I Want to Love You Till Your Dying Day - Ch. 38.5 - To Waver

[shemper]

And also cause they feel more comfortable presenting in masculine ways. Gender identity and presentation have never been smfh compleatly separated and idk why you are trying so hard to go against the trans coding of a character in a FRICKING QUEER STORY

So now we are going to pretend liking a few boy-ish things makes you trans? Unless the author clearly communicated it and i missed it?

 

[emmadrew]

What you like doing or wearing has nothing to do with gender though?

Haru literally wonders if she wants to be a boy. Even if she decides she isn't, she is still, by definition, exploring her gender.

 

[vvboondoggirl]

The character is explicitly questioning gender identity, and as it stands, the vast majority of cis ppl never really do this as intently or carefully as depicted here so yes, it is trans coded, heavily. I can smell "you transes are the ones reinforcing regressive stereotypes" schlock a mile away, lets not have any of that. The text clearly had the character discern there was something explicitly behind the liking of "a few boy things" that werent actually a few things and was actually major aspects of gender presentation.

 

[peacegiant]

Unless the author clearly communicated it and i missed it?

yeah I mean based on your other comments, both about the chapter as well as other people's comments, you don't strike me as the kind of person that owns eyeballs, so that might be the issue here

I think what's happening is you really don't want this chapter about a character questioning her gender identity to be a chapter about a character questioning her gender identity (I'm sure you have your reasons), which probably feels not great for you since this chapter is pretty explicitly about a character questioning her gender identity.

I'd say re-read it, but I doubt you care what's actually on the page.

 

[shemper]

yeah I mean based on your other comments, both about the chapter as well as other people's comments, you don't strike me as the kind of person that owns eyeballs, so that might be the issue here

I think what's happening is you really don't want this chapter about a character questioning her gender identity to be a chapter about a character questioning her gender identity (I'm sure you have your reasons), which probably feels not great for you since this chapter is pretty explicitly about a character questioning her gender identity.

I'd say re-read it, but I doubt you care what's actually on the page.

Ok with how you behave i won't keep what should be a conversation, good day

 

[peacegiant]

Ok with how you behave i won't keep what should be a conversation, good day

There wasn’t a conversation to begin with ✌️

 

[VillxKomari]

Eh. Haru's a boring character. I don't care about her or her issues.

 

[BluePhoenixcg]

What you like doing or wearing has nothing to do with gender though?

I know others have responded to this very well, but I do want to point out that what you like wearing very much has to do with gender presentation. The topic of gender is not as simple as "wears girl clothes, therefore girl" or vice versa, but it's also not as simple as "girl or boy". Gender is a complex network of interconnected topics including presentation, and exploration of that can mean something as simple as wearing clothes not associated with your gender or something more radical like wondering if you might identify more with a different gender entirely. On top of that, exploration is still exploration if you end up in the same place you started, so Haru wondering if she might be a boy is still exploration even if she decided she's still cis in the end.

 

[shemper]

I know others have responded to this very well, but I do want to point out that what you like wearing very much has to do with gender presentation. The topic of gender is not as simple as "wears girl clothes, therefore girl" or vice versa, but it's also not as simple as "girl or boy". Gender is a complex network of interconnected topics including presentation, and exploration of that can mean something as simple as wearing clothes not associated with your gender or something more radical like wondering if you might identify more with a different gender entirely. On top of that, exploration is still exploration if you end up in the same place you started, so Haru wondering if she might be a boy is still exploration even if she decided she's still cis in the end.

Here's a simple fact, the modern concept of gender is complexe because it originally was never meant to be used on humans up until the last century. What i'm having a hard time with is people basically claiming a middle schooler is trans only because she dislike her sister's skirt and like shorts and were told it's for boys, not girls. Imo, It's way too early to even think about trans and you should let the kid grow up and find themselves rather than pushing your view onto others (wait 'til the strikes come for this comment)

 

[BluePhoenixcg]

What i'm having a hard time with is people basically claiming a middle schooler is trans only because she dislike her sister's skirt and like shorts and were told it's for boys, not girls. Imo, It's way too early to even think about trans and you should let the kid grow up and find themselves rather than pushing your view onto others

It's clear to me from this bit that you have never spoken to a trans person about their experiences, or if you have you didn't pay attention to anything they said. Thinking about gender is growing up and finding yourself, for a lot of people. Wondering why you don't fit with others expectations for you based on your gender is something a lot of trans people struggle with at a young age. Nobody is trying to push their view onto others, they're relating to a character who is being very explicitly depicted as going through something very similar to their own experiences.
Intentionally or not(though to be clear I think it's 100% intentional) this chapter reflects the lived experience of a lot of trans people, and people who don't conform to the standard expectations of their gender.
You cannot avoid this fact. It's not some obscure reading or subtext, it's the explicit text of the story.

 

[shemper]

It's clear to me from this bit that you have never spoken to a trans person about their experiences, or if you have you didn't pay attention to anything they said. Thinking about gender is growing up and finding yourself, for a lot of people. Wondering why you don't fit with others expectations for you based on your gender is something a lot of trans people struggle with at a young age. Nobody is trying to push their view onto others, they're relating to a character who is being very explicitly depicted as going through something very similar to their own experiences.
Intentionally or not(though to be clear I think it's 100% intentional) this chapter reflects the lived experience of a lot of trans people, and people who don't conform to the standard expectations of their gender.
You cannot avoid this fact. It's not some obscure reading or subtext, it's the explicit text of the story.

Damn now i'm learning from randos i never spoke with my cousin, crazy

 

[rollerschuh]

i love this chapter and manga sm! as a nonbinary person i relate very well to haru and feel seen, it's so well depicted and handled with love and care that every young trans and gender-questioning person deserves!<3

 

[Lilliwyt]

And now, see it being completly forgotten afterwards.

 

[Othingl]

Here's a simple fact, the modern concept of gender is complexe because it originally was never meant to be used on humans up until the last century. What i'm having a hard time with is people basically claiming a middle schooler is trans only because she dislike her sister's skirt and like shorts and were told it's for boys, not girls. Imo, It's way too early to even think about trans and you should let the kid grow up and find themselves rather than pushing your view onto others (wait 'til the strikes come for this comment)

Well, I definitely agree that the character dislikes skirts equals trans or trans-coded, but I disagree that it's too early to think about the topic. Some people know from the start if they're trans some take 50 years, in the vast expanse that is the human expirience there are absolutely people who have questioned who they are in this way at that age. I especially believe it for Haru because she seems to be a character who thinks about complex topics for fun, the questions she has in this chapter aren't that hard to think up, and her choices of dress have been pointed out to her or shamed at least a few times.

 

[shemper]

Well, I definitely agree that the character dislikes skirts equals trans or trans-coded, but I disagree that it's too early to think about the topic. Some people know from the start if they're trans some take 50 years, in the vast expanse that is the human expirience there are absolutely people who have questioned who they are in this way at that age. I especially believe it for Haru because she seems to be a character who thinks about complex topics for fun, the questions she has in this chapter aren't that hard to think up, and her choices of dress have been pointed out to her or shamed at least a few times.

Point is, if people didn't have all those preconception and stereotypes in their mind, the question likely wouldn't have come up for her

 

[Othingl]

Point is, if people didn't have all those preconception and stereotypes in their mind, the question likely wouldn't have come up for her

Agree to disagree on that point because well yes that may be the case, society does not exist in the absence of those preconceptions and stereotypes. And I don't think we've had enough recorded cases of feral humans to make that call.

 

[shemper]

Agree to disagree on that point because well yes that may be the case, society does not exist in the absence of those preconceptions and stereotypes. And I don't think we've had enough recorded cases of feral humans to make that call.

I'm not saying it can exist without them, just that people should accept more the differences between us, after all we each are unique