Until I Become Me - Vol. 3 Ch. 39

[MangaDex]

 

[Thrembs]

Yeah, that.
100% that.
You get put in the situation, you do what’s expected of someone there, then you find out you don’t belong there, then you look back and realise you never understood what was going on there.
”I should do this, because that’s what Xs do, right?” and then it’s aaaaaaaall STUPID.

edit: boys are gross.
kinda joking, but seriously, casual (and often unintentional) misogyny and objectification of women in (assumedly) all-male groups is super common.
edit 2: since nuance and context are lost on some people, THIS IS WHAT THIS CHAPTER IS ABOUT. SOCIAL GROUPS INFLUENCING BEHAVIOURS. THE THINGS IN THIS COMIC ARE VERY COMMON ASIDE THE MAGICAL BODY CHANGE SHIT.

 

[Ryoga21]

Thanks for the chapter

 

[Astra_Starwalker]

Yeah, that.
100% that.
You get put in the situation, you do what’s expected of someone there, then you find out you don’t belong there, then you look back and realise you never understood what was going on there.
”I should do this, because that’s what Xs do, right?” and then it’s aaaaaaaall STUPID.

edit: boys are gross.
kinda joking, but seriously, casual (and often unintentional) misogyny and objectification of women in (assumedly) all-male groups is super common.

Not at all going to claim that men don't objectify women, cause men do it all the time, intentionally or not.
But I will say that men are most definitely NOT alone when it comes to objectifying the opposite sex, women are just as capable and, in fact, do it probably as often - if not more so - than men do.
It's just that, for whatever stupid reason, men being objectified is deemed OK, while women being objectified is deemed NOT OK...
What I'm getting at is this, if you are going to point out men objectifying women, it's wrong to not at least point out that women do the same to men.

 

[Astra_Starwalker]

Title of the porn video that was shown: "Forcibly fucking a hottie dressed in a Santa Costume"

I can totally understand how that scene would cause Akira to have a case of PTSD, it was eerily similar to what happened to her in the first chapter, and while she has probably had time for the memory to be put into the recesses of her mind by now, seeing that video, that scene, that would have definitely cause the memories to resurface with a vengeance.

In the stairs, when the boy (I forgot his name) reached out to her, that triggered another PTSD reaction, and I can only imagine the reason that he ended up underneath Akira on the bottom of the stairs, is that he had to push himself off the top of the stairs when she didn't reach out and grab his hand in time, took hold of Akira's body however he did, and then turned the two around so they switched positions just before hitting the bottom of the stairs.

It was either do that, or stand at the top of the stairs looking down on Akira as she fell, and quite potentially hurt herself, broke something, or even worse, landed wrong and died. And I'm sure that once Akira realized everything was ok, and she had had time to calm down, she also realized the situation they had been in and the severity of it, so that's why she felt safe enough to grab his hand as sort of a silent "I'm sorry that I flinched in fear from your hand earlier, I didn't mean anything by it, I know you are a good guy, and thank you for saving me."

 

[Rockdrop]

Yeah, that.
100% that.
You get put in the situation, you do what’s expected of someone there, then you find out you don’t belong there, then you look back and realise you never understood what was going on there.
”I should do this, because that’s what Xs do, right?” and then it’s aaaaaaaall STUPID.

edit: boys are gross.
kinda joking, but seriously, casual (and often unintentional) misogyny and objectification of women in (assumedly) all-male groups is super common.

Gotta love the irony of how you have to join in the gender politics in the replies after that post.

 

[Thrembs]

Not at all going to claim that men don't objectify women, cause men do it all the time, intentionally or not.
But I will say that men are most definitely NOT alone when it comes to objectifying the opposite sex, women are just as capable and, in fact, do it probably as often - if not more so - than men do.
It's just that, for whatever stupid reason, men being objectified is deemed OK, while women being objectified is deemed NOT OK...
What I'm getting at is this, if you are going to point out men objectifying women, it's wrong to not at least point out that women do the same to men.

edit: tl;dr, “Yeah, so?”


ah, “all lives matter”, then? This doesn’t need to be “us and them”. This isn’t a blame game. It’s pointing out a systemic problem in how society expects boys and men to act.

I‘ve been in both types of spaces. It is not the same. This Isn’t “one good, other bad” thing. This is “wow, things were really screwed up over there, huh?”
Women-only spaces go too far against men in more of a “could men please stop acting so stupid?” and going too far with it. My wife and I try to avoid it around our daughter. Dont want her to have low expectations or needless biases.

LITERALLY THE POINT OF THIS ARC OF THIS STORY is how boys act/think and are “supposed” to act/think are confusing.
There is an expectation placed on men to treat women like, well, the way depicted in this chapter.
She treated other girls badly because of social pressures, and was then treated (and clearly fantasised about) in a similar way (if not worse), and is looking back confused and anguished.

That’s my point. Boys are pressured into a standard that’s gross and then pressure others into the same thing and on and on for thousands of years. It’s bad for everyone.
The negative expectations of women are more “be cute, hot, and let people hit on you”. An expectation of an unrealistically passive nature as opposed to the unrealistically active nature of male expectations. Both are bad to be out there, but they are different.
It’s hard to even notice the stuff at play if you’re in the system and just working within it. If one starts there and then leaves because they don’t belong, there’s a degree of perspective gained.
Much like one gains a much more acute understanding of the need for more breast cancer research if one has live decades without having breasts and then has to start getting mammograms.

look at the statistics for sexual assault (relevant to the subject) and compare the relevant data and you’ll see a difference. There’s victim-blaming either way, but even there the reasons for that are different.
There’s a reason for all that. Look at any how to raise a son/daughter” book targeted at boomers or their parents. It’s gotten better, but those ideas are still in play.
Expectations for people are screwed up, and the system is broken. So fsck the system up and expect better from people.


Anyway, to say “yeah, but girls probably do the same sort of stuff” is missing the point. The two situations are different, even if they look similar on the surface.
Notable is that there’s less of a history of men being treated as property by women, which filters down in systems and even laws to this day.


”Other people died in the death camps, too!” is a different, but similar “why did you bother saying that?”
I was raised in a Lutheran household/community, and I’ve been Jewish for years. Neither side knows anything about the other, really, but the Lutheran community was actively antisemitic, and the Jewish community in general is just… aware of the existence of Christianity. “Christmas happens, there are crosses on things and they have some books of their own they add onto the Bible.”
Not to say Jewish communities don’t have things to work on! “you don’t look Jewish” is more of a problem within than without! But that’s a different issue with a different history and needs to be examined from a different angle.


Geez, I did not expect the reaction to “ew, boys, lol. But seriously, this sort of stuff is a problem irl, too” to require me breaking down the basics of gender politics in modern society.

 

[Thrembs]

Gotta love the irony of how you have to join in the gender politics in the replies after that post.

not sure where you’re coming from with that statement as it could be taken multiple ways, but one person immediately missed the point of something I said was a joke and OY…

 

[Thrembs]

Title of the porn video that was shown: "Forcibly fucking a hottie dressed in a Santa Costume"

I can totally understand how that scene would cause Akira to have a case of PTSD, it was eerily similar to what happened to her in the first chapter, and while she has probably had time for the memory to be put into the recesses of her mind by now, seeing that video, that scene, that would have definitely cause the memories to resurface with a vengeance.

In the stairs, when the boy (I forgot his name) reached out to her, that triggered another PTSD reaction…

But girls must do the same thing, right?
We need to say that sometimes girls sexually assault men if we mention men sexually assaulting women, right?
Men get PTSD from such things, too.

Always gotta mention when someone else could also experience or do something similar.
/s

 

[Astra_Starwalker]

ah, “all lives matter”, then? This doesn’t need to be “us and them”. This isn’t a blame game. It’s pointing out a systemic problem in how society expects boys and men to act.

I‘ve been in both types of spaces. It is not the same. This Isn’t “one good, other bad” thing. This is “wow, things were really screwed up over there, huh?”
Women-only spaces go too far against men in more of a “could men please stop acting so stupid?” and going too far with it. My wife and I try to avoid it around our daughter. Dont want her to have low expectations or needless biases.

LITERALLY THE POINT OF THIS ARC OF THIS STORY is how boys act/think and are “supposed” to act/think are confusing.
There is an expectation placed on men to treat women like, well, the way depicted in this chapter.
She treated other girls badly because of social pressures, and was then treated (and clearly fantasised about) in a similar way (if not worse), and is looking back confused and anguished.

That’s my point. Boys are pressured into a standard that’s gross and then pressure others into the same thing and on and on for thousands of years. It’s bad for everyone.
The negative expectations of women are more “be cute, hot, and let people hit on you”. An expectation of an unrealistically passive nature as opposed to the unrealistically active nature of male expectations. Both are bad to be out there, but they are different.
It’s hard to even notice the stuff at play if you’re in the system and just working within it. If one starts there and then leaves because they don’t belong, there’s a degree of perspective gained.
Much like one gains a much more acute understanding of the need for more breast cancer research if one has live decades without having breasts and then has to start getting mammograms.

look at the statistics for sexual assault (relevant to the subject) and compare the relevant data and you’ll see a difference. There’s victim-blaming either way, but even there the reasons for that are different.
There’s a reason for all that. Look at any how to raise a son/daughter” book targeted at boomers or their parents. It’s gotten better, but those ideas are still in play.
Expectations for people are screwed up, and the system is broken. So fsck the system up and expect better from people.


Anyway, to say “yeah, but girls probably do the same sort of stuff” is missing the point. The two situations are different, even if they look similar on the surface.
Notable is that there’s less of a history of men being treated as property by women, which filters down in systems and even laws to this day.


”Other people died in the death camps, too!” is a different, but similar “why did you bother saying that?”
I was raised in a Lutheran household/community, and I’ve been Jewish for years. Neither side knows anything about the other, really, but the Lutheran community was actively antisemitic, and the Jewish community in general is just… aware of the existence of Christianity. “Christmas happens, there are crosses on things and they have some books of their own they add onto the Bible.”
Not to say Jewish communities don’t have things to work on! “you don’t look Jewish” is more of a problem within than without! But that’s a different issue with a different history and needs to be examined from a different angle.


Geez, I did not expect the reaction to “ew, boys, lol. But seriously, this sort of stuff is a problem irl, too” to require me breaking down the basics of gender politics in modern society.

TL;DR:
Anyway, you are weird, just accept the fact that women objectify men just as much as - if not more than - men objectify women, and leave everything else out of it.
I could also go on a pointless off-topic tangent if I wanted to, bringing up all kinds of non-related statistics and objectives and points, but I don't want to, cause that wasn't the topic right now.

However, I did spot something about "statistics for sexual assault," so I'm going to assume you are trying to claim that women experience sexual assault far more than men experience sexual assault, and while that may be somewhat true, there are also far more men out there who have experienced sexual assault but do not report it to the police than there are women.

For men, there's this stupid social stigma (I think stigma is correct word?) where men should be stronger than women, so they would be seen as weak if they were to be found out to have lost against a woman. Then there is the fact that the social justice system is extremely and unfairly against men in sexual abuse cases, where it is very easy for a woman to accuse a man of sexually assaulting her even though the man is actually innocent, only for the judge and/or he jury to take the woman's side because people are still more willing to believe the woman than the man.

 

[Astra_Starwalker]

But girls must do the same thing, right?
We need to say that sometimes girls sexually assault men if we mention men sexually assaulting women, right?
Men get PTSD from such things, too.

Always gotta mention when someone else could also experience or do something similar.
/s

Wow, salty much? Why don't you go eat some sugar to sweeten yourself up some, who knows, you might actually like the taste of the sugar.

 

[Astra_Starwalker]

not sure where you’re coming from with that statement as it could be taken multiple ways, but one person immediately missed the point of something I said was a joke and OY…

It was actually the fact that you made a joke out of it that made me even bother commenting on it, honestly.
Men objectifying women isn't any more or less a joke than women objectifying men, to say otherwise would be utterly stupid, because in a perfect world, neither men nor women would be objectifying the other, the very act of objectifying is what is bad, it doesn't matter who does it.

 

[Thrembs]

Wow, salty much? Why don't you go eat some sugar to sweeten yourself up some, who knows, you might actually like the taste of the sugar.

No, just being snarky while pointing out how silly you are.

 

[Thrembs]

It was actually the fact that you made a joke out of it that made me even bother commenting on it, honestly.
Men objectifying women isn't any more or less a joke than women objectifying men, to say otherwise would be utterly stupid, because in a perfect world, neither men nor women would be objectifying the other, the very act of objectifying is what is bad, it doesn't matter who does it.

I can joke about a thing that’s real and not joke about another thing that is also real.
If everyone always had to talk about everything similar any time they said anything no one would bother speaking, because that’s literally impossible.

 

[Thrembs]

TL;DR:
Anyway, you are weird, just accept the fact that women objectify men just as much as - if not more than

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Just dug yourself a hole, jumped in and then said you have the high ground.

Contrary to whatever weird internet cave you live in, most people AREN’T MRAs.

 

[Astra_Starwalker]

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Just dug yourself a hole, jumped in and then said you have the high ground.

Contrary to whatever weird internet cave you live in, most people AREN’T MRAs.

I'm assuming you mean Men's Rights Activist?
That's not what I am, that would mean I overly favor men's rights over women's rights.

 

[Thrembs]

I'm assuming you mean Men's Rights Activist?
That's not what I am, that would mean I overly favor men's rights over women's rights.

No, it’s people who think that men’s rights need advocacy on any level.
People who say things like “men don’t come forward as often as women, because people believe women” which is just wild, or even say that women accusing men of rape is a problem.
Like, what kind of jackass would say that?

 

[urugiru]

In the stairs, when the boy (I forgot his name [it's Shouma -urugiru]) reached out to her, that triggered another PTSD reaction, [...] she didn't reach out and grab his hand in time, took hold of Akira's body however he did, and then turned the two around so they switched positions just before hitting the bottom of the stairs.

[...] And I'm sure that once Akira realized everything was ok, and she had had time to calm down, she also realized the situation they had been in and the severity of it, so that's why she felt safe enough to grab his hand as sort of a silent "I'm sorry that I flinched in fear from your hand earlier, I didn't mean anything by it, I know you are a good guy, and thank you for saving me."

In my reading/viewing of the chapter, I believe she did in fact grab his hand at the last possible moment. Then, one assumes, she pulled him down with him, and yes as you say, as they fell together he pulled her up to ensure she was over top of him. It was in fact because she did reach for his hand that she got his protection. That's important symbolism and growth.
I could get into all the ways this scene is not realistic from a physics standpoint (

Spoiler

how when people actually fall down stairs, they do so a lot more vertically, how she slipped fully past him before he started to react, how if we're assuming she was at serious risk of injury, then how he placed himself would have lead to way greater injury to him, how the height of each stair step and the number of steps varies, how they're probably near the bottom of the flight of stairs but that is a bit questionable in some of the panels, how he moved laterally into the side of the stairs she's falling from, how she flinched away toward the railing but then the foot that slipped meant her body was actually facing him, and poof all of a sudden she's lower than him, so at this point she's done at least a 180, how there's actually a way less complicated way of thinking of this scene if, rather than thinking of her falling backwards, she's actually falling forwards into Shouma the whole time, but that Hatsuki drew gravity poorly at 90 degrees, confusing us all, but that would require fewer awkward movements in space to explain, how if she fell past him before he started reaching out, she'd be falling way too fast for you to be able to reach out to stop her, how no one thought to grab the railings in all this, or brace against a wall, etc. I mean there's so many steps to this fall, with some short ones between panels, and other massive ones, like when she went from starting to fall above him to suddenly past him and almost on the ground. And what, is she falling down from the bottom of the stairs, or is there 7-8 stairs she's falling backwards into.

), but let's just suspend our disbelief instead.

 

[ForTheJerusalem]

That's very lewd.

No, it’s people who think that men’s rights need advocacy on any level.
People who say things like “men don’t come forward as often as women, because people believe women” which is just wild, or even say that women accusing men of rape is a problem.
Like, what kind of jackass would say that?

Denying the fact that women clearly have a lot of social advantages is dumb. Most divorces end in women's favor (especially if it concerns kids), women are believed more easily, women aren't treated as harshly if they rape someone and also the ESG.

 

[Thrembs]

That's very lewd.

Denying the fact that women clearly have a lot of social advantages is dumb. Most divorces end in women's favor (especially if it concerns kids), women are believed more easily, women aren't treated as harshly if they rape someone and also the ESG.

Digging and digging and digging
oy…