Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2019
- Messages
- 60
Is this gonna be one of those things I have to consciously ignore comments on? Each few chapters had a number of people pissing themselves over the littlest of things that it's kind of worrying....
Ogami Tsumiki to Kinichijou - Vol. 1 Ch. 5 - Tsumiki and Senga
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2019
- Messages
- 60
After seeing numerous bad-faith discussions on here and Twitter, I realize that many losers don't seem to realize Shounen and Shoujo are, by definition, demographic terms. One doesn't instantly "feel" like another because they used a trope commonly found in both, that's just stupid and close-minded.
Makes me think some just have a really low intake of Shounen SOLs, everything about this has been in-line with those for the most part.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
- Messages
- 267
You can avoid the comments without having to tell everyone- nobody asked. Also, people are not pissing themselves and it clearly is not little things with how people ALL OVER THE WORLD reacted, not just japan. That DOES mean SOMETHING.
People like you make me mad- people that shit on others for no reason and then go "LOL this is good why everyone mad?? Fuck off I like this and this is good and you all suck and are wrong. Why? Because it is."
Now, people insulting, threatening or being in any other way "bad-faith" is a no-go. 100% behind you on that one. But 90% of the comments are people, righfully, properly commenting on how they feel (mostly uncomfortable, annoyed, disappointed and deceived with how the first 2 chapters baited them into reading) using actual arguements. Pretty much NOBODY is crying "NTR WAA CANCEL THIS". Peeps are actually talking about how this was a poor decision and terrible writing by, for example, CHANGING CHARACTERIZATIONS AFTER 3 CHAPTERS WHEN THEY ONLY GOT ESTABLISHED. Factual things that factually can be explained. That really DID HAPPEN.
Really good arguements, which also counter your "this is Shounen/Shoujo so there will be dem tropes and yadayada", are e.g. that the author was just starting out complex world building uncharacteristically for the average Shoujo and went straight to introducing a "love rival" who was allowed to do something really intimate to FL in front of ML (Shoujo), out of her own volition, completely sacking FL's character that was previously established the first 2 chapters. The "love rival" then got almost 3 whole chapters dedicated to him and his "development"- almost more than any of the mains got. We got bare minimum "romance" panels between the mains which mostly felt forced and, as mentioned by others, like damage control- as did the random, sudden and huge change of character for the "love rival" just one chapter later. That is characterization. A fact. He can be analyzed and he was completely overhauled after a singular chapter after huge backlash. A single chapter for that kind of "growth" or "development" is insane- more so 2 chapters in after introductions.
People are annoyed and feel betrayed because this whole manga pulled a bait and switch. It is completely different than the first 2 chapters. A fact. Do you want to read a Teletubbies story that, after 2 chapters, randomly turns into a gory slaughter-fest? It is not quite on that harsh of a level, clearly but that is quite literally what happened here. People wanted a deeper than normal story (which was teased) and got a reverse-harem beginning randomly mid sentence.
You say everything is in-line with the average and mediocre Shoujo/Shounen but that is the problem. It was not at the start.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2019
- Messages
- 60
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2020
- Messages
- 49
I think what it is is that the people who are so burned by their own expectations not being met, you aren't wrong to feel that way... but I think a lot of how it's put is evoking a response of "Oh. You are mismanaging your expectations."
Like when you see a character's third appearance reveal more about the character that changes how you look at the character, and think "Wow this is a complete reversal" and not "Oh, here's more depth to this character", you aren't wrong to feel slighted but people will try to push back that you should think it's the second thing, not the first. It's... I feel like some people have been going into this, at chapter three and since, actively hostile? That's not everyone who is critical, there's plenty of criticism that's fair or that I think hinges on a disagreeable interpretation—but "I read it differently" is not "They read it wrong", that doesn't mean it's unreasonable. Ultimately, if the story came off to you as bad, that's a failing of the story to reach you properly, and you're welcome to complain about it.
But I think in trying to say factually there are problems and you need to acknowledge that they are problems even if you don't care about them, people keep showing that they've gone in looking to find more evidence for the fact it is bad, after one thing they didn't like happened. I don't imagine that's on purpose, generally, more of a heightened alertness after one problem... But I think that way of reading something will actively make the experience worse in kind of a self-fulfilling problem type way? (Unless you enjoy hating on the work, in which case it's a most fun way to read it, but that doesn't seem to be the people commenting negatively here.)
(And there is absolutely the counterpart where you go into something and contort everything and anything that happens into evidence that this is the greatest story ever... But that seems a fairly pleasant way to be systematically wrong about a work. At least if you stick with enjoying it and not delve into arguing about it forever, but alas seeing people doing the latter is how I know such readings of fiction are possible...)
Ultimately there's not really anything to do but argue over particulars if one is interested in doing that. I think the instinct, on either 'side', to respond to a vague or general sentiment with "You're wrong because you're ignoring/misunderstanding X, Y, and Z" is, while understandably human, pretty fundamentally misguided.
I like silly pointless arguments with zero stakes and long drawn-out discussions of particular points because I am That Kind Of Nerd, but I do worry a bit that this will be arguments forever instead of appreciating the manga or having discussions about how it raises and handles ideas. And that'd be a shame.
Like when you see a character's third appearance reveal more about the character that changes how you look at the character, and think "Wow this is a complete reversal" and not "Oh, here's more depth to this character", you aren't wrong to feel slighted but people will try to push back that you should think it's the second thing, not the first. It's... I feel like some people have been going into this, at chapter three and since, actively hostile? That's not everyone who is critical, there's plenty of criticism that's fair or that I think hinges on a disagreeable interpretation—but "I read it differently" is not "They read it wrong", that doesn't mean it's unreasonable. Ultimately, if the story came off to you as bad, that's a failing of the story to reach you properly, and you're welcome to complain about it.
But I think in trying to say factually there are problems and you need to acknowledge that they are problems even if you don't care about them, people keep showing that they've gone in looking to find more evidence for the fact it is bad, after one thing they didn't like happened. I don't imagine that's on purpose, generally, more of a heightened alertness after one problem... But I think that way of reading something will actively make the experience worse in kind of a self-fulfilling problem type way? (Unless you enjoy hating on the work, in which case it's a most fun way to read it, but that doesn't seem to be the people commenting negatively here.)
(And there is absolutely the counterpart where you go into something and contort everything and anything that happens into evidence that this is the greatest story ever... But that seems a fairly pleasant way to be systematically wrong about a work. At least if you stick with enjoying it and not delve into arguing about it forever, but alas seeing people doing the latter is how I know such readings of fiction are possible...)
Ultimately there's not really anything to do but argue over particulars if one is interested in doing that. I think the instinct, on either 'side', to respond to a vague or general sentiment with "You're wrong because you're ignoring/misunderstanding X, Y, and Z" is, while understandably human, pretty fundamentally misguided.
I like silly pointless arguments with zero stakes and long drawn-out discussions of particular points because I am That Kind Of Nerd, but I do worry a bit that this will be arguments forever instead of appreciating the manga or having discussions about how it raises and handles ideas. And that'd be a shame.
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 2,216
It's published in Weekly Shounen Sunday, not in shoujo magazine. Those aren't genres.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2023
- Messages
- 2,179
Its about target demografic and reverse harem genre or female centric love triangles hardly counts as shounen imo
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 2,216
Your feefees don't decide what is shounen/seinen/shoujo/josei. Magazine/imprint is only actual label and it doesn't have to do with genre, tone or plot.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2023
- Messages
- 2,179
You sound upset
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 2,216
Not as much as selfinserts.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2023
- Messages
- 2
Well, I guess you want all romcoms to be all the same. If the guy doesn't surround himself with pretty girls your head will explode, I guess. Did you stop liking the manga? Don't read it! I will continue reading it because I find the development of the characters very interesting. And well, there is no problem in a love triangle in a shonen, if that damages your weak manhood that is your problem.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2023
- Messages
- 147
How to become vampire
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2023
- Messages
- 9,950
Tadano also gets cucked.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2020
- Messages
- 845
Don't do that face on the last page tsumiki, that's lewd.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2020
- Messages
- 845
In all honesty. I believe we should have more stories that do this kind of thing. Not to piss off people with a "one track mind". But to expose them to things that they find difficult to face. We have some real...hrm,fearmongers inside the anime community. Real inflexible. Easily spooked.
Or simply put: You can only improve reading comprehension, by reading 📚 lol
Similar threads
