Watashitachi wa Moto Joshi desu - Ch. 11

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I saw some comments that the author attributed this to the hormones. It's not really true. It's stated in a previous chapter that Rinko "always liked boobs". Which is a hint the author put to show that the sexual preferences of Rinko were not that clear cut, even before the change, but maybe the change just magnified that aspect. She was romantically attracted to Yuuki senpai and still is (?), but was she sexually attracted to him? It's not clear. But in the present, he just does nothing for Rinko's dick. That may have been comphet though, like before it was logical and normal for Rinko to think that liking Yuuki equates wanting to date him and be his girl, but with the change it's not clear anymore. Rinko may be bisexual OR may have only been attracted sexually to girls before without really thinking deeply about it.
Yes, this is the more charitable interpretation imo.
But in chapter 3 page 7:
Due to hormonal imbalances... there may also be excessive sexual arousal towards the opposite sex (women's bodies)
Text boxes (rather than thought bubbles) after reading the brochure.
Rinko's following thoughts:
"I understand. This and that too (illustrations of girls appearing attractive) It was because of the sex changing disorder."
Like I said, it was left vague enough. Maybe Rinko misinterpreted the brochure in an attempt to "explain her gay away". This interpretation would fit with the short aside about her always liking boobs. It even kind of fits the tone of those panels themselves. It almost feels like she's trying to convince herself here.

But those panels about Rinko liking boobs are immediately backtracked and attributed to "being a boy", and if you take it at face value, the manga is currently suggesting that hormones are the culprit of Rinko's sexuality. Combine this with the fact that it's made indisputably clear that Rinko doesn't (at this point in time) feel sexual attraction to Yuuki, and that it seems to be a common manga trope to insinuate that sexual orientation comes from the genitals, and I hope that this eventually gets re-examined and cleared up, or else it will stick out as a sore spot in the story for me. It's left itself with enough outs so far that it's not doomed, but the last few chapters have kind of made it seem like we're headed towards gender essentialism. We'll have to wait and see how it continues to develop.
 
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also i completely forgot about this until just now but ch5 page 17, lol, lmao
I did mention that as well. It is a potential out for the current way things are being presented, but it is walked back on by Rinko in the same page, and further backtracked immediately on page 18.
 
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Yes, this is the more charitable interpretation imo.
But in chapter 3 page 7:

Text boxes (rather than thought bubbles) after reading the brochure.
Rinko's following thoughts:

Like I said, it was left vague enough. Maybe Rinko misinterpreted the brochure in an attempt to "explain her gay away". This interpretation would fit with the short aside about her always liking boobs. It even kind of fits the tone of those panels themselves. It almost feels like she's trying to convince herself here.

But those panels about Rinko liking boobs are immediately backtracked and attributed to "being a boy", and if you take it at face value, the manga is currently suggesting that hormones are the culprit of Rinko's sexuality. Combine this with the fact that it's made indisputably clear that Rinko doesn't (at this point in time) feel sexual attraction to Yuuki, and that it seems to be a common manga trope to insinuate that sexual orientation comes from the genitals, and I hope that this eventually gets re-examined and cleared up, or else it will stick out as a sore spot in the story for me. It's left itself with enough outs so far that it's not doomed, but the last few chapters have kind of made it seem like we're headed towards gender essentialism. We'll have to wait and see how it continues to develop.
No one really knows for sure where sexual preferences come from.

As I said Rinko may be bisexual and the change made it more obvious, with erections, whereas it was maybe more discreet before. Plus, we don't know the extent of the change. If we take the change for granted, it implies the shifting and modification of organs in the whole body overnight, the creation of a penis and testicles, the disappearance of what little boobs she had, the growth of an adam's apple, etc.

So it's not out of this world that it may entail changes in the brain that would incur a shift in preference. Since it's not a real disorder, anything goes.

The particularity of this manga is making it something not exceptional and existing in parallel with other voluntary changes.
 
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Interesting. I've heard before about trans situations in Japan and how you can only be considered a woman if you have a vaginoplasty. I really wonder if this is part of it, or if the author is just expressing that in general people think about sex reassignment surgery when they think of transition, even though it's probably the most extreme gender affirming procedure and a great many trans individuals choose not to have it.

Thanks for the translation!
 
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makes me wonder if we'll meet any actual trans ppl in the story. if not gender non conforming or crossdressers, because dysphoria aside there's some really good makeup and tuck jobs for ppl who look "convincing" without using hrt/surgery/etc

b/c with the 'comedy' tag i'd be expecting at least one throwaway joke/page like "he got to have a female body outta all ppl, i'm jealous" if not some ppl taking advantage of the situation and becoming an 'influencer' that decided to stay that way versus the vid they watched on the person who changed back
I feel part of the issue is, IIRC, in japan for you to be able to register as the opposite sex, srs IS necessary (alongside sterilisation and some other kinda discriminatory stuff iirc) which might be why the mum in the previous chapter immediately jumped to it and everyone seems to be skipping thinking about gentler transitions(puberty blockers, tucking, hrt, etc)
 
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I don't think in the end she'll go through that surgery, her dick has basically become a part of her and cutting it off would not make a real vagina, she also just got plenty scared lmao, let's see how this pans out.
 
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Yeah I really hope the characters are ignorant about there not being a need for bottom surgery, and not the author themselves.

Considering how Japan for a long time has required sterilization to change your gender on the registry I assume everyone is stuck on on the understanding that transition = bottom surgery. Still, maybe it's intentional ignorance, or maybe the author thinks that's the only avenue for transitioning, I guess we'll have to see.
 
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Uhh i like how the mangaka really describes how misinfromation spreads this easily

"yes lets decide to watch a video just about the surgery"

even when the "flashy" youtuber tells them that this was the harshest part they still dont question the other steps.
...

people tend to forget what happened the last couple chapters, and even the descripton of the surgery

the mangaka def. knows what they are doing

...

I still wonder if the mangaka is making her mother only uninformed ingorant or if she is actually trying to shift the focus to "forbid" her to transition

on one side i want the girl to be happy and on the other i want to see the pain and destructiveness of gender dysphoria eating someone aliveq
 
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Yeah I really hope the characters are ignorant about there not being a need for bottom surgery, and not the author themselves.

Considering how Japan for a long time has required sterilization to change your gender on the registry I assume everyone is stuck on on the understanding that transition = bottom surgery. Still, maybe it's intentional ignorance, or maybe the author thinks that's the only avenue for transitioning, I guess we'll have to see.
I believ the mangaka knows very well. Just remembering how the mother behaved towards the trans guy, the general information of the video and the misconception... i would be devastated if it isnt on purpose
 
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Poor girl just got a bomb dropped upon her, I wanna see if she actually carries on with the surgery or not.
 
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No one really knows for sure where sexual preferences come from.
We don't have a rigorous model that explains every nuance; sexual preference is a very complicated topic, but we're far from knowing nothing about where they come from. We know that postnatal hormones aren't determinants. We know that gonads, including the removal or alteration of them, aren't determinants. We have strong evidence to correlate sexual orientation with prenatal conditions, and brain structure. And we have compelling models to link those correlations to causative functions.

To simplify, we have a pretty decent crude understanding of the broad mechanisms. We're just still working out some of the fine details.
As I said Rinko may be bisexual and the change made it more obvious, with erections, whereas it was maybe more discreet before.
This could partially explain it, definitely I agree, but If this were the only explanation, it would not explain why she has no reaction to men. This would heavily suggest that sexuality is intrinsically linked to one's sex organs (and again, this isn't a rare thing for GB manga to imply), and we know this isn't the case. That should be pretty obvious and intuitive if you believe that a masculine man can be gay, for example.

This is why I offered the closeted lesbian explanation in my first comment. Maybe, as you said previously, her crush on Yuuki was just comphet, and she's actually always just been into women. It's just that now that she has a penis, she's no longer able to sweep her sexual attraction under the rug, and it's more obvious that what she feels towards Yuuki isn't sexual attraction.

This explanation works better for me, and the comment about liking boobs works with this interpretation, but Rinko's inner monologue in ch. 2 pg. 25 about her heart being excited but not her penis can kind of go either way and feels suggestive of her genitals being in control of her desire. Rinko also walks back on the idea of her being attracted to boobs, saying it was more of an admiration because she had small boobs herself. This could either be her being closeted, or a legitimate explanation for what was meant to be a gag line.

If it was just these things, I could accept it at face value, even if the manga decided not to explore it further at all.

So it's not out of this world that it may entail changes in the brain that would incur a shift in preference. Since it's not a real disorder, anything goes.

If it was just kept vague and fuzzy I could buy this explanation. Even if the brochure said, "You may experience changes in sexual preference due to the sex change disorder" and kept it simple as that, that would be fine.

But the brochure (or if we're staying charitable, Rinko's interpretation of it) said, "Due to hormonal imbalance... there may be excessive sexual arousal towards... women's bodies"
It kind of goes out of its way to link sexual orientation to hormones and thus gonads.

Rinko can't get it up for Yuuki. Is it because she's not actually sexually attracted to men? Did the sex change disorder alter her brain? Maybe either of those, but the manga has already kind of primed us to link sexual desire to hormones and genitals. Following that logic, Rinko isn't physically attracted to Yuki because she now lacks the equipment that produces attraction to men.

Is Rinko getting excited over her female classmates because she's always liked boobs? Maybe. Rinko claims she didn't like them this much before, and her friends come to the conclusion that it's the reaction of a boy. They link the sexuality to the gender, the sexuality has already been linked to the genetalia, now the genetalia has been linked to the gender.

Rinko and characters keep saying that she "became a man". What do they mean when they say this? They mean that her female gonads became male gonads.

If it ended there, then yeah, it feels like a bit of a stretch and is pretty open to interpretation still. But in the past few chapters we get:
  • Her mom "realizing" that Rinko is a "boy" by looking at her skeleton?
    • Not only is the premise ridiculous, but it's also a common transphobe talking point, which is being (in a way) validated through the manga's viewpoint by supplying the mother with "true" information. She can "see past" the dress, makeup, and composure, implying that the essence of being a "man" or "woman" is ingrained down to your bones.
  • Her mother immediately links gender affirming care to invasive surgery. Claims that in order to "return" to being a woman, Rinko "has" to have surgery, and everyone just goes along with it.
    • Again, a common transphobe tactic
    • Also continues to link the gender to the genetalia - "in order to 'go back' to being a woman, you need to get rid of the 'man genetalia' and restore the 'woman genetalia'.
    • Maybe, they're just talking about her status on the registry (was it even changed in the first place?) but that's never brought up, never been brought up before, and the mom goes on to imply that having a "fake" vagina isn't enough to "return to being a woman".
    • The story beat in this last chapter makes it feel like this was the most critical we were going to get with these ideas. Rinko came to the conclusion that, "there is truth to both sides". Meaning there's no room to doubt the premise to begin with.
  • Now we get a story that's framed as a: girl "becoming a man" (how? by growing a penis) and "turning back into a woman" (by surgically altering the penis into a vagina)
    • Strengthening the link between gender and genitals

And yeah, any one of these things can be explained away easily enough. But when you look at them all lined up together, it starts to paint a trend that looks a lot like gender essentialism.

There's still time for the story to change perspectives and give alternate explanations, but my optimism was already starting to fade, and honestly, the more I think on the story and discuss it, the less optimism it seems I have for it to take a perspective that I would find convincing/compelling. We'll see.

Anyways, I probably could've made the same point a lot stronger with much fewer words, but I lack the eloquence, so I doubt I'll respond much further. I think I won't be able to make much meaningful contribution towards discussion past this point. Good discussing with you though. Thanks.
 
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What? Doctors dont need to cut your intestines for make the vagina or anything like that, the dilatation part works good for me but the rest ehhh... they make it sound even more awfull than what is actually
 
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I hope this manga doesn't become misinformation!! it's certainly heading that way pretty rapidly!!! Just get her on puberty blockers so she can think without the ticking time bomb of her hormones looming over her!!!!!!!
For sure, thats whats she have to do now, why she dont do that?.. also the Vaginoplastic with Colon is a very old treatment and very invasive, they shows the worst case scenario
 
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i am...genuinely impressed by the accuracy of SRS description and the little details scattered within. they got thailand right. they got colonvaginoplasty right. they got the fact that money alone can't get you an appointment, and if you show any sign of "not being 100% committed" the surgeon will turn you down on the spot. they got the intense dilation post-op care right. they even got the stigma surrounding transmedicalism and the horrors over toxic "genitals=gender" right.


this is not 100% accurate. or, rather, it is a mistake to be so confident in this evaluation. evidence surrounding whether or not hormone change/HRT "actually" changes sexuality or merely manifests the latent sexuality is purely anecdotal and seems to differ on a person-to-person basis.

source: me
Colonvaginoplasty doesnt need to be the only treatment, tbh the youtuber girl explained it in the worst way possible
 
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I am just reading this chapter and thinking how different they are making her character compared to the beginning. The beginning looked like a traditional anime girl and now I am starting to see the changes in art. props to the artist :3
I dont see many changes more than a flatter chest and the Adams apple, is thery any other thinh?
 
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I still dislike the mom. She came in and imposed her worldview on Rinko then fucked off again leaving her more confused than ever without a pillar of support. True gender equality because she pisses me off as much as the absentee fathers in other manga that do the same thing.
 
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this manga is once again cooking. the explanation of the srs is amazing, i never thought i would see that in the manga. it appears we have actual trans people in here now since when they look up videos they show people who are just regular trans. i think this whole thing is an allusion to transgender people tbh. and like come on, they get changed to the other sex and now they get dysphoric so they have to start real life hormones and use real treatments that exist now, this is a transgender person with 1 extra step
 

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