Otome Danshi ni Koisuru Otome - Vol. 5 Ch. 491 - Because It Was a Promise
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He recognized his mistakes and faults, tirelessly worked to fix them and made an apology from the bottom of his soul to those he failed and hurt. With proof that he meant it.
Bowed down when he realized he wouldn't be able to recover what he lost through his own actions, accepted it, and didn't insist as per the wishes of the people he hurt, people who decided to not want anything to do with him despite his efforts to make amends.
He did a lot of wrong, but he's now a better person. That's a real man there.
Bowed down when he realized he wouldn't be able to recover what he lost through his own actions, accepted it, and didn't insist as per the wishes of the people he hurt, people who decided to not want anything to do with him despite his efforts to make amends.
He did a lot of wrong, but he's now a better person. That's a real man there.
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@Midoriha
Yeah, I'm concurring with you.
I still think what he did, from what we know at least, was clearly blown out of proportion.
The guy was is a bad place, with probably a ton of stress, because the financial situation of his family was at stake.
He probably screamed and threw some tamper tantrums... but it seems he never beat anyone, he was apologetic immediately after his burst of anger and even promised to repair the bunny (which he did)...
From the reaction of the mother when he visited, I thought the past would have been much more traumatic, like he was an alcoholic and beat the mother constantly, and then one day punched or slapped the daughter, which prompter the mother to leave... but nope, he was just stressed, and instead of having his family support him, they threw him under the bus, left him and played the victim card.
And seeing how hard it seems he had to work to find them again to apologise for his behaviour, what the mother did seems pretty close to child kidnapping.
I was really emphatic with the daughter's androphobia, thinking she must have had a rough childhood.
Now I'm really sad for the dad, poor guy had it rough and people still treat him like shit.
Yeah, I'm concurring with you.
I still think what he did, from what we know at least, was clearly blown out of proportion.
The guy was is a bad place, with probably a ton of stress, because the financial situation of his family was at stake.
He probably screamed and threw some tamper tantrums... but it seems he never beat anyone, he was apologetic immediately after his burst of anger and even promised to repair the bunny (which he did)...
From the reaction of the mother when he visited, I thought the past would have been much more traumatic, like he was an alcoholic and beat the mother constantly, and then one day punched or slapped the daughter, which prompter the mother to leave... but nope, he was just stressed, and instead of having his family support him, they threw him under the bus, left him and played the victim card.
And seeing how hard it seems he had to work to find them again to apologise for his behaviour, what the mother did seems pretty close to child kidnapping.
I was really emphatic with the daughter's androphobia, thinking she must have had a rough childhood.
Now I'm really sad for the dad, poor guy had it rough and people still treat him like shit.
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For a small kid, someone ripping your plushie apart can be real traumatic..
Hell, there are far more peaceful actions that can cause traumas out there.
That said, he's definitely not what you'd call evil.
(Nor do you need to be to accidentally cause traumas, especially while under alot of stress.)
Hell, there are far more peaceful actions that can cause traumas out there.
That said, he's definitely not what you'd call evil.
(Nor do you need to be to accidentally cause traumas, especially while under alot of stress.)
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@Kaarme
No one is "born good".
We are all born neutral. It's only after we learn what is good or evil, that we can choose to be one or the other.
People become good by virtue of realizing what's bad, and making an effort to avoid it.
Sometimes we realize what's bad before we do it, and sometimes we reflect on what we did.
I mean, take a look at babies. They're thieves. They take what they can, and if they like it, they won't let it go.
They don't care whom it belongs to, or how much it's worth to the owner. To them, it's just "I want. I take. It's mine now."
And yet they aren't "evil", because they're not aware that stealing is wrong. They don't even understand the concept of "theft".
Logically, they should know better than that. If you try to take back what's yours, they obviously don't like it.
They do have a concept of ownership. They just don't realize what others might feel when they took something from them.
Thus, no one is "born good". We become good (or we don't).
No one is "born good".
We are all born neutral. It's only after we learn what is good or evil, that we can choose to be one or the other.
People become good by virtue of realizing what's bad, and making an effort to avoid it.
Sometimes we realize what's bad before we do it, and sometimes we reflect on what we did.
I mean, take a look at babies. They're thieves. They take what they can, and if they like it, they won't let it go.
They don't care whom it belongs to, or how much it's worth to the owner. To them, it's just "I want. I take. It's mine now."
And yet they aren't "evil", because they're not aware that stealing is wrong. They don't even understand the concept of "theft".
Logically, they should know better than that. If you try to take back what's yours, they obviously don't like it.
They do have a concept of ownership. They just don't realize what others might feel when they took something from them.
Thus, no one is "born good". We become good (or we don't).
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@Nolonar Well, it's a quote from Skyrim, spoken by a dragon. In that lore, dragons are born with the will to dominate all other life (which sounds pretty fitting for dragons in any Western lore). I do consider it a memorable line.
I'd have actually disagreed with what you said about being born neutral, but then you spoke about babies, and I realised you are correct. I can't say absolutely anything against that.
I'd have actually disagreed with what you said about being born neutral, but then you spoke about babies, and I realised you are correct. I can't say absolutely anything against that.
@aFFi While I think he acted in a human way and doesn't deserve to be demonized forever the way so many commenters seemed to want despite what the author was clearly doing with this character, saying 'oh he never actually hit anyone he just hurled out emotional abuse which isn't REALLY doing anything wrong he's the real victim here' isn't the right extreme to take it either.
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@affi lol you've never known emotional abuse in your entire life
just because someone doesn't lay a hand on someone else doesn't mean they can't be abusive, and lashing out emotionally or verbally rather than physically absolutely deserves long-term derision especially when it's towards a small child. don't be stupid. "but he was stressed!" is never a good excuse. If he wants to atone somehow, fine, he can be a better person elsewhere and never involve himself in the people he traumatized's lives again.
just because someone doesn't lay a hand on someone else doesn't mean they can't be abusive, and lashing out emotionally or verbally rather than physically absolutely deserves long-term derision especially when it's towards a small child. don't be stupid. "but he was stressed!" is never a good excuse. If he wants to atone somehow, fine, he can be a better person elsewhere and never involve himself in the people he traumatized's lives again.
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@Captaininvictus Actually involving them the little bit he now did was a good choice because it was the final step for Mayu in her process to get over the past that was shackling her. From a mental health point of view it's better for people to conquer their fears than to forget them. If she can now look back at her past and see a miserable man and not a boogeyman, it's much better for her.
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@kaarme sometimes sure, but causing trauma to resurface can also very much have the complete opposite effect, regardless of intent. this time it worked out, largely because mayu has an extremely reliable support literally by her side to catch her should she fall. You don't always "conquer" your fears, the mind can be an extremely irrational thing and thinking you've defeated a problem doesn't mean you won't have relapses down the road.
In this case it worked out, but confronting past sources of trauma and bringing it all back up is not always a good thing. For example, Mayu was, outside of this man, getting to be pretty rehabilitated thanks to Yuki's help and support.
In this case it worked out, but confronting past sources of trauma and bringing it all back up is not always a good thing. For example, Mayu was, outside of this man, getting to be pretty rehabilitated thanks to Yuki's help and support.
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@Captaininvictus Nothing is always a good thing. However, the hypothesis is hardly esoteric. The general androphobia was the thing hampering her life greatly, so getting rid of that was the important achievement, which she had achieved aided by Yuuki, and Kei to some extent. The step-father, however, was the root cause. It's unknown whether leaving that alone would have ever caused any problems, but if it was possible to deal with it, it would be worth consideration.
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@Captaininvictus
First, who the fuck do you think you are to judge me like that... yeah, I've been victim to emotional abuse, where the hell can you find someone 30+ years old who hasn't?
My point wasn't that the guy was a fantastic father and all, but that the mother isn't really good either.
But all the blame is put on the dude, and that's bullshit.
Also, to actually be emotional abuse, it has to happen chronically. His lashing at the kid was clearly a one time thing, it could create a bit of trauma, but we can't really categorise it as "emotional abuse"...
The dude was actually sorry for his action immediately after it happened, asked for forgiveness and even promise reparation...
I grew up in a house where to cut my bullshit, my mom used to say shit like "you'll get it when you father comes home!" or "we'll see what your father has to say about it!".
My father never hit me, ever... but as a kid, I was still afraid of his wrath, and sometimes of him. As I grew older, that fear became respect... because I had time to reflect and understand him.
The girl didn't get that. She could never learn what her father actually was like when he wasn't pissed off and frustrated by things that weren't her fault, so she developed a traumatic fear of men.
And it mostly the mom's fault...
If you can judge me, I can too, right? So I surmise that you're probably one of those people who need "safe spaces", get triggered by things that don't concern them in the least and get pretty judgemental to anyone who has a different opinion than them. So, how close am I?
First, who the fuck do you think you are to judge me like that... yeah, I've been victim to emotional abuse, where the hell can you find someone 30+ years old who hasn't?
My point wasn't that the guy was a fantastic father and all, but that the mother isn't really good either.
But all the blame is put on the dude, and that's bullshit.
Also, to actually be emotional abuse, it has to happen chronically. His lashing at the kid was clearly a one time thing, it could create a bit of trauma, but we can't really categorise it as "emotional abuse"...
The dude was actually sorry for his action immediately after it happened, asked for forgiveness and even promise reparation...
I grew up in a house where to cut my bullshit, my mom used to say shit like "you'll get it when you father comes home!" or "we'll see what your father has to say about it!".
My father never hit me, ever... but as a kid, I was still afraid of his wrath, and sometimes of him. As I grew older, that fear became respect... because I had time to reflect and understand him.
The girl didn't get that. She could never learn what her father actually was like when he wasn't pissed off and frustrated by things that weren't her fault, so she developed a traumatic fear of men.
And it mostly the mom's fault...
the proof is pretty much in the next chapter, where the girl learns "he wasn't that scary after all"...
If you can judge me, I can too, right? So I surmise that you're probably one of those people who need "safe spaces", get triggered by things that don't concern them in the least and get pretty judgemental to anyone who has a different opinion than them. So, how close am I?
@aFFi
Point is, he isn't her father, that's why Mayu's mother did what she did. And it wasn't a one time only either, what we saw happening with the bunny is probably just Mayu's worst memory of him.
She may have been wrong (I'd say too hasty) but she decided to put her daughter before everything once she became too scared of him and avoid bigger problems.
Point is, he isn't her father, that's why Mayu's mother did what she did. And it wasn't a one time only either, what we saw happening with the bunny is probably just Mayu's worst memory of him.
She may have been wrong (I'd say too hasty) but she decided to put her daughter before everything once she became too scared of him and avoid bigger problems.
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@Captaininvictus
Well... I don't even know why I bother...
Yeah, you're right, that's clearly a meltdown.
Also, you're right, I don't even know what "emotional abuse" actually means.
I can't read either, nor write.
You're just almighty in your knowledge of everything, I bow to you Oh God.
Oh, and go fuck yourself. You didn't actually want a conversation, OK, I'll stop trying to talk to dumbasses who only want their "feelings" and "ideas" approved and validated.
Well... I don't even know why I bother...
Yeah, you're right, that's clearly a meltdown.
Also, you're right, I don't even know what "emotional abuse" actually means.
I can't read either, nor write.
You're just almighty in your knowledge of everything, I bow to you Oh God.
Oh, and go fuck yourself. You didn't actually want a conversation, OK, I'll stop trying to talk to dumbasses who only want their "feelings" and "ideas" approved and validated.
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