Which type of protag do you think is worse?

[varrock1]

I mean, most of the Toaru characters are unironically stronger than him. There are literal universe destroying gods like othinus that touma regularly hangs out with and Touma only has one trick from what I remember. For someone in his situation, he did really damn well. Being beaten up by characters stronger than you doesn't make you a whimp.

If Goku got his ass beat by the living tribunal, that doesn't make Goku a whimp? Of course not, it just makes the living tribunal stronger than Goku.

 

[BestBoy]

Touma teeters on the balance between chad and virgin because in one episode he can punch the super powers out of somebody and then get beat up by a middle school girl.

 

[IronDoge]

Touma is an example of the beta trope. It's not about being a twerp with no personality, it's just there to avoid a series from becoming an outright porno and to let other girls chase after the MC's dong without it being cheating/an outright hopeless endeavor for the girls.

> Nice jaded middle school essay. Did you crack that groundbreaking epiphany from your poetry diary or something? Next you'll be saying fiction is garbage because it's all lies, and none of it actually happened.

You sure sound like an intelligent, thoughtful person with an open mind tolerant of divergent opinions.

It's not exactly a secret that stories always have stuff to say, and that capitalists own the media. It's frankly a child's mentality to assert dracula wouldn't use every asset at his disposal to procure food. Or that dracula would stake himself. Or even most ludicrous, is Santa Claus.

People spend the vast majority of their free time living in a fantasy - the TV talks to a normie more than their own kids or spouses ever can. That's the definition of "propaganda", to be drenched in one particular viewpoint constantly. To deny that is absolutely coo-coo.

But yes, ad-hominem is the last refuge for someone whenever they're confronted with an obvious scrap of truth. It's not an argument, it's a defense mechanism. Why is it scary to you that you've been brainwashed? We've all been brainwashed. No one is immune to propaganda.

 

[Alex-dono-sama]

From my experience the virgin JP MC's tend to stay the same. they are virgin MC's and act like that. What I like is they have some variability in them that makes them enjoyable characters imo. (like rokudou tousuke from that delinquent school harem series ). What I prefer about them is at the start of the series they are weak or have low self confidence and when they get strong (like deku) or thelove intrest appears or they start dating someone they tend to not get full of themselves with a few exceptions like the (mc of https://mangadex.org/title/42020/hime-koukan-otasaa-no-hime-ga-kareshi-koukan-wo-goshomou-na-ken) And because there is variability in how the character plays out I prefer Virgin JP MC's

The chad CN MC's that I have experienced usually have a reputation as being weak and then some ray of light shines down from the heavens or someone from a different world who somehow knows cultivation takes over their body and suddenly they are good at cultivation. Then the Mc will go and get revenge on those who bullied or even killed the previous owner of the body. And then the MC tends to be some kind of lone wolf who is an asshole to all the talented people because all the talented people are also assholes. And then there's usually some girl who is revered as the sect beauty and she falls for the mc for reasons unapparent to me. and the MC never undergoes any character development from the ones I've read. (Mind you I have only read about 20 translated Manhuas not the actual 10,000+ chapter novels)

 

[PantsMan]

@IronDoge
While there is something to be said about hegemonic culture that you're alluding to, I absolutely hate that sort of overly reductionist approach towards fiction, and even culture in general. Culture and even hyper-commercialized entertainment are far from being solely the results of top-down or purely circumstantial influences. Obviously no work is made in a vacuum, and obviously author's background, time period and culture (through which what you're referring to as propaganda operates) affect the work. But to focus entirely on these external influences and descend into hollow extrapolations and categorization is to miss much of the point.

Another reason I dislike the mindset is due to how easily many of the correlations people draw can be turned on their head. Take the ones you gave: "heroes are often reactive because maintaining the status quo is beneficial for the ruling class/whoever benefits from the story". However, I could argue that in many stereotypical heroes' journeys many heroes are not restoring the current status quo of the Overlord or even immediately prior, but that of an idyllic, distant past. If not outright "breaking the chains of the past". Or that the "status quo" that is being referred to is not societal, but a mirror of our own desire for an idealized childhood innocence which has been lost. All of these claims hold effectively the same weight unless the author steps in and clarifies his intent, and even then it might not be a done deal.

It's not a particularly profound realization that all culture manipulates you, regardless of where it's coming from. But defaulting to your mindset when talking about manga inevitably leads to broad armchair oversimplifications and "the curtains are blue and red because the mangaka hates Koreans"-tier fart-sniffing. Good for looking smug and mature, but doesn't really say anything worth discussing.

 

[varrock1]

@BestBoy
Isn't Touma's only ability to negate supernatural stuff around him?
Other than that, he's a regular dude.
By middle school girl, are you referring to Mikasa? The Esper girl that can move at hypersonic speeds and fire lightning that can destroy buildings.

Most Espers and supernatural beings are far above Touma's weight class.
By your logic, if Madara Uchiha got placed in an environment where beings like the Beyonder, The Spectre, Galactus and the Molecule man had free reign, Madara is a beta bitch.

 

[BestBoy]

@varrock1 You took my humorous comment way too seriously. I was talking about the priestess. Also his power isn't just "negate supernatural stuff." But all those details would ruin the humor of my comment, so great job.

 

[varrock1]

I'm 99% certain that his only ability is literally negating anything supernatural around him via his hand.

 

[BestBoy]

@varrock1

Spoiler

Doesn't really explain the dragons that shoot out of his severed shoulder, or the fact he can regrow his arm.

 

[varrock1]

@BestBoy

Actually that's a good point. I haven't read the story in a while. If that's true then I stand corrected and he does have other powers. What part of the series was that in?

 

[BestBoy]

@varrock1 The

Spoiler

dragons

during the Deep Blood Arc and again during the Daihasei Festival Arc. The

Spoiler

regeneration

at the end of the Third World War.

 

[sereminar]

male mc's are of course the worst, like every time.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@sereminar
Why's that?

 

[yucky]

male mcs suck 99% of the time. i respect when male mcs have more of a personality outside of basic self insert kind of traits. i think its nice when male mcs actually have an interesting design and a personality that could conflict with the readers if that makes sense?

 

[kenx]

I prefer good MCs over everything, be they male or female.
That said, when the setting is an obvious power-wank, having a fitting protagonist is almost a given, so those kinds get a little leeway from me.
Also, talking about the question in the OP, I hate the virgin ones more. I mean, I get the necessity of keeping it under 18, but there are better ways to do that.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@yucky

male mcs suck 99% of the time.

I appreciate you sharing your opinion, but it would be beneficial if you rephrased and/or narrowed down this statement to specific genres or something lol. I don't really mind, but I'm sure you can understand what kind of impression it could give. If someone said "female mcs suck 99% of the time", it would definitely sound short-sighted, and most people don't really separate "male/female MC's" from "males/females", if you get what I mean.

I can understand the self insert thing tho. 'Mary Sue' type characters (male or female, whatever the male equivalent is,) meant for self-inserting are pretty rampant nowadays. I don't really read Shoujo manga, so I can't say how common seemingly flawless MC's are in that genre, but it definitely seems like the 'nobility' trait/trope is appealing in a lot of Shoujo manga. This is most likely due to the fact that the target audience of said manga likes to self insert as members of nobility.

Tbh, stories that don't attempt to appeal to self-inserters are few and far between. It's inevitable that self-insert traits will be found in most MC's nowadays, male or female. It's what sells, after all.

@Tamerlane, you got time for a wall of text on this topic?

 

[Fim]

I think I don't really know any of those "evil" chinese MCs, are there any titles on this site you could point me to? I suspect I would hate them even more than some of the japanese "Chad" MCs like Touma I've come across.
Whether because of personal predisposition or because I just got used to them by now, I seem to be able to tolerate the beta spineless ones a lot better, at least for a while. Also spineless characters sometimes do show tendencies of growing a backbone, while characters that are full of themselves from the start never seem to change that much.

 

[Teddy]

Kamijous in NT 22 Reverse is pretty busted

Spoiler

He's so good at equality, he punches himself

 

[vinsegas]

Both are bad.
Cant you make a normal person as a MC?
None are credible. Normal people dont act like these kind of protags.
Maybe its my bored old mind, but I hate both of those kind of MCs.
Nowadays I search for different kind of mangas.

 

[Teddy]

Cause people are boring. Not everyone is Mad Jack Churchhill. You need to make extraordinary choices to be in extraordinary postitions and stories.

You need to run for local election to have a chance to be President but most people won't do that.

You need to be a convicted sex criminal to do half the things that MCs do for fan service

You need to be ultra wholesome and be nice to all your enemies to get that "Nice Guy" label...or be an absolute pushover; either or


That's why Slice of Life is supreme