Taihai no Hanauri - Ch. 105 - The Citizen's Assertion
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Thank you for the chapters
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Ended at a cliffhanger like this? I'm just even more excited to see how this all ends. Thanks so much for the update!
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@SirAutimo if you are going to infer things, then it could have ended in this very chapter, and you can imagine the entire thing.
We don't know why the war started, who is the enemy, their interest, why there are 2 kinds of sentient beings, how that society is structured, nothing.
We just have a girl that works with flowers, and her giant cyber enhanced brother that is dying in a war.
In other words, we have no context for this story.
We don't know why the war started, who is the enemy, their interest, why there are 2 kinds of sentient beings, how that society is structured, nothing.
We just have a girl that works with flowers, and her giant cyber enhanced brother that is dying in a war.
In other words, we have no context for this story.
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@doomroar
>we don't know why the war started
they told us it was a resource war several chapters ago
>who is the enemy
implied to be other cities or civilizations fighting for said resources
>their interest
to acquire resources
>why there are two kinds of sentient beings
This hasn't been explained, but I assume every non-human is either a mutation bought about by whatever war the humans fought or something created during the war(maybe they lost to many people and had to make more?). The series strongly implies it's post-apocalyptic, with the resource war amongst the humans apparently leading to their decline and subsequent hatred by non-humans.
>how the society is structured
I inferred that everybody lived in a city-state, nobody ever refers to a country, only "this town" and such. either the city has multiple guardians or there’s some coalition of city-states who joined up to more easily secure resources. we also know that society in general does not like humans, there's human butcher shops which are allowed to operate either out of governmental indifference, or because there is no true government to enforce those kinds of things.
>In other words, we have no context for this story.
We have plenty of context fam. We know most, if not all the shit, that has a direct impact on events within the stories. Many writers/worldbuilders are against having everything explained. This is because many find it more interesting to leave the audience somethings to infer, or having everything explained is against whatever writing philosophy they have(many writers, for example, are anti-exposition, even if it may help people to understand the narrative, because it's "unrealistic" unless you specifically make characters who need exposition lobed at them. )
>we don't know why the war started
they told us it was a resource war several chapters ago
>who is the enemy
implied to be other cities or civilizations fighting for said resources
>their interest
to acquire resources
>why there are two kinds of sentient beings
This hasn't been explained, but I assume every non-human is either a mutation bought about by whatever war the humans fought or something created during the war(maybe they lost to many people and had to make more?). The series strongly implies it's post-apocalyptic, with the resource war amongst the humans apparently leading to their decline and subsequent hatred by non-humans.
>how the society is structured
I inferred that everybody lived in a city-state, nobody ever refers to a country, only "this town" and such. either the city has multiple guardians or there’s some coalition of city-states who joined up to more easily secure resources. we also know that society in general does not like humans, there's human butcher shops which are allowed to operate either out of governmental indifference, or because there is no true government to enforce those kinds of things.
>In other words, we have no context for this story.
We have plenty of context fam. We know most, if not all the shit, that has a direct impact on events within the stories. Many writers/worldbuilders are against having everything explained. This is because many find it more interesting to leave the audience somethings to infer, or having everything explained is against whatever writing philosophy they have(many writers, for example, are anti-exposition, even if it may help people to understand the narrative, because it's "unrealistic" unless you specifically make characters who need exposition lobed at them. )
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@SirAutimo
What are the exact resources they fight over?
What are the other civilizations composed of?
The rest is all just your imagination and doesn't amount to anything.
The fact at the end of the day is that the setting is completely unnecessary for this story and a complete waste of time, is noise, and that's not a literary choice is just bad writing and laziness.
Leaving things up to the reader to fill in the blanks is just a lazy excuse. For a world to be build without a world is not world building.
What are the exact resources they fight over?
What are the other civilizations composed of?
The rest is all just your imagination and doesn't amount to anything.
The fact at the end of the day is that the setting is completely unnecessary for this story and a complete waste of time, is noise, and that's not a literary choice is just bad writing and laziness.
Leaving things up to the reader to fill in the blanks is just a lazy excuse. For a world to be build without a world is not world building.
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@doomroar
>What are the exact resources they fight over?
read:https://mangadex.org/chapter/820533/1
They are fighting over land, you know that there's many different resources that are important right? since it's post-apocalyptic than resources in general can be scarce.
>What are the other civilizations composed of?
agiain read:https://mangadex.org/chapter/820533/1
they are stated to be other towns, so common sense should tell you they are very similar in compostion to the town we see,no?
>The fact at the end of the day is that the setting is completely unnecessary for this story and a complete waste of time, is noise, and that's not a literary choice is just bad writing and laziness.
Fuck off, not every series has to spoonfed the entirety of it's setting to you. some of us are quite fine with having to infer some things.
>What are the exact resources they fight over?
read:https://mangadex.org/chapter/820533/1
They are fighting over land, you know that there's many different resources that are important right? since it's post-apocalyptic than resources in general can be scarce.
>What are the other civilizations composed of?
agiain read:https://mangadex.org/chapter/820533/1
they are stated to be other towns, so common sense should tell you they are very similar in compostion to the town we see,no?
>The fact at the end of the day is that the setting is completely unnecessary for this story and a complete waste of time, is noise, and that's not a literary choice is just bad writing and laziness.
Fuck off, not every series has to spoonfed the entirety of it's setting to you. some of us are quite fine with having to infer some things.
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@SirAutimo
That just meant that the guardian liberated a town, not that the main conflict was over territory.
The conflict can be over food, energy, ideologies, race, minerals, forced labor, etc. We literally don't know, you are just assuming without a basis that because they reclaimed a town the conflict was over land. If the conflict was over land there was no reason for the enemy to keep the original habitats of that town in there.
Wrong, first of all there are at least 4 different kind of humanoids in this story, humans, cyborgs, giant guardians, and the furies but none of that tell us what the enemy is.
And the town we see and the town that the papers mentioned were part of the same nation because is reclaimed territory, so of fucking course it will have the same composition, but that was not my question, i asked, what the OTHER civilizations are composed of? and you can't answer that question because we don't know.
At best you can shoot a blank at the air and assume that their enemy is human because the locals hate the human girl.
Some of you are quite fine by pulling bullshit out of your mouth and passing it as a valid explanation, but i am not fine with that.
That just meant that the guardian liberated a town, not that the main conflict was over territory.
The conflict can be over food, energy, ideologies, race, minerals, forced labor, etc. We literally don't know, you are just assuming without a basis that because they reclaimed a town the conflict was over land. If the conflict was over land there was no reason for the enemy to keep the original habitats of that town in there.
Wrong, first of all there are at least 4 different kind of humanoids in this story, humans, cyborgs, giant guardians, and the furies but none of that tell us what the enemy is.
And the town we see and the town that the papers mentioned were part of the same nation because is reclaimed territory, so of fucking course it will have the same composition, but that was not my question, i asked, what the OTHER civilizations are composed of? and you can't answer that question because we don't know.
At best you can shoot a blank at the air and assume that their enemy is human because the locals hate the human girl.
Some of you are quite fine by pulling bullshit out of your mouth and passing it as a valid explanation, but i am not fine with that.
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@doomroar
>That just meant that the guardian liberated a town, not that the main conflict was over territory.the conflict can be over food, energy, ideologies, race, minerals, forced labor, etc.
You may be right about the land part, I might have misread it (I interrupted restore to mean something like reclaim, although the exact meaning is unclear to me. Perhaps it is a translation error, or something lost in translation?) The rest of this statement doesn't really rebuke my other point. You asked why they were warring I told you it was because of resources as stated here: https://mangadex.org/chapter/854781/1
You then replied with "What are the exact resources they fight over?" to which I replied, "there fighting over land and resources in general can be scarce," I admitted my wrong with the land part, but in what way am I wrong about the rest? The coming of generalized resource wars is well trodden ground in many sci-fi stories, this is because the multiply resources are on their way to becoming scarce (oil, petroleum, coal, essentially every nonrenewable resource.) Shit, there are even reasons to fear things like water will become scarce: http://archive.is/R7Qlq
Is it beyond your imagination to imagine a superfucked world where most, if not every resource is scarce?
>If the conflict was over land there was no reason for the enemy to keep the original habitats of that town in there.
Bro, do you think that they would exterminate or expel the population they conquer? Why? In real life, they usually just take over the administration/governmet and oppress the local populace (see most colonized countries or countries that lost a major war and had to give up land)
>And the town we see and the town that the papers mentioned were part of the same nation because is reclaimed territory, so of fucking course it will have the same composition, but that was not my question, i asked, what the OTHER civilizations are composed of? and you can't answer that question because we don't know.
bro, I get the feeling we are not understanding each other. Are you complaining we don't fully know the state of the world in this setting and what the other civilizations are made of , assuming there are real civilizations in this setting that hasn’t devolved into town warfare?, Or are you complaining that we don't know the composition of whatever town(s) the human girl’s town is warring with?
If the latter, and you are complaining about how we know little about the enemy town. I do not understand your complaints; There's this thing called "reading between the lines" and it's something that near every story has (and those that don't are often denigrated as brainless) a character states here: https://mangadex.org/chapter/820533/1
"ahh I heard that the guardian from the enemy town has started to advance to this town"
Why would you read this and think, "what the hell kind of enemy are they actually fighting? it could be fucking anything. “That they just refer to it as a an “Enemy town" and not say "that evil robotic entity that is creating cyborg slaves who follow its every whim,’ gives you plenty of information. It seems pretty clear cut to me through Occam’s Razor, and not "bullshit pulled out of my ass" that they are fighting another town with at least one other guardian(I do not see what it would change giving the exact number of guardians. as it is useless fluff that one could easily gleam from when the series decides to presumably show said confrontation in its remaining chapters).
This sounds entirely reasonable to me and I imagine most people would also find it reasonable if they had the autism to read our slap fight.
But maybe I’m wrong and you are upset that the manga has not told us about the composition of other civilizations. I don't see why this a big enough deal to make a whole shitting fiasco over, I've never read a story set in a fictional universe that develops everything in a setting equally. Even shit like Star Wars, which many would argue is one of the most overdeveloped settings, has parts that are undeveloped because they just aren’t relevant to most stories set in said setting. This complaint to me is like bitching about how we only know what’s going down in the Imperium of man in Warhammer 40k, or why fallout only takes place in the U.S.A. People may be curious of these things, but I’ve never seen anybody but you who responds to these things with ‘what shitty writing and a waste of a setting” . If the question about the other civilizations remains unanswered, than you still have a slice of life story about a girl with a giant cybernetic one-chan who is treated like a god, who faces discrimination based on shit other humans have did that had long lasting consequences for the world, in a world were humans may well be on their way out.
>That just meant that the guardian liberated a town, not that the main conflict was over territory.the conflict can be over food, energy, ideologies, race, minerals, forced labor, etc.
You may be right about the land part, I might have misread it (I interrupted restore to mean something like reclaim, although the exact meaning is unclear to me. Perhaps it is a translation error, or something lost in translation?) The rest of this statement doesn't really rebuke my other point. You asked why they were warring I told you it was because of resources as stated here: https://mangadex.org/chapter/854781/1
You then replied with "What are the exact resources they fight over?" to which I replied, "there fighting over land and resources in general can be scarce," I admitted my wrong with the land part, but in what way am I wrong about the rest? The coming of generalized resource wars is well trodden ground in many sci-fi stories, this is because the multiply resources are on their way to becoming scarce (oil, petroleum, coal, essentially every nonrenewable resource.) Shit, there are even reasons to fear things like water will become scarce: http://archive.is/R7Qlq
Is it beyond your imagination to imagine a superfucked world where most, if not every resource is scarce?
>If the conflict was over land there was no reason for the enemy to keep the original habitats of that town in there.
Bro, do you think that they would exterminate or expel the population they conquer? Why? In real life, they usually just take over the administration/governmet and oppress the local populace (see most colonized countries or countries that lost a major war and had to give up land)
>And the town we see and the town that the papers mentioned were part of the same nation because is reclaimed territory, so of fucking course it will have the same composition, but that was not my question, i asked, what the OTHER civilizations are composed of? and you can't answer that question because we don't know.
bro, I get the feeling we are not understanding each other. Are you complaining we don't fully know the state of the world in this setting and what the other civilizations are made of , assuming there are real civilizations in this setting that hasn’t devolved into town warfare?, Or are you complaining that we don't know the composition of whatever town(s) the human girl’s town is warring with?
If the latter, and you are complaining about how we know little about the enemy town. I do not understand your complaints; There's this thing called "reading between the lines" and it's something that near every story has (and those that don't are often denigrated as brainless) a character states here: https://mangadex.org/chapter/820533/1
"ahh I heard that the guardian from the enemy town has started to advance to this town"
Why would you read this and think, "what the hell kind of enemy are they actually fighting? it could be fucking anything. “That they just refer to it as a an “Enemy town" and not say "that evil robotic entity that is creating cyborg slaves who follow its every whim,’ gives you plenty of information. It seems pretty clear cut to me through Occam’s Razor, and not "bullshit pulled out of my ass" that they are fighting another town with at least one other guardian(I do not see what it would change giving the exact number of guardians. as it is useless fluff that one could easily gleam from when the series decides to presumably show said confrontation in its remaining chapters).
This sounds entirely reasonable to me and I imagine most people would also find it reasonable if they had the autism to read our slap fight.
But maybe I’m wrong and you are upset that the manga has not told us about the composition of other civilizations. I don't see why this a big enough deal to make a whole shitting fiasco over, I've never read a story set in a fictional universe that develops everything in a setting equally. Even shit like Star Wars, which many would argue is one of the most overdeveloped settings, has parts that are undeveloped because they just aren’t relevant to most stories set in said setting. This complaint to me is like bitching about how we only know what’s going down in the Imperium of man in Warhammer 40k, or why fallout only takes place in the U.S.A. People may be curious of these things, but I’ve never seen anybody but you who responds to these things with ‘what shitty writing and a waste of a setting” . If the question about the other civilizations remains unanswered, than you still have a slice of life story about a girl with a giant cybernetic one-chan who is treated like a god, who faces discrimination based on shit other humans have did that had long lasting consequences for the world, in a world were humans may well be on their way out.
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@SirAutimo
I will recognize that you went and found a page that did in fact tells us about the nature of the conflict, it is over some resource and not land, but it doesn't tells us which resources.
Something of supreme importance because the nature of the resource completely changes the context of the conflict is not the same at all a battle fought over water and food than one fought over oil. Specially when we don't know what energy they use, is it coal, oil, enriched minerals? Is the resources they need water, or fertile land?
And this ties in with the previous point, if they were to be fighting over fertile land, as an example on how context is essential, of course they would kill the original inhabitants, because it means that the resources to feed people amid a famine are scarce enough as it is, the same for things like water, and even energy depending of what they are using the energy for, if they need coal for heating, then they would also limit the population using the coal. In a war for resources regulating the use of said scarce resources is essential. But go on ahead, and wrongly assume that it is not important.
The moment a group raises to the power of controlling multiple locations at the same time it stopped being town warfare, the towns are just how they use to account for how the war landscape is changing.
Talking about reading between the lines the very same page that you link reveals the existence of both towns and cities, the enemy town is not a single entity, the main designation for their opponent on that page was The enemy City, and when they talked about the enemy town they were referring to the guardian stationed at one of the towns controlled by their enemy, towns which ownership has been changing depending of which faction controls what zone. So yeah it is not a couple of tribal towns battling each other but proper civilizations.
Revealing that their enemy also uses guardians by no means reveals that their enemy has the same composition of inhabitants as the one town we have seen, what dumbass logic did you use to think that just because 2 groups use the same weapons they are meant to be the same, especially when the guardians that we have seen already look drastically different from each other.
Well time to start living out of your bubble then, literally just had to google "why we only know what's going down in the imperium of man" and on the first page of results i got a link to a 9 days old post of people complaining about how everyone else is being neglected on 40K
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/fvch01/shoehorning_humanity_into_everything_40k/
And i quote:
Not only is a fresh post, is a post that mentions other people sharing the same complain, and that advice against a common malpractice of doing world-building from the external POV of the very thing that is in the need of more narrative exposition.
Just because you yourself are a simpleton that can be content with minimal exposition, doesn't means the rest of the world is happy with the same level of mediocrity in their storytelling, at least try to speak for yourself and don't drag everyone else down to your low level of taste.
You are blaming the translators now? hahahahaha, oh man that's so low, sure it is their fault, no way YOU fucked up and are now overreaching. No it is the translators who are wrong! but not you. Sure.
I will recognize that you went and found a page that did in fact tells us about the nature of the conflict, it is over some resource and not land, but it doesn't tells us which resources.
Something of supreme importance because the nature of the resource completely changes the context of the conflict is not the same at all a battle fought over water and food than one fought over oil. Specially when we don't know what energy they use, is it coal, oil, enriched minerals? Is the resources they need water, or fertile land?
Citation fucking needed, that never happens in real life, in real life the people being colonized gets enslaved and killed in masses as they get absorbed into the new culture of the ones colonizing them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization
And this ties in with the previous point, if they were to be fighting over fertile land, as an example on how context is essential, of course they would kill the original inhabitants, because it means that the resources to feed people amid a famine are scarce enough as it is, the same for things like water, and even energy depending of what they are using the energy for, if they need coal for heating, then they would also limit the population using the coal. In a war for resources regulating the use of said scarce resources is essential. But go on ahead, and wrongly assume that it is not important.
The moment a group raises to the power of controlling multiple locations at the same time it stopped being town warfare, the towns are just how they use to account for how the war landscape is changing.
Talking about reading between the lines the very same page that you link reveals the existence of both towns and cities, the enemy town is not a single entity, the main designation for their opponent on that page was The enemy City, and when they talked about the enemy town they were referring to the guardian stationed at one of the towns controlled by their enemy, towns which ownership has been changing depending of which faction controls what zone. So yeah it is not a couple of tribal towns battling each other but proper civilizations.
Revealing that their enemy also uses guardians by no means reveals that their enemy has the same composition of inhabitants as the one town we have seen, what dumbass logic did you use to think that just because 2 groups use the same weapons they are meant to be the same, especially when the guardians that we have seen already look drastically different from each other.
Well time to start living out of your bubble then, literally just had to google "why we only know what's going down in the imperium of man" and on the first page of results i got a link to a 9 days old post of people complaining about how everyone else is being neglected on 40K
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/fvch01/shoehorning_humanity_into_everything_40k/
And i quote:
Not only is a fresh post, is a post that mentions other people sharing the same complain, and that advice against a common malpractice of doing world-building from the external POV of the very thing that is in the need of more narrative exposition.
Just because you yourself are a simpleton that can be content with minimal exposition, doesn't means the rest of the world is happy with the same level of mediocrity in their storytelling, at least try to speak for yourself and don't drag everyone else down to your low level of taste.
