Genjitsushugi Yuusha no Oukoku Saikenki - Ch. 59.1 - The Arrival of the Saint (1)

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Oh no shes by and far helped them out, and the work they do goes back into the orphanage so its not a bad thing, but its definitely something funny you can say for the religious organization that shes having kids do labor, also they dont need those skills, at least until myne got there and even going back in time to before the civil war the only thing the kids needed to know was how to clean they didnt get jobs or need skills later in life their life was taken care of for them in exchange for cleaning the temple. (ignore the fact that most lower city kids go to the forest anyways)

Then you're conflating what 'religious organization' does with what the people choose to do.

What Myne did wasn't required of her, neither by the religion nor the temple chief.
She had to get Head Priest's cooperation to figure out how to 'stay in the line' while pulling all that off. That totally scream 'the temple endorse this' right?

Also the orphans still did to learn manner and such before baptism, otherwise how else would they be taken in as apprentice after baptism? Gil was considered a problem child and not 'normal' for a reason.

And as for the other part im strictly speaking the religious organization not the religion in itself, aubs and zent as of the current pre-pub chapters dont partake or oversee any part of the religion outside of getting baptized, from the top down im referring from the sovereign high bishop all the way to the blue priest and even some grey priest in the duchy temples theres large amounts of corruption. hence the organization being corrupt overall even if theres some good people in it.

Previously you conflate Myne's actions as part of the 'religious organization' action, now you're doing the opposite and excluding the Zent/Aub actions as NOT part of it for some reason.

Great, Schrodinger's Religion: You're only part of it if it's convenient for the argument.

Like, is your criteria for 'corrupt' based on the actual religion in-story (i.e. things that go against the og doctrine or abusing it is what's corrupted) or just whatever your image of 'religious organization' is?
 
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Then you're conflating what 'religious organization' does with what the people choose to do.

What Myne did wasn't required of her, neither by the religion nor the temple chief.
She had to get Head Priest's cooperation to figure out how to 'stay in the line' while pulling all that off. That totally scream 'the temple endorse this' right?

Also the orphans still did to learn manner and such before baptism, otherwise how else would they be taken in as apprentice after baptism? Gil was considered a problem child and not 'normal' for a reason.



Previously you conflate Myne's actions as part of the 'religious organization' action, now you're doing the opposite and excluding the Zent/Aub actions as NOT part of it for some reason.

Great, Schrodinger's Religion: You're only part of it if it's convenient for the argument.

Like, is your criteria for 'corrupt' based on the actual religion in-story (i.e. things that go against the og doctrine or abusing it is what's corrupted) or just whatever your image of 'religious organization' is?
OK i realize it didnt come across as great in text form but the Myne comment from my original response was a joke, more as a if you look at this point in the most negative aspect possible its just child labor (clearly theres more to it than that, story setting and others). Obviously what she did as an apprentice blue wasnt endorsed by the high bishop and was kept under the table so it initially had no bearing to do with whether or not the church allowed it.

As for the later part of your comment again im looking at strictly the religious organization those who have signed the contract to be priests and oversee the religious ceremonies, Yes not all actions they take are bad or corrupt (even if we include Myne here as her actions are for the betterment of others) the majority of those in the organization are corrupt and if go top down from the sovereign high bishop as the head of the organization to the blue and grey priest the vast majority of them that we've seen in the story and the head 2 leaders have both been corrupt even in the setting itself with its different moral system. The leading people in it have by far from what we've seen been involved in child neglect, embezzlement, rape, forgery, and treason. The organization itself is practically at odds with and by the latest chapters, actively working against its own nation with a foreign power, if thats not corruption idk what is.
 
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uhhh bro… 😎 sorry to burst your bubble but we have SCIENTOLOGY!!! we already have a science religion no need to use actually insightful rational to prove scientific method acts as a belief system…

all jokes aside well developed post op
I was considering just leaving it with a "like" to show my application, but I couldn't.
In January or early February of this year I posted a question on Reddit. I tried to make it well thought out and phrased. I spent time and effort to research and cite when possible.
Last I checked, which was admittedly within less than forty-eight hours, the vast majority of the responses were to the effect of "I didn't bother reading your post, but here is the answer to the question I expect you asked." or even "How dare you think that I am going to read all of that."

So, I honestly really do appreciate that you actually read (at least) enough of my post to understand what I was getting at. And I appreciate your comment that it was "well developed."

I would say that you have restored my faith in "the Internet"... But I never really had that in the first place, as I know what people are like "in person" and anonymity often leads to that worsening...

So, while it may not be possible to "restore" something that didn't exist, instead, you have enhanced/elevated my faith that there are people who will seriously read (at least some of) what I write.

Post Script: some of the above could potentially be interpreted as demeaning (etc). It isn't meant to be. The words in the (parentheses) are there because it would be rude to assume all of the text was read. Particularly since I think some of it was duplicate explanations and the latter half was less coherent (and possibly somewhat painful to read because of it).

I'm human, I make assumptions, but I try not to let them drive me.
 
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As for the later part of your comment again im looking at strictly the religious organization those who have signed the contract to be priests and oversee the religious ceremonies, Yes not all actions they take are bad or corrupt (even if we include Myne here as her actions are for the betterment of others) the majority of those in the organization are corrupt and if go top down from the sovereign high bishop as the head of the organization to the blue and grey priest the vast majority of them that we've seen in the story and the head 2 leaders have both been corrupt even in the setting itself with its different moral system.

But you're using THE corrupted doctrine that separate the Zent from the church....
If anything the sovereign high bishop is ironically 'correct' in trying to get the country back to the correct way.

Which, in case you haven't noticed, is also what Myne has been doing (she's a noble who's also the high bishop)

The organization itself is practically at odds with and by the latest chapters, actively working against its own nation with a foreign power, if thats not corruption idk what is.

literally only one high bishop was working with foreign power
'the organization itself'

I think you're reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally pushing that one. I highly doubt every duchies' temple were 'in favor' of that, or that the temples were monolithic for that matter.

Also, is that truly corruption if the literal God's response was APPROVAL of said action? Because, surprise, the religion want to protect all mana-wielders, in AND out of the country.

EDIT: I think we might just have different definition of 'corrupt' for a religious organization to begin with.
 
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One counter point.
The religion in Ascendance of Bookworm.

The practice have verifiable result (better crop yield) and the gods do exist (some even make appearance)

It's ironically the people who weren't religious and tried to NOT follow the og doctrine that became the source of the slow decline.
lol like the dwemer in skyrim getting screwed over. Strangely enough stories like that are a parable on verifiable evidence, like you're seriously going to pick a fight with sky daddy when he showed up after he heard you talking shit?
 
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I was considering just leaving it with a "like" to show my application, but I couldn't.
In January or early February of this year I posted a question on Reddit. I tried to make it well thought out and phrased. I spent time and effort to research and cite when possible.
Last I checked, which was admittedly within less than forty-eight hours, the vast majority of the responses were to the effect of "I didn't bother reading your post, but here is the answer to the question I expect you asked." or even "How dare you think that I am going to read all of that."

So, I honestly really do appreciate that you actually read (at least) enough of my post to understand what I was getting at. And I appreciate your comment that it was "well developed."

I would say that you have restored my faith in "the Internet"... But I never really had that in the first place, as I know what people are like "in person" and anonymity often leads to that worsening...

So, while it may not be possible to "restore" something that didn't exist, instead, you have enhanced/elevated my faith that there are people who will seriously read (at least some of) what I write.

Post Script: some of the above could potentially be interpreted as demeaning (etc). It isn't meant to be. The words in the (parentheses) are there because it would be rude to assume all of the text was read. Particularly since I think some of it was duplicate explanations and the latter half was less coherent (and possibly somewhat painful to read because of it).

I'm human, I make assumptions, but I try not to let them drive me.
haha, no worries chief: you were correct in assuming I didn’t read it all. I read the first, second and part of the third part before I thought “this guy uses negative proofs to argue his points with clearly understandable explanations + citations versus anecdote, while also taking a global perspective which denies a western-centric viewpoint enabling for more sound discussion. he clearly thought and cared enough to write, change, and develop these thoughts, while also being courteous and concise.” and since i am an internet troll who loves to pick on people in this forum who don’t do that, it would ruin my image that i create to respond in any other way than a troll response. but genuinely, its an excellent post. i take no offense at your implication, as you explained why you thought as much. thats pretty much all that mattered there. fun reading your posts: your harsh view on yourself reflects your developed arguments, and i found them to be well developed if only difficult because they required thought in order to follow, not because you made it difficult to do so.
 
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haha, no worries chief: you were correct in assuming I didn’t read it all. I read the first, second and part of the third part before I thought “this guy uses negative proofs to argue his points with clearly understandable explanations + citations versus anecdote, while also taking a global perspective which denies a western-centric viewpoint enabling for more sound discussion. he clearly thought and cared enough to write, change, and develop these thoughts, while also being courteous and concise.” and since i am an internet troll who loves to pick on people in this forum who don’t do that, it would ruin my image that i create to respond in any other way than a troll response. but genuinely, its an excellent post. i take no offense at your implication, as you explained why you thought as much. thats pretty much all that mattered there. fun reading your posts: your harsh view on yourself reflects your developed arguments, and i found them to be well developed if only difficult because they required thought in order to follow, not because you made it difficult to do so.
I, uh, admit that I didn't recognize your post as troll-ish in any way... Hmm.

Anyway, for the benefit of anyone paying attention to my posts, and without harassing the other two who have replied to me (by "at"-ing them; should they care enough to see this, great, otherwise that's fine too), I feel the absolute need to point out that I never pushed that Science IS (a) religion but that Science could be argued as a religion.
Yes, on the most basic and fundamental "understanding" of religion, science does not fit and is effectively an antonym. But if and when one dives further into what Religion is on a global scale (by which I mean "among all factors collectively") and what most (if not all) religion have done individually, versus what Science is/has done on the same scale, it is easy to find equivalences. And that is still true if only looking at the fundamental aspects beyond individual (or collective) human usage.
As a final example (unless someone else responds to any of my posts on the matter), just look at the fervor with which people argued against my examples. To memory, which is admittedly faulty at best, only one person tried to use real evidence to argue against me, and even that was solely the dictionary "definition" for the "word" and not the meaning of the concept (big difference).

So, sorry to hijack my response to you, but I felt I needed to say those two things. I probably would have added them to a response to anyone.
 
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Proposal to instate a national religion? A very bold, if not outright audacious attempt to meddle in Friedonia's internal affairs. I've never heard of one country's emissary telling the leader of another country to adopt their religion, let alone an instance where such a thing succeeded.
Umm, the Muslim conquests after Mohammed the Prophet death? IIRC there were some successful examples of Islam adoption under the similar premise by the rulers/elites and the common people later or along with them.
 

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