Red Blue - Ch. 177 - If I die, I’m taking you with me.

[MangaDex]

 

[Paligema]

Finally its going to be a battle of grappling, aoba has yo hit em with a triangle choke.

Thanks for the translation!

 

[GhosterZero]

not to be downplaying my dawg Aoba but DAMN him having a physical advantage against someone is kinda funny.

 

[Kireato]

It's happening! now Aoba has to survive the ground assault until he can outread his opponent.

The thing is that his opponent can mix in punches with takedowns (though he might be too dumb to realise this and may have decided to fully commit to a ground assault only) and he's quicker so Aoba will always be at a disadvantage when going to the ground until he can really get into his head.

 

[Vikingbear]

A thousand thanks for the Translation and upload.

 

[TheGreatALBundy]

Aoba finally has more raw power than someone! Stamina I bet is still lacking cause he has that whole asthma thing going on with him. Thanks for the translation, do try to stay hydrated so you don't get sick!

 

[UnluckyGrape]

Title got me thinking of that tiktok

 

[likv0r]

Thanks for the translation!

Aoba is finally showing one of the most important skills in the fighting manga protagonist's arsenal: blocking punches with the head.

I don't remember Kureishi written as having pillow hands (remember his previous high-ranking opponent went down after one counter), so it seems Aoba also got a secret chin upgrade behind the scenes.

 

[ocsibrm]

Title got me thinking of that tiktok

I was think more of a "I'm dying? Nah, WE dying."

 

[0takuDragonSlayer]

not to be downplaying my dawg Aoba but DAMN him having a physical advantage against someone is kinda funny.

Honestly, the only critique of this is I have is we didn’t get to see him lift weights more regularly, but it makes sense considering who aoba trains with and what he trains

- His cross training partner is a genetic freak wrestler

- his main mentor is a Judo Master and a grown ass man

- his “best friend“ is like twice his size

- The guy with the family meat business is a brick shithouse

Plus grapplers like him who learn judo,wrestling,and jujitsu usually end up relatively beefy. On top of that his goal is to submit Kenshin. So eventually he was gonna have to put on some muscle or perish. It also helps that your body doesn’t technically stop growing until ya hit the end or middle of your twenties

 

[0takuDragonSlayer]

THANK YOU FOR THE TRANSLATION! This was awesome

 

[0takuDragonSlayer]

remember his previous high-ranking opponent went down after one counter

Actually he was stunned after walking into a shot but not dropped.

 

[TheGreatALBundy]

Plus grapplers like him who learn judo,wrestling,and jujitsu usually end up relatively beefy.

This, I cannot support this one line enough. Series that always go: "This frail boy is a judo master/jujitsu master" agitate me because of this. You need muscle in order to dominate your opponents on the ground not just flexibility writers! Bodily control only helps so much! lmao

 

[likv0r]

Honestly, the only critique of this is I have is we didn’t get to see him lift weights more regularly, but it makes sense considering who aoba trains with and what he trains

- His cross training partner is a genetic freak wrestler

- his main mentor is a Judo Master and a grown ass man

- his “best friend“ is like twice his size

- The guy with the family meat business is a brick shithouse

Plus grapplers like him who learn judo,wrestling,and jujitsu usually end up relatively beefy. On top of that his goal is to submit Kenshin. So eventually he was gonna have to put on some muscle or perish. It also helps that your body doesn’t technically stop growing until ya hit the end or middle of your twenties

True, but IMHO this rapid physical progress also paints him as a genetic freak. He was literally just a skinny guy watching Kenshin on TV with zero sports background ~3 years ago, and now he's out-tanking someone who's been training since childhood. He also still fights in the same weight class despite considerably beefing up, so the weight cut is probably not that easy anymore.

It's just that I preferred it when Aoba was winning using tricks and situational advantages rather than physical advantage. That is what made his fights interesting to me. Lately, the way he fights is shifting into the usual "take hits and push through coz I am the MC" trope, and I guess it's gonna be the strategy for the next opponents too.

 

[0takuDragonSlayer]

True, but IMHO this rapid physical progress also paints him as a genetic freak

Not really. Kenshin and Hachiya are genetic freaks. This guy is just really good at Japanese jujitsu and competent counter punching but isn’t packing high durability and power output like Aoba’s most notable opponents have. It’s easy to forget, but not every person in the series is going to be able to bully him physically.

now he's out-tanking someone who's been training since childhood

someone who trained from childhood to do jujitsu exactly like his grandpa. He only learned striking relatively recently. Which is why he missed the target when countering an unorthodox punch. He still learning.

He also still fights in the same weight class despite considerably beefing up, so the weight cut is probably not that easy anymore.

Tbf,of course he was going to beef up. That’s just how that stage of development works when supplemented by physical activity but it’s not gonna make his weight cut unbearable. Especially compared to people objectively hugefor the weight class.

It's just that I preferred it when Aoba was winning using tricks and situational advantages rather than physical advantage

I get that, but I really don’t feel like exaggerating his opponents Knockout power is a reasonable way to vent to that ya know? That just didn’t sit right with me.

Most importantly, this is a physical sport. Using your physical advantages is part of the entire point not something to be ashamed of.

Even people in the UFC we have seen dudes on undercards created brawling scenarios in order to get an upper hand on opponents with superior skill on the feet. Plus, if I’m being honest from a reading perspective, it could get very repetitive if the solution to every problem put in front of him is the same every time. I want to make it clear. This isn’t a personal attack, but rather me sharing my perspective.

 

[0takuDragonSlayer]

This, I cannot support this one line enough. Series that always go: "This frail boy is a judo master/jujitsu master" agitate me because of this. You need muscle in order to dominate your opponents on the ground not just flexibility writers! Bodily control only helps so much! lmao

Yeah, I’m not gonna I might sound like a meathead when I say this, but I’m right there with you. I’m VERY glad the author isn’t afraid to avoid this stereotype when it makes sense. Dat trope feels just a little bit pretentious and a bit detached from reality.

I say this as someone who regularly trains with Grapplers who regularly compete. The manga stereotype that most jujitsu practitioners are usually string beans just isn’t accurate most of the time. Just because they have an efficient application of strength, it doesn’t mean they aren’t improving their physical strength behind the scenes.

You can be a martial artist, and still head down to your nearest YMCA on Sunday to lift some weights to supplement your training😅

 

[likv0r]

Not really. Kenshin and Hachiya are genetic freaks. This guy is just really good at Japanese jujitsu and competent counter punching but isn’t packing high durability and power output like Aoba’s most notable opponents have. It’s easy to forget, but not every person in the series is going to be able to bully him physically.

someone who trained from childhood to do jujitsu exactly like his grandpa. He only learned striking relatively recently. Which is why he missed the target when countering an unorthodox punch. He still learning.

Look, even from a purely statistical standpoint, Aoba is gifted compared to the general population. If you take 100 random Japanese high-schoolers with zero sports/labor background and asthma and ask how many could ever make it to the top-10 of a national MMA promotion in 3 years, the answer likely would be one at best (which is a very generous estimate; the probability is more likely one in a million). By definition, the fact that Aoba made it already puts him in the top ~1% percentile, meaning he is, at a minimum, genetically gifted compared to genpop.

Now, whether Aoba is more gifted than a relevant comparison group, his opponents. Recently, I’ve been watching interviews with the late Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov, and he repeatedly emphasized the importance of starting physical training very young (around 6-8) to build coordination and endurance (interestingly, he was also strongly against hard sparring before ~16). That makes a lot of sense to me from a physiological standpoint, because that's the time when the brain is extremely plastic for motor learning, which would be crucial for grappling.

This is especially relevant for Aoba, since he was portrayed as a technical grappler rather than a brawler who relies on punching power before. He started at 16 with no sports background, no physical job (+ asthma), so he missed the critical brain-muscle connection developmental years that Kenshin, Hachiya, and Kuresihi utilized. The fact that Aoba can now go toe-to-toe with Kuresihi (like counter counters and be close in grappling) means his brain plasticity and motor learning are crazy.
This is the physical advantage that actually makes Aoba special: his nervous system. Combine it with a solid chin (I still think Kureishi is above average in terms of punching power; the author did Gamion dirty) and the ability to beef up fast, and we enter the genetic freak territory.

Plus, if I’m being honest from a reading perspective, it could get very repetitive if the solution to every problem put in front of him is the same every time.

That’s exactly why I don’t like the author setting Aoba’s base level so low. It would’ve been an easy fix, just make him mediocre at some other sport instead of starting from literal zero.
Right now, it seems future Aoba fights with the next tier of opponents will follow the same scenario as this fight, coz he does not pose that level of takedown threat to make strikers uncomfortable enough (unless he goes to Dagestan/Chechnya/North Ossetia in a year).

 

[0takuDragonSlayer]

Look, even from a purely statistical standpoint, Aoba is gifted compared to the general population. If you take 100 random Japanese high-schoolers with zero sports/labor background and asthma and ask how many could ever make it to the top-10 of a national MMA promotion in 3 years, the answer likely would be one at best (which is a very generous estimate; the probability is more likely one in a million). By definition, the fact that Aoba made it already puts him in the top ~1% percentile, meaning he is, at a minimum, genetically gifted compared to genpop.

Now, whether Aoba is more gifted than a relevant comparison group, his opponents. Recently, I’ve been watching interviews with the late Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov, and he repeatedly emphasized the importance of starting physical training very young (around 6-8) to build coordination and endurance (interestingly, he was also strongly against hard sparring before ~16). That makes a lot of sense to me from a physiological standpoint, because that's the time when the brain is extremely plastic for motor learning, which would be crucial for grappling.

This is especially relevant for Aoba, since he was portrayed as a technical grappler rather than a brawler who relies on punching power before. He started at 16 with no sports background, no physical job (+ asthma), so he missed the critical brain-muscle connection developmental years that Kenshin, Hachiya, and Kuresihi utilized. The fact that Aoba can now go toe-to-toe with Kuresihi (like counter counters and be close in grappling) means his brain plasticity and motor learning are crazy.
This is the physical advantage that actually makes Aoba special: his nervous system. Combine it with a solid chin (I still think Kureishi is above average in terms of punching power; the author did Gamion dirty) and the ability to beef up fast, and we enter the genetic freak territory.


That’s exactly why I don’t like the author setting Aoba’s base level so low. It would’ve been an easy fix, just make him mediocre at some other sport instead of starting from literal zero.
Right now, it seems future Aoba fights with the next tier of opponents will follow the same scenario as this fight, coz he does not pose that level of takedown threat to make strikers uncomfortable enough (unless he goes to Dagestan/Chechnya/North Ossetia in a year).

He’s gifted especially when it comes to understanding the complexities of ground fighting, but he’s not a genetic freak. There’s so many fights he would’ve lost without a great mentor and a gym willing to support his crazy dream. This also goes for the help he’s gotten from old Adversaries

Also your experiment entirely depends on who they fight, when they fought them, who trains them,back luck with injuries, style match ups,and if they get stonewalled by the business. Like if Aoba fought Yamamoto in his prime he gets sent to the hospital. If his current opponent started MMA much sooner instead of only trying to be like his grandfather for the majority of his life this fight would’ve already been over

Even then, there have been countless people who have been bullied or start off sickly then eventually became competent athletes. Charles Oliveira basically gave childhood illness the middle finger and then went on to make it everybody else’s problem. There’s a crazy dude who became a high-level wrestler, despite being born with one arm. Aoba’s starting point is unfair but it’s not a death sentence.

One of the core aspects of sports is how badly do you want it and the story has repeatedly establish that he is mentally unstable enough to pursue unrealistic goals

Also, keep in mind Aoba only beating local Japanese competition. He’s not beating up ex-UFC champs, TUF winners, Pride veterans, the demons in Thailand or God forbid trying to put hands on people from brazil or Mexico. You are not in the top 1% of combat sports when you not only can’t live off of primarily fighting,still haven’t even won a local belt yet and haven’t even beaten anyone outside your home country.

His run is objectively impressive and he’s definitely cerebrally gifted but putting him in the genetic freak category for being able to win a slugfest with a Jujutsu practitioner with no KOs, bulking up in SEVERAL years so he doesn’t get bullied as easily again by the real freaks, and a survive a beating from a old man in his 40s just isn’t accurate. Especially considering his first pro loss, one of his major victory being by disqualification and his place next to real genetic freaks like Kenshin, Nueji, and Hachiya who’s stats are way more ridiculous when you remember they’re around the same age.

His journey has always been about taking advantage of being underestimated, thinking through problems, taking advantage of the imperfections of his opponents, luck and being crazy enough to make do with the few advantages he has despite his many disadvantages. You can be an imperfect fighter and still get respectable results. That’s what makes fighting so entertaining in the first place. You don’t HAVE to be Kenshin to win and having a Protagonist that actually hast to push through adversity and Real resistance from his opponents isn’t something that’s bad for a narrative. It’s a requirement to keep things interesting

 

[LostBoyHere]

Holy hell. I never expected Aoba to be physically superior to an opponent before

 

[thelastbutterlord]

Someone please tell me if there's any news on chapter 178, I've been having withdrawal symptoms