Ogami Tsumiki to Kinichijou - Vol. 2 Ch. 14 - Yutaka-kun and Senga-kun

[mug3n]

They sniff each other's buttholes probably

They tell to one another who's a good husband and wife with progressively high pitched voices and they start to wag the tail and move in circles

 

[UnluckyGrape]

I think the vamp kinda redeemed himself a bit this chapter.
Also is he BI, because I'm getting some Bi vibes

Thanks everyone at Emergency Tsumiki Committee for the amazing translation

If you're vampire characters aren't even Bi passing, are they even Vampires?

 

[Satsuki-Nada]

God damn it, that smile at the end caught me off guard

 

[Outflanks10]

If you're vampire characters aren't even Bi passing, are they even Vampires?

True just look at Twilight lol 😂

 

[fachrystrife]

So if you have temptation powers, goverment throws you at the end of the blood pack supply line just because you can just seduce people and get blood anyway? Do the families of the students (or public in general) aware of this rule lol?

Ikr they can scam people with that ability.

 

[flannan]

So the dude actually has some supernatural strength to go along with his other vampire abilities? Nice.

Apparently, he is the kind of vampire who can spend blood like mana. And he could use it to power-up his physical strength, temporarily displaying much more strength than normally possible.

I don't see a problem with Yutaka sighing though and to be honest I don't see where Senga is going from and for with all the talk. Also, why would Senga not participate in tug of war? I thought he was "everybody's Senga" and running away isn't really what an everybody's person would do.

Guess I have reading comprehension problem. Brb gonna reread the chapter.

It's not about Yutaka sighing. It's about Yutaka employing a completely different "face" to talk on the phone.

He was "everybody's Senga" in a romantic meaning. Not that he's actually going to be a handyman or anything.

 

[Troquantary]

I really wish this chapter came sooner and explored Senga's character for a longer time. You can see the shades of effective societal drama in chapter 3, where their cultural values clash, but all the chapters since reinforced the idea that the neck bite was out of the ordinary. If his transformation from a cynical pragmatist took more than a chapter it would feel like an effective bit of premeditated writing. But as it is, he was effectively wasted on emotional drama instead - it feels really uncomfortable that most comments on him now reduce him to a bad character when he feels threatening to the main relationship, or a good character when he feels supportive of it.

Ikr they can scam people with that ability.

I actually think I need to belabor this point, because this might be the crux of what made his recharacterization fall flat for me. Any kind of mind control power in fiction needs to be handled carefully, because it's a deeply unethical thing to do to people, even at the level of suggestion. And no sane government would encourage somebody to use it or die. The sheer amount of societal strife this would cause is staggering if you give it even a cursory thought and is very strange to see in a series that focuses on the idea of monsters integrating with humans. Its absurdity is what makes it feel like a justification, rather than a reasonable rationale behind his initial appearance and that in turn just unravels the feeling that I'm witnessing the natural growth of a character - i dislike few things more than the heavy hand of an author. I wonder how everyone else feels about this though.

 

[salmoi]

Or, you know, it wasn't reader feedback and just the way it was planned by the author to show the differences between Humans and Genjin, which is used to spur character development later on.

And some ridiculously immature people with fragile egos couldn't handle it.

You and I are just assuming thing. You assume that it's planned from the start with your whatever reason and I assume that it's a readers feedback with my whatever reason.

In my case, vampires can drink blood from an arm, can drink blood from a dudes, can have a blood pack to help with food, so why it has never been mentioned about it before? And with so many thing that shown in this chapter is something that help cover up what it has been criticized by readers since chapter 3, both from Japan and foreign.

I think the people who came out to criticize didn't have a problem with NTR itself. It's just that this word is very easy to use, so we see people using it everywhere and people who use it sometime not fully understanding the meaning of it. Or people that want to explain what they think? But can't explain it properly, so they used the word that most accurately described their feelings at that time and it is NTR.

I think this comment is a good example for those who have a problems with this series.

It felt like a conga line of attempts to make him more likeable, which at best retcon some of his initial qualities and at worst feel like they damage the worldbuilding. Like christ, the idea that the government would imply support for the idea that vampires should use power of suggestion on humans to get blood is ludicrous.
In general, I feel like the worst moments of the manga stem from a lack of forethought on the author's part, specifically about how monster people would be integrated into human society. Biting people on the neck has a whole slew of problems associated with it. Like, I understand a light romantic manga doesn't wanna delve into the subject of bloodborne diseases, or infection, but they have openly talked about how the neck is a pretty vulnerable part of the human body. Biting somebody there can really fuck them up. This is what made the drama in chapter 3 feel so weirdly forced and mired in the subtext of manufactured jealousy. Letting somebody bite your neck is not a matter of knowledge, it's something you instinctively and reflexively avoid letting strangers do and a society that tries integrating vampires would probably have tackled that topic with some degree of priority.

Apologies for the long comment. I want to explain to both sides that they have their owns reasons and we should respect that. Now I only see people coming to diss each other in the comments section. It looks so very childish to me. Hope you understand.

 

[clac]

I get that the author really trying to push that "redemption" after that NTR bait cancer trash chapter but tbh now it's just too much.

It won't get the readers that dropped back anyway so please start focusing more on the 2 main characters from now on & leave that whole disaster behind.

 

[KanzakiYuu]

Apparently, he is the kind of vampire who can spend blood like mana. And he could use it to power-up his physical strength, temporarily displaying much more strength than normally possible.

It's not about Yutaka sighing. It's about Yutaka employing a completely different "face" to talk on the phone.

He was "everybody's Senga" in a romantic meaning. Not that he's actually going to be a handyman or anything.

I thought it was because of the sigh. But really though, that 'creepy' wasn't necessary imo.

About Senga, I noticed after rereading the chapter that the reason he doesn't want to participate is because he gets anemic due to the small amount of blood from the package. Still, would've been better to tell his classmates about it though.

 

[Hicleric]

I really wish this chapter came sooner and explored Senga's character for a longer time. You can see the shades of effective societal drama in chapter 3, where their cultural values clash, but all the chapters since reinforced the idea that the neck bite was out of the ordinary. If his transformation from a cynical pragmatist took more than a chapter it would feel like an effective bit of premeditated writing. But as it is, he was effectively wasted on emotional drama instead - it feels really uncomfortable that most comments on him now reduce him to a bad character when he feels threatening to the main relationship, or a good character when he feels supportive of it.


I actually think I need to belabor this point, because this might be the crux of what made his recharacterization fall flat for me. Any kind of mind control power in fiction needs to be handled carefully, because it's a deeply unethical thing to do to people, even at the level of suggestion. And no sane government would encourage somebody to use it or die. The sheer amount of societal strife this would cause is staggering if you give it even a cursory thought and is very strange to see in a series that focuses on the idea of monsters integrating with humans. Its absurdity is what makes it feel like a justification, rather than a reasonable rationale behind his initial appearance and that in turn just unravels the feeling that I'm witnessing the natural growth of a character - i dislike few things more than the heavy hand of an author. I wonder how everyone else feels about this though.

That's a fair criticism of the quality of the story's characterizations, for better and worse. It's true that they are not that deep...from an objective perspective. Within the cute fuzzy SoL genre, depth of characterization tends to take second fiddle to cute antics (which this series excels at) and the audience is expected to give a pass to the less rational parts of the world--as applied here, the human-world logic of laws and "common sense" that precludes the participation of genjin in society. Mind influencing powers stand out, sure, but so would invisibility (Invisible Friend's clothing is presented as a cute character quirk, not a legal requirement), flight (air travel hazard much? Or danger to the pedestrians below?), petrification (seriously...Hebisono's glasses would have to be surgically implanted before she'd be allowed within any distance of a school)...the list would apply to pretty much every nonhuman out there. Consequently, the reader is presented with a choice: ignore/embrace the logical fallacies, lest the worldbuilding fall apart, or let it interfere with the enjoyment of the story for no particular benefit. If the world becomes internally inconsistent, I might say differently, but here the genjin are present as largely benign (c.f. that whole human-eating throwaway in the first chapter) who don't use their abilities to try to hurt others. It's a fundamentally optimistic look at humanity society that largely requires a suspension of disbelief about why we have laws in the first place. But once that belief is suspended, the overall lack of concern about genjin abilities becomes part of the series's charm. Consequently, I don't find the lack of control over Senga's abilities all that surprising, and honestly, with the strength he shows in this chapter the government has an even better reason not to supply him with blood.

With that said, a story with good characterization will stand out for precisely that quality; but in corollary a lack of depth doesn't defeat an otherwise good story. This particular series relies more on "wouldn't it be cute if xyz" antics than any particular depth of character, at this time. Tsumiki and Yutaka are relatively blank slates, but that helps them become the audience POV character. Senga, on the other hand, is a side character serving as a comedic foil and motivator for personal growth for our lovable MCs, so there is a compelling storytelling reason to dispose of his particular character evolution quickly so the focus can remain on them. Would it be great to see a longer set of chapters devoted to his POV and growth? Absolutely, same as (second best) girl Hebisono. Would it make the story better? Debatable. I'm with you that turning him into best guy friend should have come a bit earlier. Maybe before the sick at home chapter.

I'm going to caveat my conclusions by noting that I have zero visceral reaction to shedding blood, so I may not fully be able to appreciate why those who do have that sort of reaction to blood as something grotesque/intimate may feel differently about Senga as a whole. I think there's some sort of carryover from "ew, drinking blood" that affects how he's perceived. I'm a cancer survivor and have plenty of experience, er, sharing my blood with the world, so I'm with Tsumiki on this one. It's just blood. You'll heal and laugh about it later.

Ultimately, the story is designed to be a fundamentally optimistic look at embracing our differences, so read it from that perspective and all the flaws about how Senga has been used thus far should fall away.

 

[mug3n]

I think this comment is a good example for those who have a problems with this series.

I'm sorry, but that's just rationalizing the collective temper trantrum people had because the protagonist imagined a flustered face in the context of her being bit. It's not "they said NTR because they didn't have any way to express it", they thought it was a cheating on the MC moment. If the author still went to that panel but instead of the neck was the arm it would be the same outcome, and you can go back to the chapter and most comments hooting and hollering "NTR" without any context of what you said.

And that doesn't invalidate what some people in this thread has said about the character handling and worldbuilding, those are valid criticisms, and came later because that was in the literal third chaper. But to make that the core reason of the original drama 3 months ago is simply not true.

 

[Troquantary]

That's a fair criticism of the quality of the story's characterizations, for better and worse. It's true that they are not that deep...from an objective perspective. Within the cute fuzzy SoL genre, depth of characterization tends to take second fiddle to cute antics (which this series excels at) and the audience is expected to give a pass to the less rational parts of the world--as applied here, the human-world logic of laws and "common sense" that precludes the participation of genjin in society. Mind influencing powers stand out, sure, but so would invisibility (Invisible Friend's clothing is presented as a cute character quirk, not a legal requirement), flight (air travel hazard much? Or danger to the pedestrians below?), petrification (seriously...Hebisono's glasses would have to be surgically implanted before she'd be allowed within any distance of a school)...the list would apply to pretty much every nonhuman out there. Consequently, the reader is presented with a choice: ignore/embrace the logical fallacies, lest the worldbuilding fall apart, or let it interfere with the enjoyment of the story for no particular benefit. If the world becomes internally inconsistent, I might say differently, but here the genjin are present as largely benign (c.f. that whole human-eating throwaway in the first chapter) who don't use their abilities to try to hurt others. It's a fundamentally optimistic look at humanity society that largely requires a suspension of disbelief about why we have laws in the first place. But once that belief is suspended, the overall lack of concern about genjin abilities becomes part of the series's charm. Consequently, I don't find the lack of control over Senga's abilities all that surprising, and honestly, with the strength he shows in this chapter the government has an even better reason not to supply him with blood.

With that said, a story with good characterization will stand out for precisely that quality; but in corollary a lack of depth doesn't defeat an otherwise good story. This particular series relies more on "wouldn't it be cute if xyz" antics than any particular depth of character, at this time. Tsumiki and Yutaka are relatively blank slates, but that helps them become the audience POV character. Senga, on the other hand, is a side character serving as a comedic foil and motivator for personal growth for our lovable MCs, so there is a compelling storytelling reason to dispose of his particular character evolution quickly so the focus can remain on them. Would it be great to see a longer set of chapters devoted to his POV and growth? Absolutely, same as (second best) girl Hebisono. Would it make the story better? Debatable. I'm with you that turning him into best guy friend should have come a bit earlier. Maybe before the sick at home chapter.

I'm going to caveat my conclusions by noting that I have zero visceral reaction to shedding blood, so I may not fully be able to appreciate why those who do have that sort of reaction to blood as something grotesque/intimate may feel differently about Senga as a whole. I think there's some sort of carryover from "ew, drinking blood" that affects how he's perceived. I'm a cancer survivor and have plenty of experience, er, sharing my blood with the world, so I'm with Tsumiki on this one. It's just blood. You'll heal and laugh about it later.

Ultimately, the story is designed to be a fundamentally optimistic look at embracing our differences, so read it from that perspective and all the flaws about how Senga has been used thus far should fall away.

I think that the question of which parts of the story should or should not be thought of is context sensitive. It depends on how much it matters to what you're reading. The ramifications of the monsters and their abilities are easy to dismiss because for the most part, they don't matter. But Senga's example matters because ostensibly, it's the entire root cause of his behavior. It's important. If it feels phony, it becomes invalidating.

I also disagree with the idea that fluffly writing and good worldbuilding can't coexist, those things are not mutually exclusive, good writing accomplishes both without compromise. I don't really think the writing in this series is all that strong though. In fact I think it's kinda bad. A thing that jumped out at me earlier today that I didn't recognize immediately is how unfitting the end of this chapter is given the themes of this manga, for example.

Senga has a negative, cynical worldview, assuming nobody does good things without expecting something in return. Over the course of the chapter he is shown unconditional kindness by somebody he assumes he wronged. Offering him blood shows that Yutaka has grown as a person, it ties into the supposed themes of interspecies cooperation and is honestly very uplifting. Or it would be, if Senga accepted. Bizarrely, he refuses stating he decided he won't drink the blood of his friends, or the people precious to them anymore. This reframes the act as something bad, that you wouldn't do to your friends. It makes little sense from either a practical or thematic standpoint and throws the narrative of cultural miscommunication from chapter 3 under a bus - the manga now states that what happened there was explicitly to his knowledge, a faux pas. It's somewhat unfair, but what it really parses as is the author saying "Sorry, he knows better, I promise he will never do it again.", entirely at the expense of burning through his character development in a single chapter and leaving it on a note that removes the potential nuance there might have been.

And that's kinda the vital part of it, the neck of the problem if you will. He was very unwisely introduced as a plot device to facilitate romantic tension and reader engagement, first and foremost. It might not even had been a big problem, if it didn't run against prior characterization, or were framed better. The manga goes to great lengths to retroactively address that it's weird to let somebody go for your neck, but it never adresses why it happens in the first place, because there is no good answer. I have seen comments that argued that it was nuanced writing - Yutaka misinterpreting something that is not a big deal and honest to god, it could have been that at the time, but the writing now retroactiely argues against it and that's something of a shame.

I agree with the idea that the manga should simply move on and remain fluffy and anodyne, but that also feels like such a condescending statement. God knows I can openly describe a lot of manga I greatly enjoyed in the past as garbage. And there is no such thing as an invalid opinion, or a wrong way to enjoy something. I know the series has effortlessly attractive designs and, for the most part, maintains a safe and numbing atmosphere and for many people that's enough. But I feel it's important to realize flaws within the things one likes and if nothing else, discussing manga is what this forum's for. I think this manga could have done the things it did better and one of them, sadly, is Senga.

 

[winterume]

you could make a new novel out of these comments

 

[sarusa]

I don't see a problem with Yutaka sighing though and to be honest I don't see where Senga is going from and for with all the talk. Also, why would Senga not participate in tug of war? I thought he was "everybody's Senga" and running away isn't really what an everybody's person would do.

Guess I have reading comprehension problem. Brb gonna reread the chapter.

Senga is creeped out by Yutaka being super pumped up extrovert (out of char) to 'siiiiggghhh' at the drop of a hat. From what he's seen of Yutaka it is kinda creepy, and he has very little filter. More on this in Ch15.

And then remember what Senga said before he changed his mind - every personal interaction is profit and loss. Being the playboy everyone's Senga is just so he can get blood. He would normally skip out on tug of war because participating in tug of war gives him very little personally (as far as he'd considered) and makes him anemic, and the chicks attracted to him would probably just find it even hotter for him to skip out anyhow ('oh he's such a moody and sensitive bad boy! squeeee!'). As seen here he's only doing it for The Power of Friendship (TM).

 

[KLGChaos]

All this comment section does is remind me that a good portion of otakus are extremely pathetic people who see women as objects to be owned and can't stand any thought of "impurity", even with FICTIONAL characters, to the point they get unreasonably angry over it. Heck, aome go as far as burning books and making death threats to the authors.

It's honestly why people hate us. It's just so... sad.

 

[fachrystrife]

I really wish this chapter came sooner and explored Senga's character for a longer time. You can see the shades of effective societal drama in chapter 3, where their cultural values clash, but all the chapters since reinforced the idea that the neck bite was out of the ordinary. If his transformation from a cynical pragmatist took more than a chapter it would feel like an effective bit of premeditated writing. But as it is, he was effectively wasted on emotional drama instead - it feels really uncomfortable that most comments on him now reduce him to a bad character when he feels threatening to the main relationship, or a good character when he feels supportive of it.


I actually think I need to belabor this point, because this might be the crux of what made his recharacterization fall flat for me. Any kind of mind control power in fiction needs to be handled carefully, because it's a deeply unethical thing to do to people, even at the level of suggestion. And no sane government would encourage somebody to use it or die. The sheer amount of societal strife this would cause is staggering if you give it even a cursory thought and is very strange to see in a series that focuses on the idea of monsters integrating with humans. Its absurdity is what makes it feel like a justification, rather than a reasonable rationale behind his initial appearance and that in turn just unravels the feeling that I'm witnessing the natural growth of a character - i dislike few things more than the heavy hand of an author. I wonder how everyone else feels about this though.

The author should read/watch interview with monster girl tbh.
Because the premise kinda similiar but interview with monster girls has good world building and consistent

 

[flannan]

The author should read/watch interview with monster girl tbh.
Because the premise kinda similiar but interview with monster girls has good world building and consistent

Everybody should read or watch it, because it's that good. Especially everybody interested in monstergirls.
But when it comes to worldbuilding, Centaur's Worries is great.

 

[Sebpxz200]

You get over it, please, lmao. And stop calling others fags. Seems most readers (myself included) enjoy this manga now even if it is a bit different from the beginning. And this was some NICE character development. Lovely dynamics. Great chapter and vampire-kun is great, too.

There were like 3 !NTR! dramafags and they seem to have let go - you are one of the few bringing this up again and again it seems .

More people WERE mad about it being out of character for her (she showed MASSIVE dislike towards him half a chapter before), with how the author portrayed it even tho unnecessary and how it added nothing to the great and enjoyable worldbuilding from the 2 chapters before. That WAS a proper reason to call it out.

Just 3? Go to the chapter where the incident happened and you will see dozens of people yapping over that matter that didn't even seem like ntr, just the crybabies that MUST cry over anything saw that as ntr and did the best and only they could... Complain.

 

[salmoi]

And that doesn't invalidate what some people in this thread has said about the character handling and worldbuilding, those are valid criticisms

From @Troquantary comments
He talks about the problems of worldbuilding, how forced the plot was and about how the author handling his/her own characters. At least that is what I see from his comment, But if you still think he is just rationalizing the collective temper tantrum people. Fine, if that is what you think.

It's not "they said NTR because they didn't have any way to express it", they thought it was a cheating on the MC moment. If the author still went to that panel but instead of the neck was the arm it would be the same outcome, and you can go back to the chapter and most comments hooting and hollering "NTR" without any context of what you said.

First, I didn't said that "they said NTR because they didn't have any way to express it". What I said is "They can't explain it properly" so they use the laziest way to express their feelings at that time, instead of giving a proper explanation.

Let me say that there are 3 types of people.(from what I have seen so far)
1. People who use this word all over the place without knowing anything about it.
2. People who are too lazy to explain so they use this word just to follow the flow.
3. People who openly talk about the problems and give reasonable explanations to it.

There definitely have comment hooting and hollering "NTR" without context for sure and it can't be helped, because in Chapter 3 they really felt that way, so they said it like that.
At the same time we have a people that give a valid criticisms and point out a reasonable explanation. So I don't understand why you would only focus on people who just shouted ntr without context. Instead of focusing on people who give you valid criticisms.

But to make that the core reason of the original drama 3 months ago is simply not true.

Yep, it isn't the core reason of the og drama.
Because the core reason is the author him/herself.