Ruri Dragon - Ch. 13 - Don't Need to Be Besties

[BuyVelomobiles]

The problem isn't that you don't understand Japanese, it's that you don't seem to understand English.
And I'm not exactly sure if you understand how translation works either.

Case in point.
People that don't speak, or read Japanese, opining on the translation for a Japanese work, then insisting that the first "translation" they saw is gospel because they don't actually care what was said in the raw.

I think you personally missed the point here: The "Localizer" changed the story by making them say things they didn't say in Japanese. And in this case, it directly impacted the story, since a meek, withdrawn character was turned into a strong-willed , sassy one. Which then turns the criticism that "She doesn't care about people" from one where her passive avoidance of people gave someone a bad impression, to one where she's made the conscious decision to avoid them, and the criticism is objectively true.

I don't know what the relevance of my English skills even is, since I'm reading a story written by a Japanese Author, in Japan, in Japanese.

 

[dy4y]

Case in point.
People that don't speak, or read Japanese, opining on the translation for a Japanese work, then insisting that the first "translation" they saw is gospel because they don't actually care what was said in the raw.

I think you personally missed the point here: The "Localizer" changed the story by making them say things they didn't say in Japanese. And in this case, it directly impacted the story, since a meek, withdrawn character was turned into a strong-willed , sassy one. Which then turns the criticism that "She doesn't care about people" from one where her passive avoidance of people gave someone a bad impression, to one where she's made the conscious decision to avoid them, and the criticism is objectively true.

I don't know what the relevance of my English skills even is, since I'm reading a story written by a Japanese Author, in Japan, in Japanese.

A. you're just assuming that I don't speak Japanese which is what you were just accusing everyone else of doing
B. you just proved my point. The official TL is not perfect by any means but for you to accuse it of doing what it blatantly doesn't means that you either don't understand the text or don't understand the process of translation
Or maybe you just want to complain
Anyway, the relevance of your English skills comes to the fact that you need to understand what the English translation is saying in order to be able to criticise it in the way you do.

Either way I fail to see the point to what you're doing. Boohoo the official TL is shit, that's nothing new. Complaining about it in a forum and trying to appear so much smarter than everyone else who just goes with it doesn't actually accomplish anything

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

A. you're just assuming that I don't speak Japanese which is what you were just accusing everyone else of doing

Do you speak Japanese?

Also, considering the last guy thinks "だよね” translates to "Obviously", or anything along those lines, when ”当たり前” exists suggests, at best, motivated reasoning on his part. Which, considering it isn't what she said, is indistinguishable from just not knowing what she said in the first place.

B. you just proved my point. The official TL is not perfect by any means but for you to accuse it of doing what it blatantly doesn't means that you either don't understand the text or don't understand the process of translation

It's not a translation, it's a re-write. If you don't care that it's a re-write, that's fine, but I don't know why you're arguing with me here.

Anyway, the relevance of your English skills comes to the fact that you need to understand what the English translation is saying in order to be able to criticise it in the way you do.

It'd be nice if you understood what the Japanese raws were saying, so you actually knew what the "Translation" is actually supposed to say in the first place. And I don't understand the question in the first place. We both know I speak English.

You: "HA, YOU DON"T EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH"

Me: Posts almost exclusively in English and Japanese 🤨

Like, I notice you haven't actually leveled any specific criticism about what I've gotten wrong here.

Either way I fail to see the point to what you're doing. Boohoo the official TL is shit, that's nothing new. Complaining about it in a forum and trying to appear so much smarter than everyone else who just goes with it doesn't actually accomplish anything

Plenty of people seem to appreciate knowing they're not getting the actual story. And plenty more actually care that these companies butcher the content, often for political reasons. Again, if you don't care, that's fine, but then I don't know why you're arguing with me about it.

 

[immy]

More translations should be like what Valdimar Ásmundsson did to Icelandic version of Dracula TBH

 

[Omnicrom]

I do appreciate the situation is being presented as one of give and take. Maeda jumped to a bad conclusion but she's not exactly "wrong" about Ruri, what makes her wrong is how far she's reading into it. Ruri isn't super social and has trouble with names and opening up to people, to the point of coming across as aloof or uninterested or even dismissive. This is all true. This does not, however, mean Ruri doesn't care about other people, that's a really extreme read to jump to. This chapter is all about Ruri trying to figure out how much she can do to respond to what Maeda has right, and worrying (reasonably) about how Maeda feels given what she has wrong. Good stuff.

On an unrelated note I have to say I appreciate any forum with a robust blocklist.

 

[theShear]

Oh nice a new Chapter.
"Reads the Chapter"
"Goes to the Forum to discuss it"
"Sees ... 'it'"
Nevermind

 

[WaffleIroner]

Yeah, but it's licensed. I don't do licensed works.

To boot, there's always a bunch of angry morons who complain about my work because they've decided the original was the correct translation. The latest one was Harem Choukyou 48, where the TL openly admitted to "Taking liberties" with certain lines, translated "hey" as "Henlo", turning the character into a retard, and ruined the joke in the last page. Guess who still has morons popping up in random threads telling me mine was the bad one. (Hint: Me)

Not a lot of incentive to break my "No licensed works" thing.

What? Surly that must be a mistake. If it were true, it would imply that a strictly literalist translation of the original japanese didn't lead to a better reading experience!

No, clearly it is the readers who are wrong.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

What? Surly that must be a mistake. If it were true, it would imply that a strictly literalist translation of the original japanese didn't lead to a better reading experience!

No, clearly it is the readers who are wrong.

Really it's the translator that was wrong. The readers simply didn't think there was a difference between the two versions, despite one character not being retarded anymore. They don't know any better, and their complaints aren't rational in the first place. The readers don't have to care about what the source material says (Though I wonder why not just make up their own if that's the case). The translator, on the other hand, is the one guy who really should care about exactly what they say.

But if your POV is "People enjoy a story better when it's not the one the author wrote", then this isn't the talk to be involved in. Since this is for people who actually care what the original said.

Like, I may be dunking on @anf here, but at least he's concerned with whether this is reflecting the story as it was written. We're debating whether this is a translation, or a re-write. He may be on the losing side of the argument, but let nobody say he doesn't give a fuck about the source material. Unlike you, apparently.

 

[theShear]

Like, I may be dunking on @anf here, but at least he's concerned with whether this is reflecting the story as it was written. We're debating whether this is a translation, or a re-write. He may be on the losing side of the argument, but let nobody say he doesn't give a fuck about the source material. Unlike you, apparently.

...Uhm no offense but I pretty much just went fresh over the thread and I'm not sure if others here agree that he is on the "losing side" as you call it. Yeah you post a lot or replies but honestly they don't seem very convincing to me. Especially one of the above where you pretty much picked points to argue against instead of replying to the whole thing in context. It's not very good practice for a good discussion.
Honestly as someone who for roughly a decade did professional Translation and Localization work from English to German and vice versa I want to say a lot but this would lead to even more of an argument so I stay out of this. Honestly I'm too old for Internet fights.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

..Uhm no offense but I pretty much just went fresh over the thread not sure if others here agree that he is on the "losing side" as you call it.

If you look carefully, "my side" consists of me (A translator), @YamiryuuZero (Probably a better translator), and people who are either learning Japanese, or know what words like "Extrovert" mean.

The "Other side" barring the guy I'm arguing with, is composed of people who don't speak the language, and don't care what the source material says: People who hear "That's not what they said", and respond with a unanimous "So?"

If you care what the latter says, then more power to you; I don't.

Especially one of the above where you pretty much picked points to argue against instead of replying to the whole thing in context.

What do you mean?

 

[anf]

Yeah, but it's licensed. I don't do licensed works.

To boot, there's always a bunch of angry morons who complain about my work because they've decided the original was the correct translation. The latest one was Harem Choukyou 48, where the TL openly admitted to "Taking liberties" with certain lines, translated "hey" as "Henlo", turning the character into a retard, and ruined the joke in the last page. Guess who still has morons popping up in random threads telling me mine was the bad one. (Hint: Me)

Not a lot of incentive to break my "No licensed works" thing.

Well I know who I'm inviting to my next gaming session! Anyway, I find that by this point in the conversation, telling them you do, in fact, understand Japanese is pointless. Between the primacy effect, and this type of reader not actually caring about the source material, they'll just double down and tell you that you're making things up.

Oh my god, but of course! There aren't a lot of sarcastic statements in japanese, but だよね? Oh yeah, she picked the most sarcastic one right off the bad! I can be so stupid sometimes.

🤨

Thanks for the correction. I mean it. But... so?


Yes, that's literally the basis of sarcasm.

That's banter, not sarcasm. The difference between the two is thus:

I do something easy, and tell you it's a pain, It's a joke/banter.

When you do something I think is easy, and I tell you it sounds like a pain, intending for everyone to know that I actually mean it's easy, and you're exaggerating/whining, that's sarcasm.

Never been used sarcastically. Plenty of times a woman's said it to put on a meek act in front of a man, and keep the conversation going.

No, that would be "Atarimae da". That would be suitably rude/deadpan for the situation, and would imply the force of character that the "localizer" wants to give her. She just plainly concurred with mom, because the joke is that mom is comically underreacting. This isn't a Manzai bit.

The only time you "Gussy a line up" is when it doesn't translate fully. This translated just fine.

You're projecting your own cultural values onto her, and validating the "You don't care about people" complaint that she got, when in the original, it was inaccurate.

Thanks for the correction. I mean it. But... so?

Well, you made that mistake twice. It kinda uncut whatever nonsense you were saying when you couldn't even regurgitate the dialogue correctly.

So yea, I'm pretty convinced that your grasp of english and japanese is rudimentary at best dude. That, or you're just an attention seeking troll lmao. The latter is what I'm leaning towards considering some of the garbage interpretations you've had in this thread.

No, that would be "Atarimae da"

Yet another phrase that could be translated in any of number of ways depending on the context. This may be hard for you to understand at this point in your Japanese comprehension, but there is almost never a 1-to-1 translation of Japanese into English.

Here's the definition of sarcasm for you since you seem to struggle with it: "Most noticeable in spoken word, sarcasm is mainly distinguished by the inflection with which it is spoken or, with an undercurrent of irony, by the extreme disproportion of the comment to the situation, and is largely context-dependent."

Sarcasm is all about context and tone of voice. Since this is a manga, what we go off of are these things called context clues. The context here is that Ruri is responding in a deadpan way to an incredibly unhelpful comment from her mom with an annoyed expression on her face.

Never been used sarcastically.

ok bud, funniest shit I've read today.
Here's an example for you of some sarcasm from nozaki-kun: chapter 3

The only time you "Gussy a line up" is when it doesn't translate fully. This translated just fine.

Clearly not, because you are having some major difficulties understanding the flow of the conversation between the mom and Ruri.

 

[theShear]

What do you mean?

...Uhm, is this a joke? You pretty much did it again.
On a side note I think you must have missed it but some of the guys that argue with you do translate and speak Japanese. So do I by the way but I don't do localization work for it (despite it being the reason I learned it to begin with more than 20 years ago) because localising lines from Japanese to English or German is rather difficult due to the differences. I just used the dark powers I learned and started reading raws though I do enjoy reading translation and localization works because I am quite interested how people handle certain things. Like for example you have a character who's quirk is their text is only written in Katakana with no single Kanji or Hiragana in sight. How do they handle it? Do they just translate it, losing all the strangeness or are they trying stuff to keep the effect (Like one used a obviously different font for example).
By the way, do you know why a writer would specifically use Katakana and no Kanji? What kind of character do you think it was? Hint: Remember what Katakana is usually used for.
In addition lemme just leave one sentence from my Trainer.
"You translate a Manual but localize a story". To understand this you need to understand what Localization actually is. Something I think is lost here in this discussion.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Well, you made that mistake twice. It kinda uncut whatever nonsense you were saying when you couldn't even regurgitate the dialogue correctly.

Did it, though? It's essentially the same statement, except one is slightly more feminine.

So yea, I'm pretty convinced that your grasp of english and japanese is rudimentary at best dude. That, or you're just an attention seeking troll lmao. The latter is what I'm leaning towards considering some of the garbage interpretations you've had in this thread.

It's weird that I've got the guy who doesn't know what sarcasm means is telling me I have a worse grasp of English than him, and the same guy, who thinks "だよね" is a sarcastic response, that I have a worse grasp of Japanese than him.

I went ahead and ran the scene by the newest version of GPT (IT CAN READ THE TEXT IN THE IMAGE NOW!), juuuust to make sure I'm not being the retard here (It happens sometimes, you know). Guess what I got:

Spoiler: I'm right.

I'm guessing your response is "WELL THE MACHINE IS STUPID TOO, AND SO IS THAT OTHER TRANSLATOR GUY. WHAT'S HIS FACE... @YamiryuuZero "

Not that the truth is a democracy or anything, but you've got an AI superintelligence, and two translators outright telling you you're wrong. Maybe dial the smug back.

Yet another phrase that could be translated in any of number of ways depending on the context. This may be hard for you to understand at this point in your Japanese comprehension, but there is almost never a 1-to-1 translation of Japanese into English.

Yeah, in this context it would be rude, sassy... rather like "Obviously", though not exactly, given the fact that Japanese has a wide variety of politeness levels when speaking, and the people have their own cultural expectations for what's appropriate when, and with who. It would inform the reader that while she is worried about her current predicament, she's got the presence of mind to give attitude to even her own parent. It may even suggest that this is her way of coping with stress, if this becomes a pattern.

She didn't say that, though.

Here's the definition of sarcasm for you since you seem to struggle with it:

I'm wondering how old you are, and what your first language is at this point.

ok bud, funniest shit I've read today.

"Forbidden​

You don't have permission to access this resource."

Also, you think だよね is sarcastic. I don't imagine I'll see anything convincing, even if I get access.

Clearly not, because you are having some major difficulties understanding the flow of the conversation between the mom and Ruri.

Three out of three Japanese speakers agree: It's you.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

..Uhm, is this a joke? You pretty much did it again.

Fine. Don't answer the question.

 

[theShear]

Alright yeah I saw enough. No offense BV but it's rather obvious you pretty much "Read what you want to read". Seriously "Three out of three Japanese speakers agree: It's you."? I would suggest rereading this forum Topic from the beginning but I know you won't. I'm not even going into your "Proof" since people more fluent in English than me will rip into it. As someone above said "I appreciate any forum with a robust blocklist." so I'm out of this.

 

[Hicleric]

Probably best just to set the petulant troll to ignore and get back to enjoying the cute story for what it is. Pathological narcissists feed off the sense of control they get from arguments like these, and engaging with them only encourages worse behavior over time.

There's a deep irony in seeing a fracas like the above in a thread about a chapter entirely built around people not understanding each other. I mean, the joy of reading a SoL journey is watching it evolve over time and contemplate how my own perception of the characters change, rather than relying on unverifiable interpretations of what is "correct" at any point in the story. Because at the end of the day, regardless of language or culture, readers are guaranteed to have built an image in their head wholly differing from the author's intentions.

 

[WaffleIroner]

Guys, all this talk about the noble art of translation has inspired me, and I've begun work on what I now believe to be the one true translation:

I had to take some liberties when adapting to the new medium, but I think I was faithful to the source material.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Guys, all this talk about the noble art of translation has inspired me, and I've begun work on what I now believe to be the one true translation:

I had to take some liberties when adapting to the new medium, but I think I was faithful to the source material.

Already more accurate than the official "localization"!

EDIT: Looking at it closer, I'm noticing some issues with the middle panel. There's a disconnect with the response: They're talking past each other. But at least you used the words they used. Which is more than can be said for the loser that "localized" the manga.

 

[toapat]

She just needs Maeda or WhatsHerName to draw her idea, add a dragon on the top of the waterfall maybe too.

Draw? they have a dragon right there who is obligated to show up and forbidden to do anything. And it comes with its own pyrotechnics

 

[WaffleIroner]

Already more accurate than the official "localization"!

EDIT: Looking at it closer, I'm noticing some issues with the middle panel. There's a disconnect with the response: They're talking past each other. But at least you used the words they used. Which is more than can be said for the loser that "localized" the manga.

While it may come across as clunky when transcribed in english, the talking past each other is definitely present in the raws. This is very common in flamewar texts. You can always tell an amateur translator when they attempt to have the speakers acknowledge each other's points. Native flamewar speakers do not do this.