Umineko no Naku Koro ni Shi - Forgery of the Purple Logic
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Okay well, I don't know if anyone else will ever read these but now that we're through I will put my thoughts so far.
First, thoughts on the culprit!
First, thoughts on the culprit!
Nanjo gave the most important purple truth of "Even if it is not me doing the check, no one will mistake the corpses.", so it's so hard to confirm whether or not if anyone is dead. People talk about corpses all of the time, but they could potentially be mis-identifying the bodies.
However Nanjo does also say that he kills only one person (presumably his accomplice), and that the accomplice is responsible for all of the other killings. It's not said in purple, so taken by that it means that the accomplice killed 12 people, before being killed by Nanjo. Nanjo also doesn't kill Eva until after that declaration, so from that we deduce that the accomplice is not Eva or Rosa. It ALSO means that the accomplice has to have been killed between Battler's death and Nanjo's confession.
Battler helpfully says "Dad will not kill anyone." and "The person who killed the six in the study and two in the guest room is the same." which means the first eight deaths (Kinzo, Krauss, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda, Kanon, Hideyoshi, George) are all excluded because the accomplice has to have killed all of them since Nanjo has only killed one. Rudolf is also exonerated because there are deaths that occur after that point, and Nanjo cannot be responsible. That leaves the suspect pool at: Kyrie, Natsuhi, Jessica.
So one of those three needs to have a faked death! Kyrie's death is the most suspicious since Nanjo inspects her body and is the one to declare her dead. Natushi is declared as "killed" by Battler and "dead" by Eva, so she's eliminated from the suspect pool. Jessica is trickier, but Battlers says that "Me, George and Jessica were in the cousin room of the guest house." and "it is impossible to go to the main house without being found out." so I don't see how Jessica could have done it meaning we just have to explain Kyrie
All of the deaths apart from Natsuhi/Jessica are fairly easy to explain. That pair however runs into some unfortunate truths about how she didn't leave until morning. My explanation for this is that Nanjo told the pair of them he would fake their deaths to throw the culprit off, and then directs them to Kyrie to finish the job.
I was satisfied with this right up until the point where I remembered about the chain being cut in George/Hideyoshi's room, and I don't have a thought for how to get around that.
However Nanjo does also say that he kills only one person (presumably his accomplice), and that the accomplice is responsible for all of the other killings. It's not said in purple, so taken by that it means that the accomplice killed 12 people, before being killed by Nanjo. Nanjo also doesn't kill Eva until after that declaration, so from that we deduce that the accomplice is not Eva or Rosa. It ALSO means that the accomplice has to have been killed between Battler's death and Nanjo's confession.
Battler helpfully says "Dad will not kill anyone." and "The person who killed the six in the study and two in the guest room is the same." which means the first eight deaths (Kinzo, Krauss, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda, Kanon, Hideyoshi, George) are all excluded because the accomplice has to have killed all of them since Nanjo has only killed one. Rudolf is also exonerated because there are deaths that occur after that point, and Nanjo cannot be responsible. That leaves the suspect pool at: Kyrie, Natsuhi, Jessica.
So one of those three needs to have a faked death! Kyrie's death is the most suspicious since Nanjo inspects her body and is the one to declare her dead. Natushi is declared as "killed" by Battler and "dead" by Eva, so she's eliminated from the suspect pool. Jessica is trickier, but Battlers says that "Me, George and Jessica were in the cousin room of the guest house." and "it is impossible to go to the main house without being found out." so I don't see how Jessica could have done it meaning we just have to explain Kyrie
All of the deaths apart from Natsuhi/Jessica are fairly easy to explain. That pair however runs into some unfortunate truths about how she didn't leave until morning. My explanation for this is that Nanjo told the pair of them he would fake their deaths to throw the culprit off, and then directs them to Kyrie to finish the job.
I was satisfied with this right up until the point where I remembered about the chain being cut in George/Hideyoshi's room, and I don't have a thought for how to get around that.
No, I miss-attributed a different line for like 24 hours of thinking about it coming up with crazy shit but once you realize who is actually taking it's not that hard.
The line that I'm talking about
I can post the correct solution but people should be able to reach it themselves with that.
The line that I'm talking about
"I have sealed all the windows and the door of the warehouse. It is impossible to enter or exit the warehouse as long as the seal is intact."
I can post the correct solution but people should be able to reach it themselves with that.
Massive spoilers don't click unless you have the solution. Seriously.
The first 8:
The culprit for the first 8 is the same
The culprit for the first 8 must either be Natsuhi/Jessica or get help from them
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Jessica (Battler gives her an alibi)
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Maria or Rosa (Maria alibis are guaranteed by Battler/Erika)
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Kyrie or Rudolf (Rudolf alibi from Battler + Rudolf giving Kyrie and alibi)
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Eva (Nanjo has killed his accomplices by ch10)
Therefore Natsuhi is the culprit for the first 8
Natsuhi/Rudolf/Battler/Kyrie:
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Nanjo (he only kills one person)
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Maria/Rosa (alibi given by Maria)
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Eva (she has no master key)
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Battler/Rudolf/Kyrie (alibi given by Rudolf/Battler)
Therefore the culprit for Natsuhi is Jessica
Jessica pretends to be dead (the only corpse that we don't have solid confirmation for)
When everyone is leaving the storehouse Battler says that he locked the door, but Nanjo is the one who says that he sealed the storehouse, this is a lie.
Nanjo comes back and unlocks the door and lets Jessica out during the time we don't see.
Jessica goes and kills Rudolf/Kyrie (no other character can do this because of alibis)
Jessica goes and kills Battler (no other character can do this because of alibis)
Jessica goes back to the storehouse, Nanjo comes and kills her (he could also do this later when they enter the storehouse since Erika examines Natsuhi and then Jessica and Nanjo is seen over Jessica's body, but it makes more sense at this point) and puts her inside and then seals the door with either the original seal he got from the storehouse or from the seals he would have had when Battler wanted them to seal the guesthouse (this is interrupted by the gunshot, they don't complete their sealing of the guesthouse - this doesn't matter for Eva's alibis though because they still seal her room according to Erika's purple)
Therefore our culprits are Natsuhi+Jessica+Nanjo
The culprit for the first 8 is the same
The culprit for the first 8 must either be Natsuhi/Jessica or get help from them
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Jessica (Battler gives her an alibi)
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Maria or Rosa (Maria alibis are guaranteed by Battler/Erika)
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Kyrie or Rudolf (Rudolf alibi from Battler + Rudolf giving Kyrie and alibi)
The culprit for the first 8 cannot be Eva (Nanjo has killed his accomplices by ch10)
Therefore Natsuhi is the culprit for the first 8
Natsuhi/Rudolf/Battler/Kyrie:
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Nanjo (he only kills one person)
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Maria/Rosa (alibi given by Maria)
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Eva (she has no master key)
The culprit for Natsuhi cannot be Battler/Rudolf/Kyrie (alibi given by Rudolf/Battler)
Therefore the culprit for Natsuhi is Jessica
Jessica pretends to be dead (the only corpse that we don't have solid confirmation for)
When everyone is leaving the storehouse Battler says that he locked the door, but Nanjo is the one who says that he sealed the storehouse, this is a lie.
Nanjo comes back and unlocks the door and lets Jessica out during the time we don't see.
Jessica goes and kills Rudolf/Kyrie (no other character can do this because of alibis)
Jessica goes and kills Battler (no other character can do this because of alibis)
Jessica goes back to the storehouse, Nanjo comes and kills her (he could also do this later when they enter the storehouse since Erika examines Natsuhi and then Jessica and Nanjo is seen over Jessica's body, but it makes more sense at this point) and puts her inside and then seals the door with either the original seal he got from the storehouse or from the seals he would have had when Battler wanted them to seal the guesthouse (this is interrupted by the gunshot, they don't complete their sealing of the guesthouse - this doesn't matter for Eva's alibis though because they still seal her room according to Erika's purple)
Therefore our culprits are Natsuhi+Jessica+Nanjo
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2020
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- 6
Over here https://mangadex.org/chapter/866376/comments
I asked:
- "So there really is no certain solution [...] on the internet?
Not even in Japanese?".
and you (Near) replied:
- "sadly, no. but some people i know have solved it and the solution seems really consistent".
The people that you know. are their conclusions the same as the one namdoog mentioned in this thread?
I asked:
- "So there really is no certain solution [...] on the internet?
Not even in Japanese?".
and you (Near) replied:
- "sadly, no. but some people i know have solved it and the solution seems really consistent".
The people that you know. are their conclusions the same as the one namdoog mentioned in this thread?
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