Chiyu Mahou no Machigatta Tsukaikata ~Senjou wo Kakeru Kaifuku Youin~ - Ch. 85

[qaaj]

It's too late, author. I have already headcanoned the two characters with similar powers meeting for the first time as dating.

 

[Konrad2]

Thanks for the scanlation.

 

[cesar024]

Always go for the japanese honorific ,we are all weebs no newbie who dont know their signification !

 

[happyhafer]

personally i would prefer staying with japanese honorifics.
the english versions don't mean the same things.
while -sama is used for nobles and high ranking people, it is also used for personally respected people. in this story usato is respected and the leader of his group but using lord as english version only implies noble rank, which he doesn't have as far as i remember.
if you stick to making -san meaning mister/misses, that i can live with but -sama should stay -sama.

 

[Ninoren]

Usato not wanting to hurt/kill anyone before was whatever considering he didn't fight actual "villains", but now it's really just frustrating when you think about him putting everyone in danger against people with clear intent to kill whoever they come across

 

[AnotherDuck]

I prefer English translations of Japanese words, honorifics or not. This is an English translation, so English words should be used. The purpose of a translation is to let people who don't know the original language and how it's used to understand the story. Sure, some cultural context might be lost, but it's lost anyway if you don't fully understand the language and culture.

A lot of readers, and translators, understand less of that than they claim. Just the fact that every time you see discussions you see different explanations for what the honorifics mean and imply, and that translators don't always use the closest English equivalence should prove how little meaning is actually preserved by using the Japanese words that isn't there in English.

Apparently those orders don't include showing respect to your superior.

"One friend isn't enough of a reason to get involved."

If that one friend is enough to influence the battles as much as he can, then it is a reason, even if you don't consider friendship important.

How nice of her to explain how her power works.

If she's become fire itself, spill some water on her.

"How cute..."

Aww, she likes him.

How nice of her to wait for him to prepare himself.

Actually kinda cool.

Well, people were complaining about him being too strong last time, time for the other side to complain that he shouldn't ever get his ass beat.

Also, neat to see the knight's got some power too, just needs to work on his control proper or something.

omg y this npc is stronker than mc??!?!?1

 

[dexdoujinmanga]

No way...!

... Sir Cliffhanger!

 

[Anonyan]

I prefer English translations of Japanese words, honorifics or not. This is an English translation, so English words should be used. The purpose of a translation is to let people who don't know the original language and how it's used to understand the story. Sure, some cultural context might be lost, but it's lost anyway if you don't fully understand the language and culture.

A lot of readers, and translators, understand less of that than they claim. Just the fact that every time you see discussions you see different explanations for what the honorifics mean and imply, and that translators don't always use the closest English equivalence should prove how little meaning is actually preserved by using the Japanese words that isn't there in English.

Some people getting things wrong isn't a good justification to support translations that get it even more wrong as a baseline.

Honorifics aren't some super obscure thing that never ever comes up, and there's not 500 different ones to learn. Anyone who's been enough of a weeb to look up non-mainstream manga to read is ALREADY familiar with most of them and those who aren't will become so very quickly. And, most importantly, someone not knowing what an honorific means doesn't make them understand the story any LESS than if it's translated into a nonequivalent title that actively misleads people as to characters' relationships. It's more information for the people who understand them, and the people who don't understand them don't lose any information just by them being there. I don't care for your weak claim of "there's multiple different explanations which means nobody understands it." Yeah, I have a little cousin who got into weebshit by second-hand exposure who tried to explain to people that "senpai" means "your crush who you want to notice you." I don't care. Random stray people being wrong on the internet here and there does not represent the majority of rational readers and you should not cater to people who lack understanding by removing even more information so they end up understanding even less.

Rather than hemming and hawing about how honorifics aren't english words and therefore they should NEVER be in english translations because nobody could EVER figure them it, it'd be a lot easier to simply normalize japanese honorifics being included in every single translation, and the few people who don't already grasp them will very quickly figure it out from exposure. If people not understanding them is the problem, why would you not just make an effort to make it more understood so translation can be simpler and more accurate? Obviously you can't take that logic too far because at some point you stop translating and are just asking people to learn a langauge, but for something as ubiquitous as honorifics which people engage with anyway, it's not a big ask.
There's so many nonsensical arguments about all the different ways you can replace honorics or do without them but there's not actually a single reasonable argument about what harm leaving them in does besides "it's not english and you should only use english words" which is absolutely perposterous when it comes to reading niche japanese works.
You never see this kind of hogwash when it comes to media from any other foreign nation, where if a unique word comes up that's relevant to the culture and context of the work, they simply briefly explain it and move on. If readers are allergic to seeing french words, they wouldn't be watching french films, but for some reason japanese attracts all this nonsense about how translations must be PURE and any non-english words in this translation of non-english media RUINS the translation.

Whatever. I've accepted over the years that there's a plague of condescension among japanese translators who think that expecting your readers to learn new things is "unprofessional."
But what is blatantly and obviously worse than removing honorifics is trying to replace them with something else. If you don't like honorifics and don't want them in your translation, then just get rid of them. It's so, so much worse to say "I don't want the honorofics here, but instead of replacing it with contextually accurate information I'm just going to do some shitty 1:1 translation with another english title which is actively incorrect."
Bro calling Usato "Lord" is not accurate to their relationship. That's the generic basic assumed translation of "-dono" in the context of like, a shinobi answering to his daimyo or some shit like that, and makes NO sense for their relationship, being actively misleading rather than just excluding information. It's the same kind of bullshit as when a girl calls an older girl she looks up to "onee-sama" and people decide to translate it as "big sister" or "sissy" or some dumb shit which DOES NOT MAKE SENSE IN ENGLISH because that's not what she's saying and that's not what their relationship is, in english people don't refer to non-family as siblings in that way. Usato isn't a lord. Ark doesn't see him as a lord. He's not in that kind of position of superiority. Translating "dono" as "lord" is not just excluding information, it's actively misrepresenting shit and is worse than just dropping the title all together.

tl;dr: this is a bad decision, inaccurate information is worse than no information at all, and if they MUST drop honorifics because of the cancerous "no japanese words in the japanese media" mindset, then they should just drop them entirely rather than trying to translate them into something that doesn't make sense.

 

[Tarasios]

I prefer English translations of Japanese words, honorifics or not. This is an English translation, so English words should be used. The purpose of a translation is to let people who don't know the original language and how it's used to understand the story. Sure, some cultural context might be lost, but it's lost anyway if you don't fully understand the language and culture.

A lot of readers, and translators, understand less of that than they claim. Just the fact that every time you see discussions you see different explanations for what the honorifics mean and imply, and that translators don't always use the closest English equivalence should prove how little meaning is actually preserved by using the Japanese words that isn't there in English.

Thank you.

That is exactly the philosophy I am following. Honorifics are preserved when translated, then I use them when I PR as tonal indicators.

And I do this as a fan of the series as well, taking my understanding of the characters into account. Ark addresses Usato"-dono" as a knight. Referring to him as "sir" Usato. Not sir as in mister, but sir as in the proper knightly sir as a show of proper respect.

Someone using -san doesn't immediately mean they're a "mister" either. It might not be appropriate to use that, so instead I note that the character just might not be 10000% casual. Often enough, it does end up being mostly a tonal indicator.

I also recognize that a lot of the people reading the manga... Might not read tons of manga in general like I do. Someone could be reading a manga for the first time and the honorifics can be distracting and confusing to them.

I do plan to continue doing this in the future, as I try to do for every project I PR for. I hope those who prefer Japanese honorifics understand where I'm coming from, and can trust that I am doing the best I can.

 

[Tarasios]

Bro calling Usato "Lord" is not accurate to their relationship. That's the generic basic assumed translation of "-dono" in the context of like, a shinobi answering to his daimyo or some shit like that, and makes NO sense for their relationship, being actively misleading rather than just excluding information.

That's why he calls Usato "sir", in the knightly sense.

 

[hayatekanzaki]

Ark has managed to surpass himself and break through the wall of flames. However what our heroes see is Usato in a bad position about to be defeated the enemy commander. Will he survive this attack or will he be defeated? Will he come up with another badly named attack? And does Ark have a potential wife just now?

Find out this and more next time on Wrong Way to use Heal Magic Z.

 

[Anonyan]

That's why he calls Usato "sir", in the knightly sense.

Aight, I will admit I saw him call Hayate "lord" and conflated the two in my head when I saw that other post and decided to go on my rant, but lord does make sense in that context considering the dude's position. This TL isn't as bad as I made it out to be.

I stand by what I said though, I simply cannot agree with this idea that pure english is some perfect paradigm that must be preserved. Normalizing japanese honorifics across translations would simply be a net gain and make things easier across the board. At absolute worst, someone who has never interacted with japanese media before sees some words they don't understand, and can simply ignore them if they don't want to learn about them, losing absolutely no knowledge vs a TL where honorofics are dropped. And that's only the worst case, because the average reader will have no problem figuring it out if they don't already have an understanding going in.

I know this is a fight that has been raging for decades and I'm only shouting into the void at this point, but the older I get the sillier the whole thing seems to me. I've seen plenty of people upset about honorifics being dropped, loads of people upset about honorifics being changed, but I've never actually seen anyone upset about honorifics being included. At most, someone comes forward to say "this was a good idea, actually" when honorifics are dropped mid translation, but clearly it didn't bug them personally enough to complain about it before the change was made! It just seems to me like translators have a kind of condecending attitude (though I know this isn't the intent) where they see readers as stupid english-only babies who couldn't possibly cope with seeing foreign words in their foreign media, but the reality is that for something as prevalent as honorifics it's just much easier to expect people to learn it, and those who don't understand what they're reading will only have to punch through that barrier once on their first honorific-included manga/anime, and it's smooth sailing from there.
By doing everything they can to avoid honorifics, people are just making it harder on themselves, because there's so many scenes people run into where the high schoolers drop honorifics and there's a big hootenanny about it, readers will interact with it sooner or later and I've never met a weeb who doesn't have at least a basic grasp of honorifics after a couple years, even if they're on team no-jp-words.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk: Old Man Yells at Cloud

 

[HelioCesar]

Glad to see i am not alone in thinking they have some chemistry, Ark is a dearie!

 

[NesfrutaPH]

Usato why are you pretending to be injured just heal yourself mans smh my head

 

[Artimid]

This chapter was... so cringe. The dialog was almost exactly like a parody of overdramatic chunni fights. Ugh.

 

[AlohaBorealis]

Dang you two. Stop flirting on the battlefield!

JK keep it up

 

[Snailman32]

So is that just the go-to tactic for all high level demons? Wrap yourself in magic? Have a little originality, come on

 

[rastavarilla]

Goddamn the flame demon keep yapping

 

[habla]

why are all these demons so nice
if this wasn't a healing magic mango I'd want her to be wounded so arc could have a nursing arc with her

 

[Tarasios]

This chapter was... so cringe. The dialog was almost exactly like a parody of overdramatic chunni fights. Ugh.

Yeah that's just... How they both talk... Extremely painful. I did what I could to make it tolerable but it really is just that annoying raw.