Onii-chan and Onee-chan Translation?

[KanzakiYuu]

How would you translate onii-chan or onee-chan to English? Do you keep both as is or do you use big brother or big sister?

 

[GipoScribantino]

If part of family: brother; sister; bro; sis; maybe even use the actual name if it known.

If not part of the family: miss; mister.

 

[Sogopogo]

You keep it, Onii-chan and Onee-chan is a term of endearment and affection, Japanese honorifics are an integral part of manga, it doesn't matter where it used, even if it's used on stranger. if the dialogue has them keep them in romaji, there isn't need to fully translate a manga into proper english, that's just localization aka butchering at this point and it's the only reason i avoid buying official english licensed series.

Using pet names like big brother and big sisters, dear elder sister, sissy, teach, mr, miss is just plain ugly and throw off the immersion. same with straight up using just names (unless the dialogues mentioned no suffix). Japanese Honorifics conveys a lot more than you think it does depends on the scenes, it could be used as sign of affection, teasing, or sarcasm. Please keep them.

 

[GipoScribantino]

Honorifics conveys a lot more than you think it does depends on the scenes, it could be used as sign of affection, teasing, or sarcasm. Please keep them.

They really don't. Every language has the same subtleties and it's only a matter of being able to express them in written form and within the boundaries of the actual drawings.

 

[OisE]

that's just localization aka butchering at this point

Totally not. A good translation is when you read a story and you don't know and can't say if it was written in your language or not.

 

[Sogopogo]

Totally not. A good translation is when you read a story and you don't know and can't say if it was written in your language or not.

No it's not, readers are already aware Japanese manga is written in Japanese, so many dialogues are lost in translation in favor of localization, i'd rather having a translator note filling all empty spaces than a having feeling of missing out and being robbed of a faithful translation, and everyone could tell straight away it was rewritten when localizer uses stupid made up pet names anyway.

 

[nymphriel]

You keep them as is. Do not listen to people who tell you to west-wash it.
Readers aren't that dumb, after a couple times seeing these titles in context, they'll know what they are for all future series as well.
Here's your final push: nobody in english speaking countries actually come home and call their siblings "brother, sister." We just call them by their names, and that goes against the Japanese culture behind these works anyways.

Here's a good example: all Lords are -sama, yet not all -sama are Lords (in regards to landownership). You just gotta look at contexts and balance them.

 

[OisE]

and everyone could tell straight away it was rewritten when localizer uses stupid made up pet names anyway.

I agree with you on this I don't like this at all. But I was talking about good translation. For example if you look at Harry Potter in English, French and Spanish, you have huge differences. In French and English it's really well written and it looks original. However in Spanish it's horrible. They kept a lot of english's concept...

If you want to translate it's raining cats and dogs you won't translate it literally right ? For me onee-san and onii-san are the same.

i'd rather having a translator note filling all empty spaces than a having feeling of missing out and being robbed of a faithful translation

The only moment where I accept the notes is when they use a cultural aspect. In other case they need to translate correctly so that you don't lose information. That's the difference between good and bad translation.

Do not listen to people who tell you to west-wash it.

That really bad to say this because the very essence to translation is to bring an understandable translation. That's not called west-wash but adaptation...

 

[solstice258]

I feel like there's a big difference between "real" (official) translation and scanlation. Official translations are made for anybody who can read in the target language, but scanlations are for weebs specifically.
The point of reading scanlations (to me, at least) is enjoying Japan with all its untranslateable cultural differences and being an obsessed weird weaboo freak in peace. That's why I rarely read official translations (or Chinese/Korean/western comics at all.)

tl;dr keep onii-chan and onee-chan

 

[Sogopogo]

If you want to translate it's raining cats and dogs you won't translate it literally right ? For me onee-san and onii-san are the same.

Idioms and Honorifics are not the same, you can get away with idioms, plenty of idioms across all language can convey the same meaning. I'm not against using local idioms to match with the works they're translating if it can't be help with, as long as it stay faithful. That said, I prefer Japanese Idiom being a literal translation, with a side note of course.

But Honorifics such as Onee-san, Onii-san -kun-san -chan and the likes are exclusively Japanese, nobody in English speaking country IRL directly addressing their siblings with Big brother, Dear elder brother or Big bro, or calling their friends Mr/Miss. Sounds idiotic in English, but removing those suffixes would changes the meaning of said relationship hence it became butchered and IMO very distasteful. The only way is to keep them in Romaji.

The point of reading scanlations (to me, at least) is enjoying Japan with all its untranslateable cultural differences and being an obsessed weird weaboo freak in peace. That's why I rarely read official translations (or Chinese/Korean/western comics at all.)

That's the ideal, but i've seen some translators abandoned traditions of makes fan translation itself unique in the first place. I don't understand why would they do this, i would've just buy an English official Manga if so wanted to puke myself reading it.

 

[nymphriel]

That really bad to say this because the very essence to translation is to bring an understandable translation. That's not called west-wash but adaptation...

I will give you an example:

I dare you to translate "Sultan" into "Middle Eastern King" in whatever book that contains that word.

People read the book -> understand the context of it being middle eastern -> see a ruler/leader -> see him being referred to as Sultan -> comprehend what Sultan means without changing it.

Apply the same process to onii-san/onee-san/etc.

 

[OisE]

"Sultan" into "Middle Eastern King"

What not at all... Sultan is a title you can't change it.

Apply the same process to onii-san/onee-san/etc.

That's just honorific. When a customer enter somewhere the clercs call the customer, customer-sama. -sama the same as God-sama right ?

But in english it's just god, right ? But still you keep the formal way to speak about a god. And another formal way to talk to a customer. That's, for me, how you translate the particles without keeping them.

And to be honest, a lot of the time I'm cringed by how TL choose to keep the particles or honorific in english...

Yes you can say that you feel like it's a traitorous way to translate, but you know : "Traduttore, traditore"

 

[nymphriel]

What not at all... Sultan is a title you can't change it.

You can't change "Aniue/Aneue" either. Those are also almost on the same level as official titles. Yet most TLors decide to dumb it down to "honorable brother/sister" which nobody in western history actually says -> so in this case, adapting isn't even possible -> all the more reason to keep those ones.

That's just honorific. When a customer enter somewhere the clercs call the customer, customer-sama. -sama the same as God-sama right ?

But in english it's just god, right ? But still you keep the formal way to speak about a god. And another formal way to talk to a customer. That's, for me, how you translate the particles without keeping them.

I agree fully. This is where it's the job of the TLor to pick and choose the appropriate pieces to put in.

I'll refer back to my point a few posts ago, nobody in western countries goes home and call their siblings "brother/sister" the same way "onii-chan/onee-chan" is used either -> so you keep it when there is appropriate context (also this is where I'd cringe if they changed it to the sibling's first name, because that also isn't how it worked in the original language/cultrue -> it would be west-washing in this case)