Casual chatting thread

[MinecraftStoryModeLover]

Only I get to be manipulative

As long as you truly love me ..

 

[Sahkuh]

As long as you truly love me ..

just send more nudes

 

[Manko-sensei]

I dress very unlike my PFP though

You mean you dress lewder, right?

 

[MinecraftStoryModeLover]

just send more nudes

Okay.... ❤️

 

[Bireus]

Well, that was interesting, I guess.

 

[Angry_Panda]

I wouldn't say we have no info about effects of vaping. We don't have as much as tobacco, but we have a lot (and we probably can assume some things too)
Vape juice is basically 3 main ingredients:

• glycerol
• glycol
• nicotine

This alone is enough, and i think we have enough studies for the effects of these 3 components alone (at least how they effect human body, and what happens with them at temperatures we talk here about).
If we add flavoring, then we have another can of worms - there are hundreds of possible compounds, but you can use food grade flavoring, like stuff you add to cakes and which was studied enough to be food grade.
As we know burning tobacco releases hundreds of different compounds.
In vapes you don't burn anything (just heat it so mix of glycerol/glycol can vaporize) - so lots of different chemical reactions that would happen in case of burning simply don't happen at all (or happen negligible amounts). Well there's also possibility that one flavor will get into reaction with different one, because there's non zero probability of that.

I've seen few main problems with vapes mentioned:

• findings of toxic flavoring added (which seemed to be rather rare and is easily avoidable, as food grade stuff is readily available for hundreds of different flavors and extremely cheap)
• studies that found some concerning chemicals being released, but these were performed on basically dry atomizers with way too much power.
• people consuming more nicotine than they were with traditional cigarettes/fueling nicotine addiction (valid from use vapes to quit pov, partially irrelevant from vapes as alternative to smoking pov)
• easily accessible to kids (as if normal cigarettes weren't)/trendy to kids/easier for kids to get addicted as they don't taste horrible at first as cigarettes do.

There's also argument that vaping is around for 20 years. AFAIK we have no epidemic of new cases of lung cancer (or other diseases that could be linked to vaping) in people who never smoked tobacco and only vaped. So we can assume that if there are any serious, widespread, adverse effects, they do not manifest in at least 20 years (probably even more, as statistics alone would mean we'd get first cases of unlucky people long before that). And we don't have big tobacco to lobby to hide these harmful effects like with traditional cigarettes.

I won't say vaping is GOOD for you - it's not, and there are studies that show that. But the main question should not be if vaping is good or bad - it should be how bad it's compared to tobacco. And from what limited info we have, it IMO points that vaping is at least several times LESS harmful that tobacco, which would make it viable, less harmful alternative to smoking for people who don't want to/can't quit.
And speaking from personal experience - over the last 16 years i've smoked pack-two for 12 years (with one 2 year break once, then later on 2 from month to 3 months long - always went back to smoking finally). for ~2 years now i use vapes and first haven't had urge to smoke (so it's effective in dealing with nicotine addiction), and second i actually feel better.

I agree that the base components (well, the propylene glycol/glycerine, anyway) are orders of magnitude less harmful than cigarette smoke (I'll leave the nicotine out, since it's, y'know, addictive and all). My two concerns are the fractional ingredients for flavoring and the quality of the base fluid. I'm hard-pressed to believe there aren't some small but successful commercial mixers using poor grade base and flavors in their products (because they're cheaper, or because they bought from some random source online, or because of poor handling mid-chain, or because...), with traces of all kinds of things you wouldn't want to inhale. Again, big companies who deal with reputable suppliers and can undergo testing are much less likely to run into these problems. (Similar to how you take a much bigger chance with moonshine from some guy down the road than with a bottle of Everclear.)

I would think the custom-built/modded units are more likely to pose a threat than over-the-counter ready-to-use units, since factors like temperature, dosage, and sterilization of components is more closely controlled in the latter.

I understand the devices have existed for 20+ years, but I don't recall ever seeing one in person until 2006, and that was a novelty. I also don't recall seeing advertising for them before roughly that time (though I do recall the first ad I saw was on TV - take that, big tobacco!). I would say they stopped being novelties somewhere in the early 2010's, and really didn't take off until 2015 or so. So while there certainly would be a small cadre of 20 year users at this point, I don't think we're to yet to a broad enough base of multi-decade users to have a great long-term picture of health effects, particularly with respect to the modded units (and the heroic doses those frequently provide) and home fluid portions of the market.

Having said that, the fact that we don't appear to have statistically significant numbers of cases associated with long-term vaping starting to make headlines at this point is promising. And if it turns out that the long term effects are in fact minimal, that would certainly vindicate the folks suggesting vaping as a tobacco-cessation strategy.

 

[robertelch]

When did this turn into Casual Drug Danger Thread

 

[Angry_Panda]

When did this turn into Casual Drug Danger Thread

Always was.

 

[Sahkuh]

We will all die some kind of death, so toke it up

 

[Angry_Panda]

We will all die some kind of death, so toke it up

 

[BakedBanana]

I dress very unlike my PFP though

Who are you!? You aren't Modoki!
I thought for a second that @Robinisback finally went insane and finally went all in on the Menhera route.

Umareru Kachi no Nakatta Jibun ga Anna no Tame ni Dekiru Ikutsuka no Koto chapter 7

 

[robertelch]

Who are you!? You aren't Modoki!

Umareru Kachi no Nakatta Jibun ga Anna no Tame ni Dekiru Ikutsuka no Koto chapter 7

I've become menhera-chan

 

[Sahkuh]

I've become menhera-chan

switching pfps so often, why i never

 

[BakedBanana]

I've become menhera-chan

Now you are a cute trap?!

---

Also that's not Menhera! The true Menhera looks like this!

Menehra-chan chapter 1 and 2

 

[robertelch]

switching pfps so often, why i never

Your PFP literally had to be massively compressed to even work on the Forums. I was the one that found out why it didn't btw

 

[robertelch]

Now you are a cute trap?!

---

Also that's not Menhera! The true Menhera looks like this!

Menehra-chan chapter 1 and 2

Of course I'm a cute trap. Always have been. Always will be

 

[Robinisback]

Who are you!? You aren't Modoki!
I thought for a second that @Robinisback finally went insane and finally went all in on the Menhera route.

Umareru Kachi no Nakatta Jibun ga Anna no Tame ni Dekiru Ikutsuka no Koto chapter 7

Dw, I'm already insane enough, guys. Even the counselors are trying to hunt me down.

 

[Sahkuh]

Your PFP literally had to be massively compressed to even work on the Forums. I was the one that found out why it didn't btw

Yeah, but you could you tighten up those frames so it looks smoother? That would be great

 

[Manko-sensei]

Dw, I'm already insane enough, guys. Even the counselors are trying to hunt me down.

Send me your location and I'll send help, we can help each other you know. I can't guarantee the payment will be fair though.

 

[jc9]

maybe you forgot to add it, but there are effects on vaping similar to regular smoking which are lung performance deficiency and its consequences on breathing (such as aggravated asthma).

Well, IMO the main question is - how bad are these effects compared to cigarettes.

Vaping for young people has become the door to consume nicotine products and they're essentially tobacco smokers in training.

That's IMO completely different discussion - preventing young people from getting addicted to nicotine in the first place (and of course we should do that - not starting with either one and not being addicted to nicotine is the best scenario and i wish that to anyone). We should focus on preventing minors from getting either one, same as we do with alcohol.
I heard this argument before, and TBH this vaping-smoking pipeline sounds awfully similar to weed-heroin pipeline that i heard about many times years before. Not sure how real it is, but from what i've seen many more younger people vape than smoke. In slightly older people, i haven't met anyone who went from vaping to smoking (and seen several including myself who went the other way). Even ignoring health risks, considering vaping usually is cheaper, more socially acceptable, and less annoying to you/people around you (smell, waking up with your mouth feeling like dry old boot, coughing), and most important covers the main problem that is nicotine addiction - i doubt there are many people who intentionally go this way (especially people who only vaped and never smoked before, as even for me now cigarettes are hard to finish because of how awful they taste after so long).
But that's just my experiences so take it with a grain of salt.

I agree that the base components (well, the propylene glycol/glycerine, anyway) are orders of magnitude less harmful than cigarette smoke (I'll leave the nicotine out, since it's, y'know, addictive and all). My two concerns are the fractional ingredients for flavoring and the quality of the base fluid. I'm hard-pressed to believe there aren't some small but successful commercial mixers using poor grade base and flavors in their products (because they're cheaper, or because they bought from some random source online, or because of poor handling mid-chain, or because...), with traces of all kinds of things you wouldn't want to inhale. Again, big companies who deal with reputable suppliers and can undergo testing are much less likely to run into these problems. (Similar to how you take a much bigger chance with moonshine from some guy down the road than with a bottle of Everclear.)

I don't think we couldn't have same level of monitoring for liquid manufactures as we do for any other food/tobacco/alcohol/drugs manufacturers. On the other hand it's harder because there's more of them instead of one huge factory, on the other in this case it's way harder to actually properly hide something/bribe someone. One unannounced inspector could easily shut down whole business if he finds sketchy stuff. For big scale business, this sketchy stuff could be even made legal.
And if we are talking moonshine - never had any problem with it, one of the best vodkas i had were all moonshine. But i knew the source, and knew it was actually moonshine (and not just bootleg vodka made from stolen/smuggled ethanol - there were enough cases where waht they stole was methanol instead - this shit i avoided like a plague). It would be extremely hard to intentionally fk up the process to the point it becomes toxic - basically drinking first ~100 ml straight from the distiller instead of throwing it away (because even if you don't throw it away, you'll get a shitty moonshine, but it won't be permanent damage toxic). On the other hand, i once got a bottle of vodka from a big store chain, and it was 100% fake made from god knows what (still probably had some of the vomit inducing shit left in it, because never seen a vodka, even cheap one, where first glass makes one person puke and other almost puke).

I would think the custom-built/modded units are more likely to pose a threat than over-the-counter ready-to-use units, since factors like temperature, dosage, and sterilization of components is more closely controlled in the latter.

That's user error and no way to prevent that - same as we won't stop people from smoking 5 packs a day.

Having said that, the fact that we don't appear to have statistically significant numbers of cases associated with long-term vaping starting to make headlines at this point is promising. And if it turns out that the long term effects are in fact minimal, that would certainly vindicate the folks suggesting vaping as a tobacco-cessation strategy.

Yeah i guess i'm just a bit more optimistic than you in this matter (or it's wishful thinking because i use this stuff).