Isekai wa Smartphone to Tomo ni - Vol. 9 Ch. 45 - Episode 45
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2018
- Messages
- 877
thx for the chapter
Active member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2020
- Messages
- 125
Ara ara intensifies
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2018
- Messages
- 18
I know Japan is full of sexist bullcrap about women being too old to marry and whatnot - see: "Christmas cakes" - but being an aunt (or uncle) has nothing to do with how old someone is. I've been an uncle since I was seven years old. It shouldn't be presented as such a big deal.
Group Leader
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2018
- Messages
- 141
@tuatara1 I think it is pretty much an Asian culture, as I have seen similar sentiment in many Asian countries (east asians, india, south east asians). It's not limited to women (~>25 y.o = too old) but men (~>30 y.o = too old) too. However, I think, being unmarried on late 20s or 30s has become much more normalized in the younger Asian generation. So I don't agree with this being Japan only thing. Even the MC has commented on this issue in this very chapter too.
About addressing one's parent's siblings as "uncle" or "aunt" totally depends on each person and culture, imo. You might don't mind it but I believe someone does, but in a culture where familial hierarchy is important/sacred, then each family member has to address other member with the correct title. Also, it's not that uncommon to hear an uncle/aunt being called as brother/sister or even by names, when the uncle/aunt and the niece/nephew are close in age disregarding their familial hierarchy, or at least in my experience.
About addressing one's parent's siblings as "uncle" or "aunt" totally depends on each person and culture, imo. You might don't mind it but I believe someone does, but in a culture where familial hierarchy is important/sacred, then each family member has to address other member with the correct title. Also, it's not that uncommon to hear an uncle/aunt being called as brother/sister or even by names, when the uncle/aunt and the niece/nephew are close in age disregarding their familial hierarchy, or at least in my experience.
I see our translator was taken in by Hololive. @lapizlazuli
... I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND, YOU DID NOTHING WRONG PEKO
... I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND, YOU DID NOTHING WRONG PEKO
@lapizlazuli I'm specifically talking about Japan and Japanese media's tendency to present most female characters as being deeply worried about any hint that they're "old," along with the societal bias against being an unmarried woman past roughly the age of 25.
Yes, that societal bias exists in many other countries beyond Japan; it can even still be found in the U.S. But the combination of female characters being intensely worried about being "old" and other characters treating them as "too old to marry" seems to be especially common in Japanese media. (And remember, this series isn't set in Japan, so these standards even get applied to toally fictional cultures.)
That's why I criticized her reaction to being called an aunt even though she literally is one. The title doesn't mean someone is old. It simply means that their sibling had a child. I understand that such titles can be considered cultural signs of respect, but her reaction made clear that that's not the problem here.
It was the same reaction you can find in countless other manga and anime when a non-elderly woman gets called that. It's also quite similar to how almost every female character without huge breasts is shown as being jealous of any character with larger breasts than her. Rather than being an accurate reflection of how most women do (or should) view themselves, what it really reflects are the biases that the many male writers carry - often without realizing it - about how most women think about themselves and other women.
Yes, that societal bias exists in many other countries beyond Japan; it can even still be found in the U.S. But the combination of female characters being intensely worried about being "old" and other characters treating them as "too old to marry" seems to be especially common in Japanese media. (And remember, this series isn't set in Japan, so these standards even get applied to toally fictional cultures.)
That's why I criticized her reaction to being called an aunt even though she literally is one. The title doesn't mean someone is old. It simply means that their sibling had a child. I understand that such titles can be considered cultural signs of respect, but her reaction made clear that that's not the problem here.
It was the same reaction you can find in countless other manga and anime when a non-elderly woman gets called that. It's also quite similar to how almost every female character without huge breasts is shown as being jealous of any character with larger breasts than her. Rather than being an accurate reflection of how most women do (or should) view themselves, what it really reflects are the biases that the many male writers carry - often without realizing it - about how most women think about themselves and other women.
Group Leader
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2018
- Messages
- 141
@tuatara1 I doubt it being a Japanese and Japanese media's thing tho. It might appear like that because of the limited exposure of Asian media due to language barrier or interest. I mean, the "old virgin woman" stigma/trope can still be seen not only in J-Drama but also in K-Drama and C-Drama, and I dare to say in other Asian media too. Although, I think both Japan and Korea are now being the lead on abolishing that stigma based on the seemingly increasing number of female being single in their 30s in those countries. If any, this trope usually ties to being old-school and this is why I have doubts about your statement.
For the story itself, it is set in Middle Age tho. I have no idea what kind of value did people back then have during this period, especially in the European continent. However, I can see why would the author think that such old school thinking might persist during this period of time.
I do agree that familial hierarchy titles do not correlate with age, they are just a name to define the relationship of two people in the family tree. However, I have seen some people who took those title seriously and would prefer to be called sis/bro or direct name calling instead of being called aunt/uncle. They might be a minority but this kind of people does exist. The problem might be come from how overly used this trope is in manga as a comedic value. This part is quite subjective and that's what I can say about it.
About the jealousy story trope, well, Asian people in Asia like to compare themselves with other in all aspect of life consciously or unconsciously so there's some truth in that trope. Also, looking on how the author using stereotypical archtype in his story, I think having a better female characterization is just asking too much. Alternatively, it is just an overused comedic trope and we're thinking too deep about it.
For the story itself, it is set in Middle Age tho. I have no idea what kind of value did people back then have during this period, especially in the European continent. However, I can see why would the author think that such old school thinking might persist during this period of time.
I do agree that familial hierarchy titles do not correlate with age, they are just a name to define the relationship of two people in the family tree. However, I have seen some people who took those title seriously and would prefer to be called sis/bro or direct name calling instead of being called aunt/uncle. They might be a minority but this kind of people does exist. The problem might be come from how overly used this trope is in manga as a comedic value. This part is quite subjective and that's what I can say about it.
About the jealousy story trope, well, Asian people in Asia like to compare themselves with other in all aspect of life consciously or unconsciously so there's some truth in that trope. Also, looking on how the author using stereotypical archtype in his story, I think having a better female characterization is just asking too much. Alternatively, it is just an overused comedic trope and we're thinking too deep about it.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2019
- Messages
- 7
I think you’d be fine omitting the “-wa” particle from Lucia’s lines. It might serve a function in the original Japanese but in an English translation it doesn’t serve any function whatsoever. This differentiates it from things like honorifics (ex. “-san” or “-chan”) as it doesn’t even point to some unspoken nuance in the characters’ relationships like they do.
And even in Japanese, isn’t it just a stylistic thing that doesn’t really add meaning but rather points at the social status of the user? I’ve seen “proper lady”/“rich girl” types use it in anime. Being a princess, that may be why Lucia uses it.
Sorry if I come across as overbearing or arrogant here. That’s not my intention.
And even in Japanese, isn’t it just a stylistic thing that doesn’t really add meaning but rather points at the social status of the user? I’ve seen “proper lady”/“rich girl” types use it in anime. Being a princess, that may be why Lucia uses it.
Sorry if I come across as overbearing or arrogant here. That’s not my intention.
Group Leader
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2018
- Messages
- 141
@KaitouRed010 this argument can be used in any imperfect translation tho. Like how I left Yae's "-de gozaru", Rosetta's "-de arimasu", Goddess of Love's "-nanoyo", Linze's "-desu" and any future character verbal tics. It's just that this series has such a thing for its characters.
Yup, it is stylistic, mainly heard in feminine speech manner (in fiction, rarely in RL) and not necessary for "proper lady/rich girl". It means nothing other than to soften the speech, to make it less manly. Lucia and Yumina both are princesses and have the same level of speech politeness but Lucia adds -wa extensively in her speech while Yumina doesn't really use it, and that's how we differentiate them in the web novel too. So maybe I have attachment with leaving -wa in her speech and count it as her verbal tic.
