Isekai Walking - Vol. 6 Ch. 52 - A New City

[koga88]

This back and forth about the slavery issues in Japanese isekai reminds me that there was an old English fantasy novel series that I read nearly a decade ago that was basically an isekai in retrospect, though I cannot remember the name of it. It involved college students playing a D&D style game only to get sucked into the world of the game as their characters.

One of the elements that became heavily featured after a while was the slavery aspect that existed in the world and how much the player's hated it, going so far as to fight slavers and free slaves wherever possible and it eventually became the driving point of a lot of the sequels, taking over the isekai aspect and even killing a few of the main characters from the battles. There are stories that do tackle that whole aspect, but most of the time it would come at the cost of sacrificing the entirety of the original premise to actually pursue it properly.

Edit: Of course, after writing this and tossing the vague description into Google it instantly popped the series up; Guardians of the Flame.

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

Who in their right mind would build a fortress wall around a wheat field????

Several big ancient cities had multiple sets of walls, including Rome and Constantinople. If you build the first wall around the city, where is the second one supposed to go? Every extra set of walls is one more obstacle for the enemy to break down, making it that much more likely they will run out of resources, political support or just patience.

 

[phorx]

Spoiler: LN spoilers related to slavery since this is getting out of hand

In the end he’s going to end up owning more than one slave, but in all cases it’s done to protect them and he hates it the whole time. So he’s putting his own feelings aside for their benefit. In fact he takes on a lot of horrible things for their sake. He’s almost like a sin-eater

 

[APlatypus]

surely he wont end up getting a slave-girl later right, without buying her or "freeing" her

Let me dream!

 

[SpecialProjectY]

Let me dream!

 

[StealthAria]

YESSS THE MC THINKS SLAVERY IS BAD!!!

He's not taking any action to even try and get the slaves better treatment, let alone doing anything to disband the slave trade, so it's really just he hates the idea of owning a slave and apparently has no qualms with the fact that slavery exists or the treatment those slaves might face from their owners.

 

[Wyrm]

He's not taking any action to even try and get the slaves better treatment, let alone doing anything to disband the slave trade, so it's really just he hates the idea of owning a slave and apparently has no qualms with the fact that slavery exists or the treatment those slaves might face from their owners.

What did you expect him to do at this stage?

He just got a little strong by that world's standards, no way he can go against an established trade, as abhorrent as it is in his eyes. This would immediately brand him a criminal and the whole country would be after him. Even if he gets a little more strength, this would be way beyond his ability.
He would likely have bought the people he's looking for, but he can't just save everyone. So what? He should have bought a random slave to satisfy his conscience? He should have made himself a criminal by raiding the place?

Hating slavery doesn't mean you can just lash out at a slave trader where slave trading is a legal practice. You'd need enormous political influence to change the society or such OP-levels of fighting ability that nobody would dare come after you as you become a "righteous criminal". He has neither.

 

[StealthAria]

This back and forth about the slavery issues in Japanese isekai reminds me that there was an old English fantasy novel series that I read nearly a decade ago that was basically an isekai in retrospect, though I cannot remember the name of it. It involved college students playing a D&D style game only to get sucked into the world of the game as their characters.

One of the elements that became heavily featured after a while was the slavery aspect that existed in the world and how much the player's hated it, going so far as to fight slavers and free slaves wherever possible and it eventually became the driving point of a lot of the sequels, taking over the isekai aspect and even killing a few of the main characters from the battles. There are stories that do tackle that whole aspect, but most of the time it would come at the cost of sacrificing the entirety of the original premise to actually pursue it properly.

Edit: Of course, after writing this and tossing the vague description into Google it instantly popped the series up; Guardians of the Flame.

They don't need to sacrifice the original premise to pursue the abolishment of slavery, they just need to make some big achievement that places them in a position to demand its abolishment and have those demands met. They could even manufacture/fabricate a situation that forces the ruler's hand, like entrapping someone important and putting them in binds then making a big deal of it so the ruler is left with no choice but to start busting up slavers in order to free the person. One arc to solve the slavery issue at least in the area the story takes place, and it doesn't even need the the main premise of that arc, it could just be something that is achieved on the side as a result of some other goal.

There is an issue with simply freeing slaves that no one seems to like bringing up: even if you buy a slave a free them, that doesn't actually get them out of slavery. If the ex-slave has no where to live and no work to pay for basic necessities then they're just going end up back in slavery after taking on debt or getting caught stealing, or they could just be kidnapped and sold into slavery. Even if they don't end up back as actual slaves, they still might be forced to take on some job that was worse than what might've been expected of them as a slave, like being forced into prostitution and having to do the deed with countless strangers every day with no support for any children they might end up conceiving or venereal disease they might contract.
Most stories with slavery actually handle this quite discreetly and without ever mentioning the problem, buy the slave and keep them as slaves but give them all the freedom as if they weren't slaves. This is how most isekai MCs handle it and, while they are still nominally slaves, that status is being flipped into a shield to keep them out of actual slavery while they are for all intents and purposes free, and is sometimes even given other positive effects that would be lost if they were no longer under that protection

 

[StealthAria]

What did you expect him to do at this stage?

He just got a little strong by that world's standards, no way he can go against an established trade, as abhorrent as it is in his eyes. This would immediately brand him a criminal and the whole country would be after him. Even if he gets a little more strength, this would be way beyond his ability.
He would likely have bought the people he's looking for, but he can't just save everyone. So what? He should have bought a random slave to satisfy his conscience? He should have made himself a criminal by raiding the place?

Hating slavery doesn't mean you can just lash out at a slave trader where slave trading is a legal practice. You'd need enormous political influence to change the society or such OP-levels of fighting ability that nobody would dare come after you as you become a "righteous criminal". He has neither.

You can humor the slave trader into thinking you might be interested so they can refer you to other traders so you aren't having to flash a massive sack of cash every time, and while you're at it you could take a look at the slaves they're offering to see if any of them might be useful and provide some treatment if any of them need it, instead of just running sick at the thought the slaver you approached for information would try to sell you a slave. At the very least he could give some kind of objection to the way the slave trader refers to the slaves as goods.

And before anyone tries taking a jab at me for saying he could've checked if any of the slaves might've been useful, you don't hire an employee that is useless or if you have no need of them. If he found someone with skills or knowledge that he needs he could see about buying them and then treat them like a person, instead of balking at the mere thought that might become a slave owner.

 

[Wyrm]

And before anyone tries taking a jab at me for saying he could've checked if any of the slaves might've been useful, you don't hire an employee that is useless or if you have no need of them. If he found someone with skills or knowledge that he needs he could see about buying them and then treat them like a person, instead of balking at the mere thought that might become a slave owner.

That's the option of buying a random slave and actually using the system of slavery... while pretending that you're more humane than others because you're treating your slaves well.
As I mentioned before, you're not freeing a slave, you're giving them some well-being in a life of wandering and fighting for your life that they can't sign out of. It's self-righteousness, not actual righteousness. As long as they're not cruel, a noble or merchant buying them would likely be a better option.

Moreover, the MC has an objective: finding his friends' friends. Buying slaves at random to pretend you're making a dent in the institution of slavery could leave him lacking some funds when he'll truly need them.

Also, this wouldn't make even a dent in the slave trading, quite the opposite. He buys a slave, this shows that there is demand for slaves and the trader will want to renew his stock. They're "goods" to him, so he'll work the same as any other merchant. It doesn't matter if you bought a slave for your own pretense at a conscience or because you want a labor force that can't disobey you. You bought one, that's all that matters to the trader. If anything, the former option gives him an easy mark as you will likely want to "free" more slaves when you have the money for it, regardless of your actual need. This would perpetuate the system, not end it, not even hinder it in the slightest.

As for "give some kind of objection", I'm pretty sure all he would get would be the same treatment he got at first. He's not a customer, and he made it clear that he will not be a customer in the future either, so he's a nuisance pure and simple.

 

[SpecialProjectY]

I'm actually reading a story where mc, got enslaved after being isekaied-reborn and spending some time with villagers got freed himself after a while of enslavement.
He focuses on trying to save just about anyone from the village, he has some benefit of being bought by a cult who trained him as a slave/soldier, can handle moderately with slavers and their henchmen but his actions are slowly being discovered, making it progressively harder, even close to death.

Probabm is, if he does also free someone else, slavers don't carry much gold on themselves and freed slaves either go into crime to survive or get re-captured because they usually don't have nowhere to go.

Slavers operate either under country or in hiding in another, making a ruler of one country ban slavery funnels the trade to other.

 

[StealthAria]

That's the option of buying a random slave and actually using the system of slavery... while pretending that you're more humane than others because you're treating your slaves well.
As I mentioned before, you're not freeing a slave, you're giving them some well-being in a life of wandering and fighting for your life that they can't sign out of. It's self-righteousness, not actual righteousness. As long as they're not cruel, a noble or merchant buying them would likely be a better option.

Moreover, the MC has an objective: finding his friends' friends. Buying slaves at random to pretend you're making a dent in the institution of slavery could leave him lacking some funds when he'll truly need them.

Also, this wouldn't make even a dent in the slave trading, quite the opposite. He buys a slave, this shows that there is demand for slaves and the trader will want to renew his stock. They're "goods" to him, so he'll work the same as any other merchant. It doesn't matter if you bought a slave for your own pretense at a conscience or because you want a labor force that can't disobey you. You bought one, that's all that matters to the trader. If anything, the former option gives him an easy mark as you will likely want to "free" more slaves when you have the money for it, regardless of your actual need. This would perpetuate the system, not end it, not even hinder it in the slightest.

As for "give some kind of objection", I'm pretty sure all he would get would be the same treatment he got at first. He's not a customer, and he made it clear that he will not be a customer in the future either, so he's a nuisance pure and simple.

You're stuck on the idea that slavery in any form and at all levels is pure evil, and are refusing to use your brain at all in this conversation. If he checks out the slaves and finds one with skills or knowledge to supplement his own then that will accelerate his growth so he could gain the power or the authority to have slavery abolished, if he checks out the slaves and treats those that need treatment then on top of at least temporarily improving the slaves' living conditions he could also earn the favor of the slave traders so they're more likely to give him more information. If he's just going into slave traders, demanding information and walking out with a disgusted look on his face then they aren't going to tell him anything even if they know something about the girls' whereabouts, or he might just get blacklisted altogether and get turned away from them everywhere without being able to ask any questions.
He didn't even bother to try asking about how the girls might've been treated, or where they might've been taken. He just asked if they were there and left disgusted when he was offered to check out the slaves that were there after finding out that the girls weren't there. Not only did he not acquire the information he was looking for, he got nothing from that except showing off that he has a fat sack of cash in what is probably one of the shadier areas of town and maybe the ire of slave traders everywhere.

Also, I never said he should demand anything, I said he should object to the slaves being referred to as goods. The difference is substantial, and it does make a difference in the long run. The way you refer to people effects your perception of them, if you're constantly reducing someone to a mere object with the way you refer to them then you end up treating them as an object in actuality as well even if you know better, and on the flip of that, if you're constantly referring to to an inanimate object as a person when talking about it then it takes on that role in your mind and you end up starting to treat it like a person. If he objects to the slaves being referred to as goods and convinces the slave trader to refer to them as actual people then they'll end up treating the slaves better, keep doing that while trying to find those girls and the sentiment will spread which may lead to a natural dissolution of slavery without requiring formal abolishment.


Lastly, even if he can't help all the slaves, helping those he can is still admirable. If it is only acceptable to help others when you can't help everyone perfectly then I guess doctors should all be fired because their treatments can't save everyone and their treatments aren't perfect, same for firefighters, law enforcement, and all those other similar jobs that you rely on to live your sheltered life. No one can save everyone, but they do their best to save those they can, in whatever form they are able to. Even if it is only a few people, and they're only given the freedom to live lives like normal people while still being bound by whatever contract, it is still doing more to help than just walking out without doing anything, and those that he does help can in turn help others.
To give you a little more clarity here, if I'm walking down the street and see your house burning down with you screaming for help because you're trapped inside, would you rather me just walk away and ignore it or would you prefer me to bust down your door and invade your home to save you even though I cannot heal your burns nor rebuild your house nor replace any of your lost property? By your logic with slavery here, I should just leave you to burn without so much as calling emergency services.

 

[phorx]

Moreover, the MC has an objective: finding his friends' friends. Buying slaves at random to pretend you're making a dent in the institution of slavery could leave him lacking some funds when he'll truly need them.

It hasn’t shown itself too often yet, but this MC is extremely pragmatic. The reasoning you mentioned is exactly the way he thinks.

You’ll see it a lot more after the orc arc coming up next.

 

[Wyrm]

You're stuck on the idea that slavery in any form and at all levels is pure evil, and are refusing to use your brain at all in this conversation.

I am using my brain, not just emotions. Basically, I'll repeat that participating in the slave trade feeds it. It doesn't hinder or reduce it.

For one, your comparison with other situations like a house fire is ignoring the complete difference with the situation we're discussing.
(As a sidenote, yes, I'd prefer you walk away from a fire if you don't know what you're doing. Otherwise we'll just end up with two victims instead of one. There are many situations where not intervening directly is the right choice. Calling emergency is often a way better move. Also, this wouldn't be "invasion" if I called for help. You're making up a completely stupid hypothetical.)
Here, we're not talking about saving a person in danger from an isolated incident that is the result of either an accident or a crime. We're talking about an institution that is morally corrupt, but legal in that context. (Morality and laws are - sadly - not directly correlated, even in the real world.) "Saving" one individual, which already is not really saving them for reasons I discussed previously, will condemn more as the demand, as in "offer and demand" which is the context I'm using the word, increases the incentive for more offer. You accuse me of not using my brain, but you're the one ignoring the larger impact of your proposed actions in favor of an emotional and isolated act of self-righteousness. As long as the institution is legal, this is contributing to it, not ending it, no matter how many you "save".

Basically, there is a reason that people in the real world call to boycott unethical products rather than attempt to buy them all.

And we're not talking about walking into a bar and ordering a cocktail as a way to initiate conversation with the barman. You're mentioning how "just walking in and asking questions" doesn't help, but all he's doing is asking for slaves that meet a certain condition ("war slaves, elf and beast person"). Normal "customer" behavior so far. Why would he need to buy any slave to establish a better relation? More importantly, does he need to do this with every trader? He will run out of money very fast in this case. Which leads us back to self-satisfaction as the only motive to buy slaves. And the way you present it, he wouldn't even save the weaker slaves which are more at risk but the stronger ones who would prove useful to him... but would likely survive longer as a slave under a different owner anyway. So your proposal is pure participation in slavery, not "saving slaves".

Also, the MC didn't intend to walk to slave traders just for the fun of acting indignant. He has a purpose which is way more relatable than a grandiose "attempt to abolish slavery". He wants to save the friends of his friends. He doesn't like it, but he wants to help people he knows. It's personal. It's relatable. It's understandable. Not every MC needs to save the whole world at once. And not every MC is an OP juggernaut that will get away with upending society or run on unlimited funds to save anyone he fancies.

To conclude, I already had a message before on how slavery is always evil to some degree. A lesser degree when you treat your slaves well, but as long as you don't actually free them, slaves are just a step away from being treated inhumanely. In this case, the MC is going to keep traveling so he's going to fight monsters on a regular basis. Any slave he buys will be involved in fights to the death, will it or not. Talking to them nicely doesn't change the fact that he's making them fight... for his life.

I can argue a lot more about this, but I keep to my opinion that he acted the right way. So far at least.

 

[phorx]

People keep talking about this MC as if he thinks of himself as an MC… he just wants to help his friends, not once has he considered it to be his duty to improve the world.

Keep in mind why he split from the girls in the first place, he didn’t think it was safe for them to be with him because he doesn’t know what is observing him or how or why. He didn’t even feel safe enough to tell them that.

With that mindset he’s not going to consider any action that would make him stand out, let alone take on slavery.

 

[Mivy]

Wow he dodged the usual isekai protag to buy a slave

 

[SpecialProjectY]

Wow he dodged the usual isekai protag to buy a slave

Hahahaha, ha, yeah... that would be great.

 

[theincident]

attack on titan ahh city setup

 

[thycondrius]

Good thing the MC didn't buy slaves.

Japanese mangakas need to stop with the MC buying a waifu from slave traders.

Thanks for the chapter!

 

[rexmundi]

no slave then