Nobunaga no Chef - Ch. 119 - Mitsuhide's unease

[MangaDex]

 

[Mogima]

that monk guys from modern times reminds me of Micah the rat.

 

[deenzfan12]

I only know the vaguest details of how this era's conflicts roll out thanks to a passing interest in Sengoku Basara over 10 years ago. So I'm really interested in seeing how Mitsuhide actually ends up taking Nobunaga's life.

 

[TehSDragon]

I only know the vaguest details of how this era's conflicts roll out thanks to a passing interest in Sengoku Basara over 10 years ago. So I'm really interested in seeing how Mitsuhide actually ends up taking Nobunaga's life.

My complete balls to the wall guess?

Oda contracts some terminal illness, but dying of disease would be like going out with a whimper, which is bad optics for someone who basically would rather die a martyr in order to usher in a new age for Japan. Oda doesn't care if he's the one to bring the country to the next era, just that it must be done.

"I expect great things from you" might foreshadow the fact that, despite all the talented generals he has, only Mitsuhide has the will to do everything Oda says, including seppuku... and that might also include killing Oda, too, if Oda ordered him to do so.

However, it'll probably take some coaxing à-la-Ken with some convoluted food reason to convince him to make the whole thing real. Mitsuhide will inherit Oda's Will (insert One Piece joke/reference here), and will "betray" Oda, attacking him at Azuchi, and finally slay him. This grants Oda his final wish of going out with a bang, cementing his legacy as the "Demon King" that must be defeated by a united Japan, in order to bring peace to the land (with Mitsuhide as the titular "Hero").

Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, the whole Demon King vs. Hero angle might not even need a terminal illness, it actually feels right up Oda's alley lol. Still, I feel like it would have to be something as serious as that to convince Ken to let Oda die (or Ken just wants history to go as normal, so he does with it, idk)

 

[ImabotStw]

I'm also interested how will Takeda lose against Nobunaga. As Ken said in basic history we learn that Nobunaga usd guns against Takeda and that's why he won. But it looks like extreme oversimplification of how that battle went. It's a interesting take on time traveling interference. How their basic knowledge moght appear sometimes as extre advantage but in reality this have big limits and it does not encompasses complexity of society and chaos or war, and extermal and internal agency of the people living in this time period.

My guess will be that Takeda will not be able to use his modern arms after preparing a lot of them when prophecy will warm him against how Oda will defeat him, either by sabotage or bad luck, maybe a weather or other logistical issue will deny this advantage and Takeda will be left with option to use his traditional strategies that will be no match against Oda forces.

So no ammout of historical warnings and prophecies will be able to prevent it when you hear what will happen at destination but have no idea about the journey that is take you to that point.

BTW. I wonder if Yasuke will make apperance in this manga.

 

[dahhv2]

I'm also interested how will Takeda lose against Nobunaga. As Ken said in basic history we learn that Nobunaga usd guns against Takeda and that's why he won. But it looks like extreme oversimplification of how that battle went. It's a interesting take on time traveling interference. How their basic knowledge moght appear sometimes as extre advantage but in reality this have big limits and it does not encompasses complexity of society and chaos or war, and extermal and internal agency of the people living in this time period.

My guess will be that Takeda will not be able to use his modern arms after preparing a lot of them when prophecy will warm him against how Oda will defeat him, either by sabotage or bad luck, maybe a weather or other logistical issue will deny this advantage and Takeda will be left with option to use his traditional strategies that will be no match against Oda forces.

So no ammout of historical warnings and prophecies will be able to prevent it when you hear what will happen at destination but have no idea about the journey that is take you to that point.

BTW. I wonder if Yasuke will make apperance in this manga.

Not only that, there was that monk that keeps giving spoilers

 

[velatic]

I'm also interested how will Takeda lose against Nobunaga. As Ken said in basic history we learn that Nobunaga usd guns against Takeda and that's why he won. But it looks like extreme oversimplification of how that battle went. It's a interesting take on time traveling interference. How their basic knowledge moght appear sometimes as extre advantage but in reality this have big limits and it does not encompasses complexity of society and chaos or war, and extermal and internal agency of the people living in this time period.

My guess will be that Takeda will not be able to use his modern arms after preparing a lot of them when prophecy will warm him against how Oda will defeat him, either by sabotage or bad luck, maybe a weather or other logistical issue will deny this advantage and Takeda will be left with option to use his traditional strategies that will be no match against Oda forces.

So no ammout of historical warnings and prophecies will be able to prevent it when you hear what will happen at destination but have no idea about the journey that is take you to that point.

BTW. I wonder if Yasuke will make apperance in this manga.

some story or game depicts that oda genius tactic about his unlimited gun volley (one line fire, second line prepping, last line loading)is the key that decimated takeda famous cavalry

 

[AEnigmatrices]

Nagashino was won before the battle was even fought, even without the guns – it's the very fact that Katsuyori was the one attacking.

Attacking an enemy who not only outnumbered you, but also well dug-in, is nothing less than suicidal.

 

[Mr_Detective]

I remember reading about the battle which Katsuyori lost most of his competent generals. It was on wikipedia, and seemed to have been edited by a Japanese person with limited English fluency, so who knows how accurate it was. They said it wasn't the gun volley tactic, but some kind of shields that prevented Katsuyori from charging toward them. Takeda clan had issues with ammunition for their guns, too. Apparently they had to melt coins to make bullets. Wish I can find that page again. But again, I have no guarantee over its accuracy. XD

BTW. I wonder if Yasuke will make apperance in this manga.

He will. Wonder if any of the incel chuds will lose their mind over him...

 

[ImabotStw]

some story or game depicts that oda genius tactic about his unlimited gun volley (one line fire, second line prepping, last line loading)is the key that decimated takeda famous cavalry

Ah, that would make a lot of sense. Oda won not by simply having Guns in his army. He won because he was the first to train that army to efficiently and extensively use modern tactics of fireline and volley against an old strategy of overwhelming cavalry charges. This is a big breakthrough.

He will. Wonder if any of the incel chuds will lose their mind over him...

Hey! I'm one of those Incel Chuds! :V
TBH I like Yasuke. I loved the anime about him, his appearance in in Nioh video game, and in that manga sequel of Basilisk. He was treated there with respect and in such a way it made sense in the context of the story.
In AC: Shadows tho? No. Just, No.

They said it wasn't the gun volley tactic, but some kind of shields that prevented Katsuyori from charging toward them. Takeda clan had issues with ammunition for their guns, too. Apparently they had to melt coins to make bullets. Wish I can find that page again. But again, I have no guarantee over its accuracy. XD

Well in European warfare at that time, the Firing line was usually placed behind a line of Pikemen or defensive fortifications like shields, sharpened poles etc. that prevented cavalry or infantry from simply charging at gunmen but left them free to fire at the enemy.
And line about bullets .it would fit in my assumption that Takeda might also suffer from serious logistical issues. It may turn out to be Oda doing or Takeda will just have a lot of bad luck.
As the old saying goes. Wars are won on Logistics. Or one from Sun Tzu book. Army marches on its stomach.
Both quotes point out the importance of supply lines and providing clear transport and travel for troops and everything they need to win.

 

[Mr_Detective]

Blocked.

 

[deenzfan12]

My complete balls to the wall guess?

Oda contracts some terminal illness, but dying of disease would be like going out with a whimper, which is bad optics for someone who basically would rather die a martyr in order to usher in a new age for Japan. Oda doesn't care if he's the one to bring the country to the next era, just that it must be done.

"I expect great things from you" might foreshadow the fact that, despite all the talented generals he has, only Mitsuhide has the will to do everything Oda says, including seppuku... and that might also include killing Oda, too, if Oda ordered him to do so.

However, it'll probably take some coaxing à-la-Ken with some convoluted food reason to convince him to make the whole thing real. Mitsuhide will inherit Oda's Will (insert One Piece joke/reference here), and will "betray" Oda, attacking him at Azuchi, and finally slay him. This grants Oda his final wish of going out with a bang, cementing his legacy as the "Demon King" that must be defeated by a united Japan, in order to bring peace to the land (with Mitsuhide as the titular "Hero").

Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, the whole Demon King vs. Hero angle might not even need a terminal illness, it actually feels right up Oda's alley lol. Still, I feel like it would have to be something as serious as that to convince Ken to let Oda die (or Ken just wants history to go as normal, so he does with it, idk)

Pretty epic