Usogui - Vol. 30 Ch. 320 - The Seed Production Of The Labyrinth
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2018
- Messages
- 237
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2019
- Messages
- 173
good job duwang!
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2018
- Messages
- 394
Is the Karamete one of the base requirements for StL challenge? I wasn't aware it was established as one. I guess it's just that great of an achievement to give as "tribute" to attempt StL, which is why Baku would attempt it both times. Him being the root cause of the Labyrinth games and the L-file is quite a surprise too.
Even if Hal lost his memories, I'm relatively sure that he's aware that he'll inherit Kakerou, whatever the inheritance procedure is. Which should probably be factored in when he's talking about Baku attempting the challenge. I don't think he's discounting Baku's ability to win StL with that comment.
Even if Hal lost his memories, I'm relatively sure that he's aware that he'll inherit Kakerou, whatever the inheritance procedure is. Which should probably be factored in when he's talking about Baku attempting the challenge. I don't think he's discounting Baku's ability to win StL with that comment.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2019
- Messages
- 115
So this means that Baku is planning to lose the surpassing the leader all along and not just because he saw that Hal is the leader during actual gamble. But why would he deliberately lose the first time, only to (currently) try and beat him the second time, when he could have just won the first time? I'm guessing that Baku must have a scheme in place if he planned that far ahead.
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 2,035
@RapidLord Not just that, but Baku is preparing Kaji to act as his representative in the second Surpass the Leader challenge. (I think some of us may have forgotten one of the older gambles early in the series, the one that Baku won against Kaji, thus winning the privilege of owning Kaji's life.) The beginning of Usogui seems like a chance meeting between Kaji and Baku, but I think we've yet to understand just why exactly Kaji was recruited by Baku, and if their meeting was by chance in the first place.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2018
- Messages
- 94
Holy shit, major bombshell dropped.
With the "at the time, no one would of dreamed of it," line I thought maybe that included Baku. Like he was oblivious that his words would create the L-file system. But looking at the last page, the dude knew what he was doing. It reminds me of the coffee creamer gamble when Hachina is like "you thought you thought of that yourself, but I made you think it in the first place." Like the police guy probably thinks he's a genius with an original idea, but he was really being manipulated by Baku's words. So that means that Baku created the L-file system so he could gamble against it in the future. It relates kinda to Baku's motives, where he takes away everything from the opponent , except their life, so they can come back stronger. This gamble was so easy he's planting the seeds (using the metaphor of the day) for a more dangerous gamble.
There's other interesting aspects of this chapter. Hal looks really motivated for something, maybe he's planning to fight against Baku in some way? I think the "violent poison" was describing him, so I'm really curious what his plans are. Also page 16, where Baku immediately stops laughing. He had some sort of big sudden thought and it might be just me, but he looks kinda sad. Like it's a "what the heck did I just do" face. But then he gets excited thinking about "the fruit" of his current gamble. Maybe he was so lost in thought that his expression turned blank, or maybe he is feeling some sort of regret towards something? Like maybe he realized that Hal might be mad and attempt to go against him?
So much to think about regarding this chapter, thanks as always Team Duwang!
Edit: I also wanted to just add how this chapter adds a whole new perspective to the Labyrinth and KY arc. I need to reread this manga again soon because there are so many details! I can't remember how quickly it took for Baku to catch on to the purpose of the labyrinth game. Like when he did I thought it was just because Baku's smart and he also had Kyara's info, but the fact that he set the groundwork for the system could be another reason.
I am also confused on the Karamete. Like the purpose of it in the tower gamble was to prevent the police from interfering with Kakerou business. Mostly confused on what this company's relationship to the police actually is and how the Karamete will benefit Baku.
With the "at the time, no one would of dreamed of it," line I thought maybe that included Baku. Like he was oblivious that his words would create the L-file system. But looking at the last page, the dude knew what he was doing. It reminds me of the coffee creamer gamble when Hachina is like "you thought you thought of that yourself, but I made you think it in the first place." Like the police guy probably thinks he's a genius with an original idea, but he was really being manipulated by Baku's words. So that means that Baku created the L-file system so he could gamble against it in the future. It relates kinda to Baku's motives, where he takes away everything from the opponent , except their life, so they can come back stronger. This gamble was so easy he's planting the seeds (using the metaphor of the day) for a more dangerous gamble.
There's other interesting aspects of this chapter. Hal looks really motivated for something, maybe he's planning to fight against Baku in some way? I think the "violent poison" was describing him, so I'm really curious what his plans are. Also page 16, where Baku immediately stops laughing. He had some sort of big sudden thought and it might be just me, but he looks kinda sad. Like it's a "what the heck did I just do" face. But then he gets excited thinking about "the fruit" of his current gamble. Maybe he was so lost in thought that his expression turned blank, or maybe he is feeling some sort of regret towards something? Like maybe he realized that Hal might be mad and attempt to go against him?
So much to think about regarding this chapter, thanks as always Team Duwang!
Edit: I also wanted to just add how this chapter adds a whole new perspective to the Labyrinth and KY arc. I need to reread this manga again soon because there are so many details! I can't remember how quickly it took for Baku to catch on to the purpose of the labyrinth game. Like when he did I thought it was just because Baku's smart and he also had Kyara's info, but the fact that he set the groundwork for the system could be another reason.
I am also confused on the Karamete. Like the purpose of it in the tower gamble was to prevent the police from interfering with Kakerou business. Mostly confused on what this company's relationship to the police actually is and how the Karamete will benefit Baku.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2018
- Messages
- 394
@Ghetsis
When re-reading it, it feels like Baku knew what was going to happen with that gamble literally while Kaji was there. If you remember, he said it'd work out if Kaji went second. Baku knew Kaji was going to lose immediately and so he could be saved quickly as well. If he knew Kaji had to be saved in the first place, he'd have known about the situation with the Labyrinth game. At least, that's how I see the situation. If not then, he likely knew as soon as he entered, as implied by Kadokura (rip).
Wasn't the purpose of the tower gamble to force the Karamete to succeed? The gamble was to force the Kakerou vs Police situation that we got, and the point was to stall for enough time to complete the Karamete.
But in relation to this gamble, it's most likely that an organization with ties to the police being controlled by Kakerou can perhaps allow Kakerou itself to force the police's hand in certain matters. Kinda like how ACIA ended up being of use to Kakerou. Problem with this is that Baku would have had to know about the ties to the police part before facing Sakai's son.
That aside, an observation that ties into the StL game that we know of so far(not an actual spoiler):
When re-reading it, it feels like Baku knew what was going to happen with that gamble literally while Kaji was there. If you remember, he said it'd work out if Kaji went second. Baku knew Kaji was going to lose immediately and so he could be saved quickly as well. If he knew Kaji had to be saved in the first place, he'd have known about the situation with the Labyrinth game. At least, that's how I see the situation. If not then, he likely knew as soon as he entered, as implied by Kadokura (rip).
Wasn't the purpose of the tower gamble to force the Karamete to succeed? The gamble was to force the Kakerou vs Police situation that we got, and the point was to stall for enough time to complete the Karamete.
But in relation to this gamble, it's most likely that an organization with ties to the police being controlled by Kakerou can perhaps allow Kakerou itself to force the police's hand in certain matters. Kinda like how ACIA ended up being of use to Kakerou. Problem with this is that Baku would have had to know about the ties to the police part before facing Sakai's son.
That aside, an observation that ties into the StL game that we know of so far(not an actual spoiler):
Souichi said that if Baku chose poker or something else, he would have easily won. What if this wasn't banter and Souichi actually remembered Baku during the StL match? That could be the true reason Baku was smiling at the end of the match; there was a way to bring Hal back after all.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2018
- Messages
- 94
@Veshv
Thank you for the clarifications. Baku's reasoning for saying Kaji needed to be saved could also be that he had no confidence in Kaji's gambling abilities (which is understandable). The "it will work out if Kaji goes second line" is pretty interesting. Baku couldn't have figured that out before he played labyrinth himself if he didn't have some other information.
Also thanks for reminding me about the Karamete. I now remember that in KY a bunch of powerful companies were threatened to accept the karamete or their secrets would be exposed. I thought it was so that Baku could easily gamble against those companies in the future. But with this flashback, he already gambled against the head of the company and is in control. And you're right, the purpose of the tower was to stall and the karamete wasn't originally intended to infiltrate the police (I forgot if it did eventually).
I feel like Baku would figure out one way or another that Sakai's company was involved with the police and that's why he chose to gamble the son, but I can't be sure.
Souichi at the beginning of the surpassing the leader says something like "so you're Baku-kun," so I don't think he remembers Baku. Or maybe he has some sort of unconscious feeling that he's seen Baku somewhere before. Either way, Baku must of figured something out during the game to be smiling.
Thank you for the clarifications. Baku's reasoning for saying Kaji needed to be saved could also be that he had no confidence in Kaji's gambling abilities (which is understandable). The "it will work out if Kaji goes second line" is pretty interesting. Baku couldn't have figured that out before he played labyrinth himself if he didn't have some other information.
Also thanks for reminding me about the Karamete. I now remember that in KY a bunch of powerful companies were threatened to accept the karamete or their secrets would be exposed. I thought it was so that Baku could easily gamble against those companies in the future. But with this flashback, he already gambled against the head of the company and is in control. And you're right, the purpose of the tower was to stall and the karamete wasn't originally intended to infiltrate the police (I forgot if it did eventually).
I feel like Baku would figure out one way or another that Sakai's company was involved with the police and that's why he chose to gamble the son, but I can't be sure.
Souichi at the beginning of the surpassing the leader says something like "so you're Baku-kun," so I don't think he remembers Baku. Or maybe he has some sort of unconscious feeling that he's seen Baku somewhere before. Either way, Baku must of figured something out during the game to be smiling.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2018
- Messages
- 394
@Ghetsis
Here's the specific page where it was said: https://mangadex.org/chapter/204635/3
I don't think he ever specifically said Kaji needed to be saved, it was just the reason he said it's better for Kaji to go second. But also, at chapter 98 ( https://mangadex.org/chapter/204657/21 ) , it's shown that before Baku went to the Police Department, he captured the two people who obtained samples from Kaji (hair and fingerprints, I think), so he already knew what the reason those two got the samples was. I think he knew Kaji was in a rigged game that'd end fast, as well as what the point of the game was, right from when Kyara told him where Kaji was taken.
That arc really does take on a new meaning after having read this chapter.
You're right about the StL match, Souichi had the memory of Baku basically implanted into him by Yakou, so my point about actually remembering can't be right. I wonder what he could have realized?
Here's the specific page where it was said: https://mangadex.org/chapter/204635/3
I don't think he ever specifically said Kaji needed to be saved, it was just the reason he said it's better for Kaji to go second. But also, at chapter 98 ( https://mangadex.org/chapter/204657/21 ) , it's shown that before Baku went to the Police Department, he captured the two people who obtained samples from Kaji (hair and fingerprints, I think), so he already knew what the reason those two got the samples was. I think he knew Kaji was in a rigged game that'd end fast, as well as what the point of the game was, right from when Kyara told him where Kaji was taken.
That arc really does take on a new meaning after having read this chapter.
You're right about the StL match, Souichi had the memory of Baku basically implanted into him by Yakou, so my point about actually remembering can't be right. I wonder what he could have realized?
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2018
- Messages
- 259
@Lithe
I believe the waitress was reacting to the president not removing the 'black protuberance'. While she was standing there and listening in to the gamble, she vaguely realized the gamble was rigged and asked the chef to confirm her theory. I think the author was being deceptive by placing Hal right in front of her.
I believe the waitress was reacting to the president not removing the 'black protuberance'. While she was standing there and listening in to the gamble, she vaguely realized the gamble was rigged and asked the chef to confirm her theory. I think the author was being deceptive by placing Hal right in front of her.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2019
- Messages
- 92
Is it just me, or this clam's gamble is totally reminiscent of the creamer's one?
I mean: It takes place in a restaurant, they're using food, "I told you, I didn't need any heating up from your nine" is kinda a "I told you, if you want to puke, tell me in advance"-like prediction, and finally Baku just pulled a "You decided it AFTER I did" on commissioner Sasaoka.
After the last arc, I was thinking the Leader might be too OP even for Baku.
So it's great to see our main character do the same kind of tricks.
I mean: It takes place in a restaurant, they're using food, "I told you, I didn't need any heating up from your nine" is kinda a "I told you, if you want to puke, tell me in advance"-like prediction, and finally Baku just pulled a "You decided it AFTER I did" on commissioner Sasaoka.
After the last arc, I was thinking the Leader might be too OP even for Baku.
So it's great to see our main character do the same kind of tricks.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2019
- Messages
- 331
@RapidLord I don't think this chapter necessarily points to Baku planning on losing the StL challenge. Him being the one who planted the idea of Labyrinth gamble is simply him being true to his words and creating circumstances where an exciting gamble will come to his way in the future. That's why he got the nosebleed, he got excited thinking about how interesting the gamble that will be made possible by the idea he planted will be. I think it's more likely that Baku is still serious about StL at this point. I mean, it's definitely possible, but even though he planted the seed, he had no way of knowing precisely if it would bear fruit, he also did not know at this point that he wouldn't die if he lost the StL challenge, because at this point in time Tatsuki is still the leader, and I'm not sure if Baku knows that Hal is related and might inherit Kakerou from him, which would be the only scenario where he actually survives after losing the StL game. That's why it doesn't strike me as that likely that Baku is already planning to throw, but we shall see.
- -
Hal's determined look seems to suggest to me that he's planning on becoming the Leader of Kakerou as fast as possible, in order to have a rematch with Baku and beat him this time during the StL game (or something like that), which is why the chapter said the seeds one unknowingly planted without being aware of could also grow into an unexpected poison while showing his face. But remember, it's not yet the 23rd, so probably in the next chapter or two we will see the truth about Hal's death/disappearance/memory loss. Then, two and a half years after that, Souichi is the Leader of Kakerou and Baku and him play against each other, and I still think that Baku losing is related to him not being aware that Souichi was alive.
@Ominous I wonder if Baku will ever use the right to Kaji's life explicitly. At that point there was no other possibility to play the StL game, so he had to make use of Kaji, which is also one of the reasons why Baku made Kaji feel indispensable to his plan, because at that point he was (and maybe/probably still is); but interestingly enough, the seed he planted in this chapter was what enabled him to get rid of his StL loss, which means he is able to challenge it himself without having to use Kaji as his representative, so I'm not sure if Baku is still planning on Kaji being the one actually challenging and him being behind the scenes making the moves. It's not necessary anymore, but I guess we'll see.
@Jonui I totally see what you're saying. I think it's good that the author is showing that Baku is just as OP if not more (he did win the book gamble, after all); although present Hachina is a much stronger opponent than Hal, since he's become much more ruthless and wouldn't do things like help the opponent by catching the book when it fell off the shelf, or not being willing to lower a book's value to win the gamble (like Baku).
- -
Hal's determined look seems to suggest to me that he's planning on becoming the Leader of Kakerou as fast as possible, in order to have a rematch with Baku and beat him this time during the StL game (or something like that), which is why the chapter said the seeds one unknowingly planted without being aware of could also grow into an unexpected poison while showing his face. But remember, it's not yet the 23rd, so probably in the next chapter or two we will see the truth about Hal's death/disappearance/memory loss. Then, two and a half years after that, Souichi is the Leader of Kakerou and Baku and him play against each other, and I still think that Baku losing is related to him not being aware that Souichi was alive.
@Ominous I wonder if Baku will ever use the right to Kaji's life explicitly. At that point there was no other possibility to play the StL game, so he had to make use of Kaji, which is also one of the reasons why Baku made Kaji feel indispensable to his plan, because at that point he was (and maybe/probably still is); but interestingly enough, the seed he planted in this chapter was what enabled him to get rid of his StL loss, which means he is able to challenge it himself without having to use Kaji as his representative, so I'm not sure if Baku is still planning on Kaji being the one actually challenging and him being behind the scenes making the moves. It's not necessary anymore, but I guess we'll see.
@Jonui I totally see what you're saying. I think it's good that the author is showing that Baku is just as OP if not more (he did win the book gamble, after all); although present Hachina is a much stronger opponent than Hal, since he's become much more ruthless and wouldn't do things like help the opponent by catching the book when it fell off the shelf, or not being willing to lower a book's value to win the gamble (like Baku).
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2019
- Messages
- 92
Well, I'm really not sure about Baku being serious at winning the StL game. In fact, I think this first game was a seed. A seed planted by Baku so that he could gamble again against an even more dangerous Souichi AND a seed planted by Leader so that he could gamble against an even stronger Usogui. After all, seeing how Hal is captivated by Baku, it wouldn't be a surprise if he suddendly got the same interest for thrilling gambles. Maybe Leader spared Usogui's life just to let him get stronger. That would explain Usogui's smile at the end of the game, like "I KNEW you had it in you not to completely finish me off, Hal. You caught the same virus as me.". That would also explain the (probably inconscious) smile on Souichi's face when he said "If Usogui wins [The tower's gamble], I'll gladly accept his challenge". We don't get to see him smile very often, after all.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2019
- Messages
- 331
@Jonui In that case, Baku would have to know about Hal's memory issues, that he will survive until the StL game, and that he will become the Leader of Kakerou. Not only that, but Hal would also have to remember Baku, and it's been implied that something will happen to Hal very soon, so that strikes me as very unlikely. Also, during the first StL challenge Yakou reminded Souichi of who Usogui was, which means he had forgotten about Baku, and so if he didn't remember Baku there would've been no reason to spare him. All of this doesn't really support your theory of Baku and Hal planning that far ahead even from this point on. Now, if Souichi didn't remember Baku at all it also strikes me as a bit odd that he would spare him, so I think there's something amiss there, my hypothesis is that he was either faking not remembering Baku (less likely), or despite not having his memories of him, he had a feeling that he knew him and that along with some other things motivated him perhaps subconsciously to spare him. Either way, I don't think everything that happened was part of their plan.
I think there's quite a few things about that gamble that we don't understand yet, but we probably will very soon.
I think there's quite a few things about that gamble that we don't understand yet, but we probably will very soon.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2019
- Messages
- 92
@299792458 Yeah, I agree it's unlikely that Baku could anticipate Hal becoming Kakerou's leader or having memory losses. My theory is a little weak in that regard, indeed.
But Souichi doesn't actually have to remember Usogui to spare him. If this habit of letting opponents survive so that they can become more dangerous threats was really engrained into him, it'll probably stay right in place even with memory loss. After all, I think it's been made clear that Souichi has improved in ruthlessness and quick thinking, despite not remembering all the experiences that made him so tough. He's a man who keeps evolving, and his forgetfulness does not make him regress. Or at least, I don't see it like that.
But well, even so, I don't think we had any indication yet that Hal wanted to be a bit more like Baku. All that's really supporting my ideas is the fact that sparing Usogui's life after the StL game was a very Usogui-like thing to do.
And the more I read this page, the more it sounds like an explanation as for why Usogui didn't die at the StL game (but maybe I'm seeing things ; it would not be a first with this damn manga) : https://mangadex.org/chapter/711305/5
But Souichi doesn't actually have to remember Usogui to spare him. If this habit of letting opponents survive so that they can become more dangerous threats was really engrained into him, it'll probably stay right in place even with memory loss. After all, I think it's been made clear that Souichi has improved in ruthlessness and quick thinking, despite not remembering all the experiences that made him so tough. He's a man who keeps evolving, and his forgetfulness does not make him regress. Or at least, I don't see it like that.
But well, even so, I don't think we had any indication yet that Hal wanted to be a bit more like Baku. All that's really supporting my ideas is the fact that sparing Usogui's life after the StL game was a very Usogui-like thing to do.
And the more I read this page, the more it sounds like an explanation as for why Usogui didn't die at the StL game (but maybe I'm seeing things ; it would not be a first with this damn manga) : https://mangadex.org/chapter/711305/5
Similar threads
