Taida na Akujoku Kizoku ni Tensei Shita Ore, Scenario wo Bukkowa Shitara Kikaku-gai no Maryoku de Saikyou ni Natta - Ch. 17 - Necessary Evil and Abso…

[Shamz]

man has the chapters always been this short? fucking i sipped my water and boom the end of chapter. Dafuk

 

[Akudia94]

Why yall keep using america as some kind of argument as if there aint 200 other countries 90% of which ended slavery without a massive civil war

and change it with modern day slavery by underpaid, no insurance, unfair contract etc. why dont you go to third world countries or like India, Pakistan, Indonesia where so many worker being exploit and living worse than slave as they are homeless and not even afford food and resorting committing crime.

war didn't happen, just crime rate goes sky high only. being rob and murder because they too poor is nothing right? at least you have freedom to live crime filled society and get to experience being rob, murder, beaten up and raped as free man. like there is no people that choose to commit crime and sent to prison just to have roof to sleep, food to eat. hummmmm...

prisoner also did job for mostly free too. that slavery right? or not? no freedom, given food, shelter, restricted freedom and must follow warder order or get hit or punished. do community work/ laborfor free too. heeeyyyy. prison is slavery. we must abolish prison.

 

[dephree]

Lmao bunch of morons thinking that one person can change the society to that extent with such speed. Go back a thousand years ago and advocate for gender equality. Better yet, advocate for gender fluidity and see what happens, lol. Now try that with something that makes them buttload of money.

 

[MrTurtleMan]

Jeez, MC's being "Okay" with slavery existing always leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, IMO it really bugs me to the point where I just can't continue some of the stories I read, it angers me further when story goes, "Oh but it's actually not as bad as you think it its!" and list reasons why it's necessary. Like dawg, it's still just slavery??? Why are you preaching this to me like it's a positive thing?? Idk, I guess I keep thinking back to the a saying floating around the internet, I'm paraphrasing here but it went something along the lines of,
"Never argue with somebody John Brown would have shot."
Is it too much to ask for an MC that just doesn't give a damn about another world's views on slavery and does what he can to abolish it?
That being said, did you guys know there's a John Brown isekai story? Go check it out if you got the time.

Hearing Americans talk about John Brown gave me the impression he was this guy that went around shooting slave owners which I thought was pretty based, then I read his wikipedia and all he did was shoot a politician and his sons (including minors) that didn't own a single slave. Not exactly someone to idolise imo.

Just because you aren't wrong, doesn't mean that you are right.
But I understand that perspective. Fixing slavery would require flipping the country's policies upside down, changing the way many products are produced, taking care of the people who would end up as a slaves in the future, while making sure that the current freed slaves would find a legal way to provide for themselves.
You can't just free them up and tell them to live however they want. Something similar was in Arslan Senki.

William the conqueror ended slavery in England without freeing a single slave, he just made it illegal to get new slaves (heavy fines, not jail time) so when the enslaved people died slavery just stopped.

Elsewhere in the West the landowners used serfdom, not chattle slavery, but this too largely fell in time as national governments centralized their authority and needed more free manpower for their armies. Slavery abolition is entirely possible by reform, but it largely revolves around transforming the nation's economy to end dependence on it as a source of labor.

Serfdom ended in the west long before slavery, serfdom ties you to land that is owned by a lord however it also means you don't pay the lord much money as most of your taxes are paid by working for the lord a certain amount (it varied but for arguments sake lets say 1 day a week). That meant that lords could make much more money by having freemen be the tenants of their land. There are even some court cases from those days where people would try and become/remain serfs for the lower taxes whereas the lords tried to make them free for the higher taxes. Russia was the only place in Europe where serfdom continued into the 19th century.

As for the "needing men for their armies" this is untrue and is proven untrue by the speech given at Agincourt by Henry the 5th.

Though I will agree that its probably not the wisest move to preach anti-nobility rhetoric in a class full of nobles. But Allen wasn't wrong there either. And a "desire to fight"? The greed and stupidity of people that will never ever step onto a battlefield have probably caused most of history's wars.

Nobility have always fought in wars, them not fighting is only something recent. Queen Elizabeth's husband Philip the duke of Edinburgh fought in the royal navy during world war 2, prince Harry fought in Iraq, John McCain fought in Vietnam, Dan Crenshaw lost an eye in Afghanistan. If you want to make a rule that you have to serve in the military to serve in public office that's fine, the Romans had that rule too but let's not pretend that no one in power has served in the military.

 

[Gilith]

Lol lot of people putting word into MC words, from what we can read here he is clearly pro slavery, he clearly said "The slave system isn't necessarily evil" not it's evil but necessary no he straight up said it's not evil, he did not said slavery is bad but we can't do anything about it with your hollow word, NO HE SAID it wasn't evil. SLAVERY IS EVIL period

 

[Sloppysloth]

I hope milk sensei is apart of the harem

 

[3turtlesinacoat]

Thanks for the chapter.
Allen can make all the justifications as to why he doesnt think abolishing the slave system is wise he wants, but he the moment he said that it "isnt necessarily evil" im out.
Also its very funny how hes like "yeah orphans ig they should just be slaves lol" to the orphan who grew up in an orphanage without the need for slavery. Like clearly there are solutions already in place, we need only expand them more.
And that whole stupid ass speech about the "desire to fight" as if its not the ones with power and authority like himself who start all the major conflicts, incredibly humorous, if nothing else

 

[Icecoldshawn01]

I don’t think we’re supposed to support the slavery part, but his view can be discussed.
When he talks about slavery, he isn’t talking about the well-known version of enslaving a particular race. He’s talking about enslaving criminals, war prisoners, and people who are too poor to provide for themselves.


So in this world, the ones enslaved are people who have no way to survive on their own. Basically the homeless, for one reason or another. Maybe they lost their breadwinner in a war and got taken in, or maybe their parents sold them instead of keeping and abusing them.


The idea is that in a world with monarchy and nobility, slavery acts as a last safety net for people who can’t provide for themselves. Yes, some owners are abusive, verbally or physically, but if they provide basic necessities like food and shelter for someone who has nothing, then it can’t be called completely evil. It’s not completely good either.


And even in our era, where everyone can connect easily, there are many harmful things happening. We don’t do anything about them because they don’t affect us directly.


So the idea behind saying “it isn’t necessarily evil” is: yes, it’s wrong, and if possible it should be removed, but we also can’t ignore the lives it might have saved, like the poor who can’t afford basic necessities.


Slavery in this context is basically like having unpaid workers. Everything depends on the owner: whether they treat them like human beings and give them more than the basics, or give them the bare minimum. It’s similar to how some workplaces today pay only minimum wage while others are willing to pay a bit more.

 

[DeOneChester]

Lmao bunch of morons thinking that one person can change the society to that extent with such speed. Go back a thousand years ago and advocate for gender equality. Better yet, advocate for gender fluidity and see what happens, lol. Now try that with something that makes them buttload of money.

If I could pull off even half the shit our GOAT Weiss could, I think I'd have a good shot lmao.

Bro literally mastered the 4 elements, then MERGED the opposing special elements into a new spell...by chapter 3.

Society is a coughing baby and he is a hydrogen bomb.

 

[Along_92]

Just because you aren't wrong, doesn't mean that you are right.
But I understand that perspective. Fixing slavery would require flipping the country's policies upside down, changing the way many products are produced, taking care of the people who would end up as a slaves in the future, while making sure that the current freed slaves would find a legal way to provide for themselves.
You can't just free them up and tell them to live however they want. Something similar was in Arslan Senki.

n dont foget half of those slave was criminal slave

 

[WillLi]

Jeez, MC's being "Okay" with slavery existing always leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, IMO it really bugs me to the point where I just can't continue some of the stories I read, it angers me further when story goes, "Oh but it's actually not as bad as you think it its!" and list reasons why it's necessary. Like dawg, it's still just slavery??? Why are you preaching this to me like it's a positive thing?? Idk, I guess I keep thinking back to the a saying floating around the internet, I'm paraphrasing here but it went something along the lines of,
"Never argue with somebody John Brown would have shot."
Is it too much to ask for an MC that just doesn't give a damn about another world's views on slavery and does what he can to abolish it?
That being said, did you guys know there's a John Brown isekai story? Go check it out if you got the time.

The thing is there is no such thing as "just slavery" there are literally at least 3 very distinct types of slavery throughout real life history that were VERY different from eachother. Slavery wasn't a perfect system, but not all slavery systems were 'evil'. And not all of them intended for people to be mistreated. But people will get mistreated regardless, even without slavery people get mistreated today in many the same ways slavery did it.

Like in ancient times there was literally slavery specifically for "my family is too poor, we will become work slaves for X years till we can get back on our feet" and the intended purpose was the kind of thing the MC was talking about, keeping people from the kinda poverty that leads to crime. And for a while it did more good than harm.

It is a very western idea to boil slavery down to the kind of slavery that the USA went through. Thing is, though the USA wasn't the only place with terrible slavery, the USA's history of slavery is almost entirely one of a kind. Even the places with bad slavery were not like the USA.

 

[WillLi]

IDK if its just my stupidity but I felt really confused for a solid moment with wtf Weiss was even talking about. IDK maybe it was the way it was shown or smthn, the whole conflict with allen from last chapter that leads into this one turns out to be about slavery? Okay, interesting I guess? maybe it could've been conveyed more clearly but then again my brain is about as smooth as a fucking polished rock so who knows

Don't let the fact it's about slavery fool you. Weiss is mad at Allen pushing idealism over realism. Allen says "this is bad we should get rid of it." without even pausing to think about what would happen if they remove that, and how to actually fix things after it's gone. Like take the "Nobles aren't needed" thing. He's talking about literally removing the government, but he has no idea for how to replace it, it's just a "It'll work out."

 

[karmsand]

Dunno why people are talking about war orphans/prisoners and such while the protagonist (or his evil alter ego?) literally said: "most slaves come from poor family children. They're born to irresponsible parents with no money... And are barely given any education on how to act" (basically implying that poor people should just go extinct if they don't want to become a slave) instead of, you know, propose to make some public education system.
Now, was he right in saying that Allen shouldn't have said what he said in a room full of nobles? Probably. Should he have said that to Allen in private? Absolutely.
Should he have said that "slavery isn't necessarily evil" and yapped to sleep Milk sensei trying to defend his stupid opinion? Fuck no.

 

[WillLi]

Slavery is inherently evil. Full stop.

Arguing the pragmatism of allowing the violation of basic human rights is just admitting you're too much of a wuss to unilaterally fuck over wealthy slave owners. Even if you have to force compliance. Even if you have to force through social programs that support the child slaves you claim are just better off that way.

So yes, Weiss is a coward. He may be strong but he's rationalizing not using his strength to stop something inherently evil.

I think a great example is Gojo from Jujutsu Kaisen. The dude is strong and leverages that strength to outright warp the politics of the world around him. The old figures are fully aware he could butcher them so his voice can cause a lot of unconventional things to occur.

Firstly, Weiss doesn't have the power to force the issue. He can't force social programs to help any one, and he doesn't have the power to take on the nobility. He literally just encountered someone he straight up can't beat. So pushing the issue and dying is the right answer according to you?

Secondly "human rights" are something we as a modern society made up. They're not real, nor are they something everyone has even today. They are simply a distillation of our modern sensibilities that we wave around to make ourselves feel better.

Thirdly, the reason slavery is so prevalent throughout history is because it is literally impossible to go past a certain level of development without slavery or assistance from another nation that is passed that stage. Too much labor needs to be done to take things from a localized farming stage into a a strong connected nation. Roads need to be built to to transport goods. You need to have absolutely massive farms, because in order to get other things done you can't afford for everyone to waste time farming for themselves. Then you have to deal with the problem of "It cost tax money to keep criminals in jail but they are giving nothing back to society at that time." Most societies are gonna want them to do something. But you also can't give them good jobs, because then you'd have everyone who gets fired intentionally getting arrested so that they can get a job.

 

[Sheza]

Jeez, MC's being "Okay" with slavery existing always leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, IMO it really bugs me to the point where I just can't continue some of the stories I read, it angers me further when story goes, "Oh but it's actually not as bad as you think it its!" and list reasons why it's necessary. Like dawg, it's still just slavery??? Why are you preaching this to me like it's a positive thing?? Idk, I guess I keep thinking back to the a saying floating around the internet, I'm paraphrasing here but it went something along the lines of,
"Never argue with somebody John Brown would have shot."
Is it too much to ask for an MC that just doesn't give a damn about another world's views on slavery and does what he can to abolish it?
That being said, did you guys know there's a John Brown isekai story? Go check it out if you got the time.

hes not saying he approves slavery, hes pissed that weiss is idealistically spouting "slavery is bad" without offering real solutions to it. learn to read properly with your mind instead of your emotions

 

[WillLi]

Dunno why people are talking about war orphans/prisoners and such while the protagonist (or his evil alter ego?) literally said: "most slaves come from poor family children. They're born to irresponsible parents with no money... And are barely given any education on how to act" (basically implying that poor people should just go extinct if they don't want to become a slave) instead of, you know, propose to make some public education system.
Now, was he right in saying that Allen shouldn't have said what he said in a room full of nobles? Probably. Should he have said that to Allen in private? Absolutely.
Should he have said that "slavery isn't necessarily evil" and yapped to sleep Milk sensei trying to defend his stupid opinion? Fuck no.

Because the word 'slavery' got mentioned and most people who complain in these discussions don't even realize there were multiple types of slavery and they can't see anything other than that.

 

[Psychronia]

Slavery in isekai is always a messy subject, but I vastly prefer discussing it to rolling with it.

Yeah, there are a lot of systemic reasons slavery can't be abolished. You could be the strongest person in the world and you couldn't do jack to fix the system without sacrificing lives in the same magnitude as the number of slaves that exist. You could be the emperor with the absolute most authority in the world and the result would still be the same.

Abolishing slavery without collateral damage, even if you ignore the damage done to the slave owners, takes an immense amount of preparation, social change, technological innovation, and especially money.

 

[WillLi]

Lol lot of people putting word into MC words, from what we can read here he is clearly pro slavery, he clearly said "The slave system isn't necessarily evil" not it's evil but necessary no he straight up said it's not evil, he did not said slavery is bad but we can't do anything about it with your hollow word, NO HE SAID it wasn't evil. SLAVERY IS EVIL period

"Not evil" doesn't mean "I agree with it". This is what is wrong with western politics and group labels. You think that only 2 options exist in the world, either you support something or you don't. "Good" and "Bad" are not the only labels, the world isn't binary.

 

[MagnaDrake]

I don’t think we’re supposed to support the slavery part, but his view can be discussed.
When he talks about slavery, he isn’t talking about the well-known version of enslaving a particular race. He’s talking about enslaving criminals, war prisoners, and people who are too poor to provide for themselves.


So in this world, the ones enslaved are people who have no way to survive on their own. Basically the homeless, for one reason or another. Maybe they lost their breadwinner in a war and got taken in, or maybe their parents sold them instead of keeping and abusing them.


The idea is that in a world with monarchy and nobility, slavery acts as a last safety net for people who can’t provide for themselves. Yes, some owners are abusive, verbally or physically, but if they provide basic necessities like food and shelter for someone who has nothing, then it can’t be called completely evil. It’s not completely good either.


And even in our era, where everyone can connect easily, there are many harmful things happening. We don’t do anything about them because they don’t affect us directly.


So the idea behind saying “it isn’t necessarily evil” is: yes, it’s wrong, and if possible it should be removed, but we also can’t ignore the lives it might have saved, like the poor who can’t afford basic necessities.


Slavery in this context is basically like having unpaid workers. Everything depends on the owner: whether they treat them like human beings and give them more than the basics, or give them the bare minimum. It’s similar to how some workplaces today pay only minimum wage while others are willing to pay a bit more.

In conclusion: They have the American Prison Industry.

 

[Sheza]

at everyone who says stuff like "well you can't expect Weiss to change the entire system, he's saying that because it's hard to overturn it"
Even if he hasn't the power to overturn it, he can still express the opinion that slavery is evil. He could then explain why it's hard to abolish in the current economic situation or whatever.

But no, he chose to say "It's not necessarily evil". I just hope that we as the readers aren't supposed to support his views there.

he said that because of how the slavery system takes in orphans and houses them instead of letting them turn to a life of crime that would lead to more problems for other people and would perpetuate a cycle. See how its not necessarily evil?