The Impregnable Demon King's Castle and the Expelled Black Mage of the Hero's Party - Vol. 1 Ch. 1.4
- Thread starter MangaDex
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problem of not being able to see the debuff, if everyone can see the enemy stacked with debuff it would be different story
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Bruh debuffs are so helpful, imagine a enemy that keeps increasing its defense to the point you can't even damage it.
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To be fair, a lot of JRPGs make debuff stacking trivial vs regular mobs and (almost)useless against bosses(reduced duration and effects), which most likely devolve to DPS/Healing races with direct support magic being the preference because they're more consistent. The only JRPG I've seen where debuff stacking is the shit is ShinMegaTen. Whereas Western RPGs are a lot more accommodating of this play style.
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I see, so his teamates don't notice that he is being useful and the people watching the stream are no there to notice so he considered weak and useless cause his debuffs aren't flashy spells like White Mages
@lordteddington I know right? I can't remember when this trend started (I believe FF started it) but when I played the original DQ games, debuff was freaking useful. I already lost count of how many time my party survived because I put the OP monsters into sleep.
@AnimuVsMango @Ragu_Jostar @Stormdragon Honestly at a lot of different people but these seemed most relevant and recent.
This world its entertainment and ranking is based off of how many people pay to watch you do things. At this time in the story in the top 100 there are 3 white mages and 3 blackmages. Total. White mages are almost JUST as despised as black mages for making things look good but they are at least appreciated by their companions if not the viewers and have a better reputation due to the 'Saint' Panacea in the #1 party. Black mages ARE more frequently better on the monster side.....but they are also bad there because EVERY party MUST possess at least one person with the 'Brave/Hero' job and might possess up to 5 if one of them can keep that many under control without splitting to make their own parties. And Brave's have sky high resistances compared to most people, meaning Braves tend to cut them apart the moment their companions are afflicted since basically all spells are concentration in this world.
Basically, black and white mage were THE SHIT back when the world was at war, now that its peaceful white mages generally are doctors and rarely dungeon crawlers and black mages are the people that others spit on while passing by because they get nothing useful for ordinary life and aren't accepted into most parties. This is a world where 99% of people that work a job have that AS their job. Lumberjack, Cook, Seamstress, etc are all jobs you get at 10 years old and VASTLY improve your ability to do those jobs, generally allowing you to reach places ordinary people simply can't match even if they devote their lives to it.
On top of that the MC is actively hiding how effective he is by casting his spells in a hidden manner generally to allow his companions to shine and hide that he is.....VERY out of the average as a black mage. The only person who knows is his best friend who accepted this plan when the MC came up with it when they were 13....and he has become far more absurd since then.
This world its entertainment and ranking is based off of how many people pay to watch you do things. At this time in the story in the top 100 there are 3 white mages and 3 blackmages. Total. White mages are almost JUST as despised as black mages for making things look good but they are at least appreciated by their companions if not the viewers and have a better reputation due to the 'Saint' Panacea in the #1 party. Black mages ARE more frequently better on the monster side.....but they are also bad there because EVERY party MUST possess at least one person with the 'Brave/Hero' job and might possess up to 5 if one of them can keep that many under control without splitting to make their own parties. And Brave's have sky high resistances compared to most people, meaning Braves tend to cut them apart the moment their companions are afflicted since basically all spells are concentration in this world.
Basically, black and white mage were THE SHIT back when the world was at war, now that its peaceful white mages generally are doctors and rarely dungeon crawlers and black mages are the people that others spit on while passing by because they get nothing useful for ordinary life and aren't accepted into most parties. This is a world where 99% of people that work a job have that AS their job. Lumberjack, Cook, Seamstress, etc are all jobs you get at 10 years old and VASTLY improve your ability to do those jobs, generally allowing you to reach places ordinary people simply can't match even if they devote their lives to it.
On top of that the MC is actively hiding how effective he is by casting his spells in a hidden manner generally to allow his companions to shine and hide that he is.....VERY out of the average as a black mage. The only person who knows is his best friend who accepted this plan when the MC came up with it when they were 13....and he has become far more absurd since then.
Thanks for the chapter!
You all are forgetting this isn't a battle to press on and save the human race, but an entertainment 'show'. Also, for reasons that'll likely be explained later, MC was restricted by his mentor not to stand out too much or do anything that'll cause him trouble. Hence MC doesn't cast it on humans and problem with casting it on monsters is that due to the effects it's hard to tell whether or not he did something much less what he did. If they bothered to talk to the monsters about the effects they'd find out how powerful and fearsome his ability is, but humans like to favor humans and believe what they can see so any monster interviews only show up on the monster channels. Also, which is Alvar's main problem, is that casting dark magic doesn't have any visible, entertaining effects like a wave of darkness or monster afflicted changes color and in LN he commented that trying to chant anything just irritated people for some reason. Personally I think he should combine his Black Magic with stage magic. Basically do tricks that look good but do nothing while casting the magic so he at least appears to be doing something and raise some entertainment value. Like smoke spurt out of his sleeve for a couple seconds while yelling out "Blind" at target pointing at while casting black magic to blind it.
Btw, wasn't mentioned here but along with it's lack of entertainment value and difficulty to determine if actually worked or not, one of the reasons Black Magic is looked down upon is it's believed to be a beginner step for Black Sorcery. Black Sorcery being the really evil spells used by the Demon Lord to suppress and kill humanity making it highly illegal to use much less know from the passed on fears. Although hero abilities are feared too if hero disfavored or not charismatic enough to keep an audience as being very powerful but without the stigma of having been used to try to eradicate humanity. Hence due to the stigma along with being hit or miss and weak effects by most of the users Black Magic users are very disfavored. Especially as higher the level of opponent the harder it is to get to work along with a weaker effect. For typical Black Mage casting blind on a goblin might have an 80-90% chance of success to completely blind the goblin for 10 minutes. However, casting it on a high level hero like Phoenix with magical resistance might have a 5-10% chance of blurring his vision for 5 seconds. Hence when fighting monster Black mages the usual reaction is to brute force through it. Also, typical Black Mages can only do one or two spells on one or two targets at a time and getting a penalty for using weapons or armor not related to Black Sorcery makes them very susceptible to attacks requiring someone else to protect them.
You all are forgetting this isn't a battle to press on and save the human race, but an entertainment 'show'. Also, for reasons that'll likely be explained later, MC was restricted by his mentor not to stand out too much or do anything that'll cause him trouble. Hence MC doesn't cast it on humans and problem with casting it on monsters is that due to the effects it's hard to tell whether or not he did something much less what he did. If they bothered to talk to the monsters about the effects they'd find out how powerful and fearsome his ability is, but humans like to favor humans and believe what they can see so any monster interviews only show up on the monster channels. Also, which is Alvar's main problem, is that casting dark magic doesn't have any visible, entertaining effects like a wave of darkness or monster afflicted changes color and in LN he commented that trying to chant anything just irritated people for some reason. Personally I think he should combine his Black Magic with stage magic. Basically do tricks that look good but do nothing while casting the magic so he at least appears to be doing something and raise some entertainment value. Like smoke spurt out of his sleeve for a couple seconds while yelling out "Blind" at target pointing at while casting black magic to blind it.
Btw, wasn't mentioned here but along with it's lack of entertainment value and difficulty to determine if actually worked or not, one of the reasons Black Magic is looked down upon is it's believed to be a beginner step for Black Sorcery. Black Sorcery being the really evil spells used by the Demon Lord to suppress and kill humanity making it highly illegal to use much less know from the passed on fears. Although hero abilities are feared too if hero disfavored or not charismatic enough to keep an audience as being very powerful but without the stigma of having been used to try to eradicate humanity. Hence due to the stigma along with being hit or miss and weak effects by most of the users Black Magic users are very disfavored. Especially as higher the level of opponent the harder it is to get to work along with a weaker effect. For typical Black Mage casting blind on a goblin might have an 80-90% chance of success to completely blind the goblin for 10 minutes. However, casting it on a high level hero like Phoenix with magical resistance might have a 5-10% chance of blurring his vision for 5 seconds. Hence when fighting monster Black mages the usual reaction is to brute force through it. Also, typical Black Mages can only do one or two spells on one or two targets at a time and getting a penalty for using weapons or armor not related to Black Sorcery makes them very susceptible to attacks requiring someone else to protect them.
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You could say he is working his arse off in the background, but gets no credit for it...
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this is kind of not my taste hoping we get him becoming a real Demon king.
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You know I can't relate to how classes that focus on providing debuffs are looked down upon. They are, in fact, some of the most popular classes people tend to use in order to, say, deal massive-- and I mean massive amounts of damage. And with how the author is playing it as it is, it's bugging me out so much. Regardless, will have to see for myself if I can get pass this irritable detail...
Even if this is only for entertainment, a class built around debuff is still fun to watch consider how much sway they have in the game. They can basically make any of the harder monsters or enemies crumble to their knees.
I really don't understand why the commentators are downplaying the MC's role in the fight. Even if it's not flashy, he helps in bring big monsters to their knees and easier to deal with. And for the commentators it's so much easier to comment on it as well, considering they can easily hype up the impact of a debuffs like in lol.
I really don't understand why the commentators are downplaying the MC's role in the fight. Even if it's not flashy, he helps in bring big monsters to their knees and easier to deal with. And for the commentators it's so much easier to comment on it as well, considering they can easily hype up the impact of a debuffs like in lol.
This concept of downplaying essential team roles is so stupid. "Man we dont need dps/healer/tank/support were fine on own you dps/healer/support/tank kun are useless get out of our party. Oh no without our tank/support/healer/dps we're falling apart."
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Their team looks like it’s made up of two swordsman ( one of them might qualify as a spell sword maybe?), a tank, an archer and a debuff mage so swamping out the mage for a healer doesn’t seem that bad of an idea
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Pfft
I get what the author is trying to do here. Kinda trying to make it different from the usual "kicked out from the party" type of manga but it's no different from the norm... Plus it doesn't really make sense too. It's like people hating on the tanks in parties where they are actually essential. But unlike a tank where they can see results. MC is working his ass out but gets zero credit just because no one sees what exactly he's doing in-stream... bruh how can you not see his debuffs or it even seems like that the teammates don't too. Idk but it kinda feels like a weak plot device to me. Still, tho Imma read this hoping to see it might actually be good.
Also, debuffs have lots of uses too. I mean you can always use recovery items in place of a "White mage" but having debuffs directly from "Black Mage" is better. Two types of support and MC can deal in pretty useful offensive ones in a party with a lot of DPS. I mean having a lot of DPS in there plus a debuffer... won't that make things a speed run. Idk why can't people see its advantage or even at least his teammates?
I get what the author is trying to do here. Kinda trying to make it different from the usual "kicked out from the party" type of manga but it's no different from the norm... Plus it doesn't really make sense too. It's like people hating on the tanks in parties where they are actually essential. But unlike a tank where they can see results. MC is working his ass out but gets zero credit just because no one sees what exactly he's doing in-stream... bruh how can you not see his debuffs or it even seems like that the teammates don't too. Idk but it kinda feels like a weak plot device to me. Still, tho Imma read this hoping to see it might actually be good.
Also, debuffs have lots of uses too. I mean you can always use recovery items in place of a "White mage" but having debuffs directly from "Black Mage" is better. Two types of support and MC can deal in pretty useful offensive ones in a party with a lot of DPS. I mean having a lot of DPS in there plus a debuffer... won't that make things a speed run. Idk why can't people see its advantage or even at least his teammates?
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