Namaiki na Gal Ane wo Wakaraseru Hanashi - Ch. 3 - Rumor

[popo53414]

urahhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[shinshom]

O que eu quero dizer é que você está tentando fingir que a típica 'garota fácil', que vai a uma festa para beber com os amigos e depois decide fazer sexo com eles, é vítima de estupro.

Ela não tem medo deles e nunca teve. Eles só pedem para ela fazer algo uma vez e depois desistem. Eles não a obrigaram a beber na última vez que ela estava na festa, e no Capítulo 4, você pode ver ele desistindo imediatamente quando ela diz que não quer mais.

Na verdade ela é constantemente excluida se ela não se encaixa, e em uma sociedade coletivista, a pressão social acaba pesando em cada um e alguns fazem merda pra tentar encaixar.

Ela n é totalmente inocente, mas ainda assim vc querer defender que os caras não são estupradores por avançar nela bêbada e incapaz já é maluquice.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Na verdade ela é constantemente excluida se ela não se encaixa, e em uma sociedade coletivista, a pressão social acaba pesando em cada um e alguns fazem merda pra tentar encaixar.

Ela n é totalmente inocente, mas ainda assim vc querer defender que os caras não são estupradores por avançar nela bêbada e incapaz já é maluquice.

Ela está perfeitamente lúcida. Ela responde perguntas, agacha sem cair e diz a todos o quanto está se divertindo. Pare de fingir que as mulheres não são capazes de tomar suas próprias decisões só porque elas beberam um pouco de cerveja. Eles já se conhecem. Ela sabe exatamente pelo que eles estão lá, e ela volta e faz isso novamente sóbria.

Essa história existe porque estupro e incesto são contra os Termos de Serviço do Pixiv e dos processadores de pagamento. Então, ela também os removeu.

 

[ChibiYT]

please tell me this is the new canon and she got saved here

 

[smart_fella255]

please tell me this is the new canon and she got saved here

Alternate timeline

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

please tell me this is the new canon and she got saved here

There was nothing to save in the last timeline.

 

[Zan17]

The Author knows how to cook, he could change the story without changing the plot.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

The Author knows how to cook, he could change the story without changing the plot.

She*. And there's good reason to suspect this is the editor's idea. Since she says she's "Going to stay true to herself" in the Fanbox...

 

[jcuum]

In the pre-serial she was coerced/guilt-tripped into drinking, even after telling them she was bad with alcohol. She was also told there would only be one guy with her. They only do it with her once she's drunk. When she came back to get something she was also guilt-tripped into doing fellatio.

Yeah.... that's VERY obviously assault. Why is it even a discussion here? "Oh they didn't tie her up and gag her so it isn't rape" are you serious? Jesus christ, even two people who "consent" and do it is considered statutory rape if one person is a minor.

Anyone who thinks the pre-serial wasn't rape is either clueless about laws or has some skeletons in their closet 💀 like why even defend rape that is sus as hell.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

In the pre-serial she was coerced/guilt-tripped into drinking, even after telling them she was bad with alcohol.

Actually, unlike here, she just said she was "Bad with/didn't like this/these". It could have been the beer, the party, the smoking, or just about anything at all. She may have been uncomfortable, or plain not liked the taste, or the smell of the room, or anything. My translation very deliberately tried to keep the vagueness of what it was didn't please her, but even the vaguest English sentence is shockingly specific by Japanese standards. Despite all that, they just say "Yeah, drink up this time, yeah?" And she does.

I know you missed the implication behind the line, but if we take the other to mean she didn't like drinking or whatever, then she didn't drink the last time. And considering they just need to ask her one single time to do something and she'll do it without resistance, it implies that they outright didn't even try to get her to drink.

In the serialization, we finally find out what precisely bothers her. It turns out it's alcohol: She's not big on drinking (Or so she says).

She was also told there would only be one guy with her.

One girl. Her female friend told her it'd just be the two of them.

They only do it with her once she's drunk.

Yeah. They're all drunk. And she's into it. Half the fanbox was her using the guy beneath her as a meat dildo and telling them how much she's enjoying herself. Not to mention the "HARDER".

When she came back to get something she was also guilt-tripped into doing fellatio.

He said "Well you're being selfish" one time, then led her inside.

Yeah.... that's VERY obviously assault. Why is it even a discussion here?

Because a shocking minority of people don't know what assault is. They genuinely seem to think that a person that does something (Enthusiastically) after being asked once, without even the delusional belief on the party's part that there would be violence or some negative consequence, constitutes "rape", or "assault" or whatever.

They feel bad for the enthusiastic slut, then they work their way backwards to turn all the things they don't like into some legal problem. But the real problem is that she's a slut: The word "No" isn't in her vocabulary, but "HARDER! HARDER! THIS FEELS SO GOOD" all are.

"Oh they didn't tie her up and gag her so it isn't rape" are you serious? Jesus christ, even two people who "consent" and do it is considered statutory rape if one person is a minor.

We're not talking about a minor. In fact, she's very explicitly above the age of majority in Japan. Doubly so, since she's past 20 (Japan has a sort of first AoM at 18, then a second where you can enter contracts and stuff at 20). This is a grown-ass woman who's responsible for herself. And if all it takes to get her to inhale your dick like it's oxygen and she's in the void of space is to gently prod her into your home a single time, she, by definition, is consenting to the activity.

Anyone who thinks the pre-serial wasn't rape is either clueless about laws or has some skeletons in their closet 💀 like why even defend rape that is sus as hell.

You know the story behind the pre-ser, right? The pre-ser was the second incarnation of an incest netori sleep sex story. It was taken down for including rape and incest. She re-worked it specifically to remove both elements. That's why she's his step-sister, and why she's so enthusiastic the moment everything starts.

 

[jcuum]

Actually, unlike here, she just said she was "Bad with/didn't like this/these". It could have been the beer, the party, the smoking, or just about anything at all. She may have been uncomfortable, or plain not liked the taste, or the smell of the room, or anything. My translation very deliberately tried to keep the vagueness of what it was didn't please her, but even the vaguest English sentence is shockingly specific by Japanese standards. Despite all that, they just say "Yeah, drink up this time, yeah?" And she does.

That is exactly guilt-tripping which Japan is notorious for. People there want to keep up appearances, even if they don't want to do things. Guilt-tripping = coercion.

I know you missed the implication behind the line, but if we take the other to mean she didn't like drinking or whatever, then she didn't drink the last time. And considering they just need to ask her one single time to do something and she'll do it without resistance, it implies that they outright didn't even try to get her to drink.

Even if they let her not drink last time, they're using it as leverage this time. Using leverage is coercion, and coercing someone to do something is forcing them to do it. EVEN IF their coercion was implied at best, it is still forcing someone.

Yeah. They're all drunk. And she's into it. Half the fanbox was her using the guy beneath her as a meat dildo and telling them how much she's enjoying herself. Not to mention the "HARDER".

NEWS FLASH: Drunk men can still rape drunk women. And with the way they were speaking before she drank, it was all premeditated. They KNEW she was getting drunk that night which makes it even more rapey.

Also, "she enjoyed it" is NOT reliable when she's drunk. That is textbook rapist excuse.

He said "Well you're being selfish" one time, then led her inside.

Once again, coercion.

Because a shocking minority of people don't know what assault is. They genuinely seem to think that a person that does something (Enthusiastically) after being asked once, without even the delusional belief on the party's part that there would be violence or some negative consequence, constitutes "rape", or "assault" or whatever.

"Asked once" - in the story. There is a timeskip after drinking, for all we know they spent hours coercing her. Also it isn't delusional to think that multiple men ganging up on one girl would have negative connotations, its logical deduction.

They feel bad for the enthusiastic slut, then they work their way backwards to turn all the things they don't like into some legal problem. But the real problem is that she's a slut: The word "No" isn't in her vocabulary, but "HARDER! HARDER! THIS FEELS SO GOOD" all are.

Once again, you say "she liked it" and "she's a slut." Except she only said those things WHEN SHE WAS DRUNK. By that logic drunk car crashers and sober car crashers are exactly the same (which they aren't)

We're not talking about a minor. In fact, she's very explicitly above the age of majority in Japan. Doubly so, since she's past 20 (Japan has a sort of first AoM at 18, then a second where you can enter contracts and stuff at 20). This is a grown-ass woman who's responsible for herself. And if all it takes to get her to inhale your dick like it's oxygen and she's in the void of space is to gently prod her into your home a single time, she, by definition, is consenting to the activity.

The age thing was only an example for fucks sake. Also another news flash: "grown-ass women" can still be raped. And for the final time, guilt-tripping, coercion, and using implications are ALL still considered rape under law.

If anyone used any of the arguments you made in court, they would STILL get convicted as a rapist. And yes, this is fiction, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking the fiction does not depict rape. I'll even admit, I read similarly fucked up doujins myself, but I'm also aware enough to know that shit is illegal in real life.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

That is exactly guilt-tripping which Japan is notorious for. People there want to keep up appearances, even if they don't want to do things. Guilt-tripping = coercion.

See? Already we have the problem. "Persuasion" isn't "Coercion". People asking you to do things, especially just once, isn't people threatening you to do things. Also, it's important to draw a distinction between Pre-ser and Ser, since in Ser she:

1) Didn't know these people.
2) Took active steps to leave the situation.
3) Outright told him she wasn't comfortable with him touching her
4) Was unconscious at the end.
5) Outright stated she wanted to go home just before that.

In the Pre-Ser she:

1) Already knew these people (They're her fuck buddies).
2) Took no steps whatsoever to leave.
3) Made no attempts to resist drinking
4) Was sober enough to perform highly complex actions simultaneously: She was not only squatting while leaning back at a sharp angle, but very accurately rubbing her clit with the dude's dick, hands free... all while answering questions about how much she's enjoying herself.
5) Did 4 against the wishes of the men involved.
6) Literally shouted at full volume about how she wants more with full ahegao.

Even if they let her not drink last time, they're using it as leverage this time. Using leverage is coercion, and coercing someone to do something is forcing them to do it. EVEN IF their coercion was implied at best, it is still forcing someone.

No, it's the exact opposite of coercion. It's strong evidence that these people are respecting her will, since every single time we see them ask for anything they'll try once, maaaybe twice before giving up. This is the place where they won't accept gifts unless you ask them to take it three times. They had a whole party before, and instead of giving her shit, or excluding her, for not drinking, they just let it go and encouraged her to do it the next time.

The whole situation boiled down to:

"You're not drinking?"
"No."
"Aight. Next time, then".

And yet you're trying to use the fact that they listened to her against them because they're pointing out she didn't drink at the drinking party last time... to ask her to drink once.

NEWS FLASH: Drunk men can still rape drunk women. And with the way they were speaking before she drank, it was all premeditated. They KNEW she was getting drunk that night which makes it even more rapey.

Also, "she enjoyed it" is NOT reliable when she's drunk. That is textbook rapist excuse.

Look, if you don't think women can be held responsible for their actions, I'm all for it. As long as you can also agree that they shouldn't be able to vote, drink, drive, consent to any contracts, or sex, etc. Rights come with responsibilities. You can't be able to consent to things, then avoid responsibility when payment is due.

Because as it stands, the pre-ser featured a woman deciding to drink with her fuck buddies, then getting into a gangbang of her own free will. Yet despite all that, you think she can't be held responsible for her actions. If you think they needed to get her drunk to fuck her, you haven't been paying attention to the story.

And frankly, I don't think you care either way. She could have been sober and you'd still call it rape. Because this isn't about the facts.

Once again, coercion.

"Asked once" - in the story. There is a timeskip after drinking, for all we know they spent hours coercing her. Also it isn't delusional to think that multiple men ganging up on one girl would have negative connotations, its logical deduction.

You can't pull extra requests out of thin air to justify your position. We have an entire story proving that these people will ask her once or twice, then let it go. We have proof that she isn't afraid they'll attack, slander, confine, or otherwise harm her for rejecting their requests. From start to finish, everything they've done has hinged on the woman's consent, and the one time she says no, the story literally ends with the guy sulking about it right to her face and nothing more.

You're more afraid of one of them than she is of all of them combined.

The age thing was only an example for fucks sake. Also another news flash: "grown-ass women" can still be raped. And for the final time, guilt-tripping, coercion, and using implications are ALL still considered rape under law.

"Guilt-tripping" isn't coercive, and I don't know what "Implications" you're talking about. Are you saying "implication" in that they said something or do you mean "The Implication" like "The Implication"?

If anyone used any of the arguments you made in court, they would STILL get convicted as a rapist.

No, they'd only be convicted in a "Title IX" court. But then those would convict a ham sandwich.

"Your honor, we asked her to drink nicely, and she engaged actively in the gangbang" is a wonderful defense. If you happen to have a (legal) recording of the whole thing? My lawyer would rest his case right there with no further argumentation.

 

[smart_fella255]

coercion

Use of physical force and deception are the only things which can reasonably be considered coercion.

 

[0Zion]

I just realized it's the web comic. Hahaha. The author put more story to this. It's kind of interesting.

 

[jcuum]

Okay I concede. I was definitely tired when I was arguing and now I see my responses were more emotional than logical.

But even though I will admit my points were flawed, I still stand by my main belief. I still think the dudes were rapey and that it wasn't 100% consensual. And for that let's just agree to disagree.

Also I would just like to say that some dudes have been convicted for doing way less (or even nothing at all) so they still definitely could've. Granted maybe not in Japan, since they seem to be very lenient on sex offenders.

 

[herbderb98]

I have no confidence in Egaki Numa making a good story but they can always prove me wrong

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Okay I concede. I was definitely tired when I was arguing and now I see my responses were more emotional than logical.

Takes a big man to admit he made a mistake. Mad respect. Though you could have responded to me, at least. xD

But even though I will admit my points were flawed, I still stand by my main belief. I still think the dudes were rapey and that it wasn't 100% consensual. And for that let's just agree to disagree.

There's no "agree to disagree" here; That's the objectively correct stance. Egaki wanted us to feel bad for her so she could have a wholesome "correction" story, since the rape "correction" one was against TOS. So she made FMC visibly uncomfortable at this party with her "friends" that she was lured to. But between the TOS, and her own desire to make porn, she tried to have her cake and eat it too by making the ostensibly-shy-and-meek FMC suddenly actually be an incorrigible whore in the Fanbox, where most people wouldn't find out that the entire premise of the story's been undermined.

The problem isn't that they weren't rapey, it's that they were framed like that, then the whole framing got utterly shit on the moment we found out she was 300% into it: There is no consistent characterization for anyone. Had she just stayed uncomfortable but compliant like in the latest Fanbox, we'd still be able to talk about how this whole situation is rapey. And if they'd done more than wait for her consent, there would be no argument about how disgusting they are.

Also I would just like to say that some dudes have been convicted for doing way less (or even nothing at all) so they still definitely could've. Granted maybe not in Japan, since they seem to be very lenient on sex offenders.

I don't doubt that there are, but that's a bad thing. Imagine getting into such an enthusiastic gangbang, then ending up in prison because the girl regretted being a whore.

 

[jcuum]

@BuyVelomobiles
My bad, forgot @s were a thing and I didn't wanna have to quote a long msg.

Anyway I do agree that everyone's problems with the original story stem from the author's inconsistent writing (common occurrence for these types of manga). I will admit I got the pre-serial and serial fuckboys mixed up. Hopefully author learns from her mistakes and does a more solid characterization this time around.

 

[zdude18]

please tell me this is the new canon and she got saved here

On the fanbox post from last friday she got raped again.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

On the fanbox post from last friday she got raped again.

You should probably point out that it's not canon.