Yondome wa Iya na Shizokusei Majutsushi - Ch. 60 - The Shadow That Corrupts the Slave Mine

[FMPower]

Spoiler: Imma spoil you :3

Heinz in the novel later comes as an hypocritical idiot, he made the Alda's peaceful faction aimed to protect all of Vida's races, this of course doesn't fully follow on it because he still went around destroying settlements of ghouls and such, nobles only wishing to accept this faction to be closer to the hero Heinz, and later comes to accept that the only way to atone is to get killed by Vandallieu as what he's done is unforgivable (he walks back from the settlement between him and van because of the demon lord fragments but still plans to fight Van later on so he can get killed by him).

Spoiler: Did you know :D

He later goes to release Bellwood from a seal of an Evil God that was tormenting the old hero by making him relive all of his mistakes and sins over and over again, by telling him "It couldn't be helped" (or something along those lines).

Guess I'll just have to wait and see how that all plays out to decide on the quality.

 

[Gotham2298]

Wait, the new princess lefdia is just a right hand? I can't tell if it's a missed opportunity or if I am way too tired to tell between left and right in images

I’m holding my phone in my left hand, so I have a good comparison.

 

[Gotham2298]

The next you know, he’ll use that hand to restore her sister’s body.

 

[GreC_89]

Stupid sexy ghosts, it's like wearing nothing at all

In her defense she conserve mana. She Can make her 'Clothes' bigger but they made out of flames and required mana to maintain.

The next you know, he’ll use that hand to restore her sister’s body.

There no need to restore it only to find it.

Spoiler: Got stolen

Spoiler: By this guy

He already shown up in manga and should be explained as well.

 

[Flexue]

I wish that elf could comfort me too (p14).

Thanks the translation!

 

[theblasblas]

I don't know if it means the writing is really good or really bad, but I don't feel the hatred for Hienz. Even in this chapter, when his party mates try to convince him to let go of his guilt, he never actually agrees with them. I understand why Van hates him, obviously, but I can also see his side and understand why he might not have have questioned his orders as an adventurer. At least not questioned it enough to abandon his quest before succeeding.

Maybe I need a re-read to remember the circumstances of his carrying out of the quest.

It's easy to judge as an audience with more information and perspectives, but that can lead to mistakes by assuming each character has the same level of understanding as we do.

I definitely think its the author's intent to show that Heins isn't a bad person. The tragedy of it all is that despite that, conflict between him and Van is inevitable.

While I can understand why some of the people here are 100% on Van's side, I think closing themselves off to even the idea of Heinz being a good person, making up stuff to convince themselves that everything he does is somehow evil, just prevents them from fully enjoying this story.

 

[Bladist]

I definitely think its the author's intent to show that Heins isn't a bad person. The tragedy of it all is that despite that, conflict between him and Van is inevitable.

While I can understand why some of the people here are 100% on Van's side, I think closing themselves off to even the idea of Heinz being a good person, making up stuff to convince themselves that everything he does is somehow evil, just prevents them from fully enjoying this story.

You're right: Heinz isn't a bad person. In fact, he's downright decent. If any of us met a guy like him on the street (and weren't introverts or otherwise easily turned off by people) we'd warm up to him pretty quickly.

The problem is that this isn't our story, or even his; it's Van's. Van, who has a legitimate and justified reason to want revenge. Van, who could probably make up with Heinz if the latter truly apologized and tried to work together with the former on making things better for Van's subordinates/family and Vida's races.

But that unfortunately can't happen for one big reason: the only people around Heinz for him to listen to are people who listen to the people who listen to the people who listen to the people solely responsible for this situation (Alda, Bellwood & Rodcorte). It would take a pretty big event to upheave Heinz's entire faith and Van's Mental Corruption and get them into the same place and of a mind to talk things out without ignoring the other's views, and the way the story's written there's nothing that can facilitate that before Heinz drinks the Kool-Aid and becomes a legitimate antagonist to Van. I dunno, Fitun certainly didn't. Maybe Asakura could.

 

[GreC_89]

You're right: Heinz isn't a bad person. In fact, he's downright decent. If any of us met a guy like him on the street (and weren't introverts or otherwise easily turned off by people) we'd warm up to him pretty quickly.

The problem is that this isn't our story, or even his; it's Van's. Van, who has a legitimate and justified reason to want revenge. Van, who could probably make up with Heinz if the latter truly apologized and tried to work together with the former on making things better for Van's subordinates/family and Vida's races.

But that unfortunately can't happen for one big reason: the only people around Heinz for him to listen to are people who listen to the people who listen to the people who listen to the people solely responsible for this situation (Alda, Bellwood & Rodcorte). It would take a pretty big event to upheave Heinz's entire faith and Van's Mental Corruption and get them into the same place and of a mind to talk things out without ignoring the other's views, and the way the story's written there's nothing that can facilitate that before Heinz drinks the Kool-Aid and becomes a legitimate antagonist to Van. I dunno, Fitun certainly didn't. Maybe Asakura could.

In a 'Normal' World he do will be decent person, but this world all but normal. Its dying world, divided, full of corruption (internal and external). There need for visionary and revolutionary, not for cookie-cuter hero.
Another problem that he working similar like a spokesperson for a corrupt government, can say only written BS that higher-ups wrote for public (and believe in it) but public see BS and questioned back.
Only thing i disagree, probably because i read novel, that Van Can forgive Heinz. I think that the moment with Priest and Spear show up how insane and angry Van is. He too irrational to simply forgive him. And Van himself became aware of it.
As for 'event' it need to be on the same scale as Darcia's torture. Due to it instigated by vampires its second biggest F* you that evil gods given to Alda (first sealing Bellwood, by a different god), breaking his most treasured puppet (carefully prepared vessel for Bellwood) by opening his eyes to reality. Sadly not enough. If he could witness which measures Alda undertook in final battle.
Asakura???

I definitely think its the author's intent to show that Heins isn't a bad person. The tragedy of it all is that despite that, conflict between him and Van is inevitable.

While I can understand why some of the people here are 100% on Van's side, I think closing themselves off to even the idea of Heinz being a good person, making up stuff to convince themselves that everything he does is somehow evil, just prevents them from fully enjoying this story.

The intention is there. The fact that there is such discussions about Heinz (and divided to such extent) shows that author followed in right direction. Unfortunately there something missing there. Some kind 'secret ingredient' that prevent him to join the rest of proper characters. Like he under cooked. I blame author inability/lack of skill to properly convey what is Heinz is. In fact other enemies, despite being simple, is understandable and working great.
Probably similar problem with modern western villains, trying make them 'relatable'.

 

[Bladist]

Asakura???

Braver dude who was secretly working against the Bravers and Amamiya on Origin. His name started with an 'R', I believe. Rikudou or something. Around the time I stopped reading, the prevalent theory was that he was going to be the real main big bad guy for Van, rather than Alda, Heinz or Bellwood.

 

[GreC_89]

Braver dude who was secretly working against the Bravers and Amamiya on Origin. His name started with an 'R', I believe. Rikudou or something. Around the time I stopped reading, the prevalent theory was that he was going to be the real main big bad guy for Van, rather than Alda, Heinz or Bellwood.

Rikudou Hijiri also known as Avalon. He not only failed to unite this two, battle conclusion divided them even further. Fun fact there was some intention from Heinz to end this feud. Not a smartest idea, but its his own.
The first braver was come to my mind was Minami Asagi aka Mage Masher, so i having J Jonah Jameson reaction.
Heinz and Alda are perfectly themed Last Boss for Van and in general, even if in retrospect. His main motivation is "Living Happily with Warm Family" and that impossible as long as Heinz (for him) and Alda (for his family) alive. Then there interesting twist that in that to win that battle he need to accept his true nature (Riden vs Monsoon ) that he denied and run away all this time.

 

[blobbowastaken]

^^^ I just want Darcia to come back already so she can guide Van.

 

[NecessaryEvil.]

Did you guys drop it?

 

[VanillaEnjoyer]

Pete the centipede... "centipete"... the dad jokes are everywhere...

Also, another muscled lady for Van to ogle.

Got it a bit backwards. Rodiot didn't remove any cheat skills, rather he prepared a bunch of them for Van/Hiroto in advance because he knew someone with a huge soul was coming, but gave them to the wrong person. Without any cheats to take up space, Van is left with a massive mana pool, a side effect of which is that destiny attempts to fuck him over at every turn. (This is explained in, like, Chapter 1 and/or 2 of the novel, I think).

If you're wondering why Van has had such a good turn of fortune as Vandalieu, it's because When his soul was traveling to Lambda to be born, Vida woke up, saw it, got reminded of Zakkart and decided to bless it with a bit of luck, so it could live a happy life. This was enough to overpower most of the "shit destiny" effect.


The reasons we hate Heinz are twofold. First, Darcia was the first nice thing to happen to Van in three (four) lifetimes.

Let's look at the facts:

1. Life 1 (Hiroto Amamiya): Parents died when he was an infant, raised by an abusive aunt and uncle who squandered his inheritance and insurance money on themselves, denied him the most basic of necessities as "luxuries", and would beat him for the smallest thing, such as having a new pencil that a classmate gave him after seeing Hiroto's pencil box full of literal nubs. Dies trying to futilely save someone, which she doesn't even remember.
2. Life 2 (Experiment Whatever): Sold at birth by his egg donor to a research facility, tortured and experimented on daily for twenty years, gets killed by his handler in a fit of pique, possesses and reanimates his own body with his unique new magic and stages a break from the facility along with the other experiments only to be mercilessly gunned down by the very people who were supposed to help him the moment he gets outside.
3. Life 3 (Vandalieu): Stripped of most of his abilities and cursed to never gain power in the conventional ways, lives for one year with his new mother before said mother gets captured, tortured and executed.
   [*]Life 0 (Zakkart): Orphaned at a young age, had to work hard to make something of himself, summoned to fight in a war on another planet. The person who should be his best friend refuses to get along with him, he dies by being too much of a threat for the enemy to ignore, his soul then gets shattered by the demon king, and later on what's left gets composted by Rodcorte, along with the other soul fragments and the demon king's soul.
   

So, Van has gotten his first bit of happiness and unconditional love in multiple lifetimes, and the when it gets taken away from him the first thing he hears are people gassing up this "Heinz" fella as the one who caught his mother. So naturally, he swears a vendetta on the person who took away the one good thing that had ever happened to him. The whole thing is from his point of view, and all of us feel for the guy, so of course we side with him as the protagonist.

Secondly, and I had to have this explained to me as well, was meeting Selen in Orbaume, and hearing what Heinz has been doing since that night in Mirg. Van's reaction to hearing that Heinz has turned over a new leaf and begun protecting Dhampirs and their non-vampire parents as penance for what he did to Van and Darcia incurs the very logical response of "why couldn't you have come to that conclusion before you killed my mother?" And then after that, what really sealed the coffin is when, as in this chapter, Heinz went upstairs and let Edgar and Diana convince him that he was right and the vampire child was wrong because Heinz really was working to atone for his actions, and atoning nullified the crimes of his past. In that one moment, Ketchup's motivations went from atonement to sophistry, and everyone hates sophistry.

Third reason (I know I said two) is PR. Van is the protagonist, and we want him to succeed. Never mind the mental corruption, cult of personality or even the fact that in spite of those two qualities Van is a decent guy; he's the protagonist of the story, and we're reading it because we want him to succeed. Van wants to kill Heinz, so we want to seem him kill Heinz, and the story gets us into Van's head so we can understand his mindset. Or Van's mental corruption is crossing the realms of fiction and we're all twisted.

But, a certain type of person is going to like reading stories like these, where the protagonist isn't a good guy, but they still wanna see what happens. Whether they're a serial murderer (Summoned Slaughterer), a war criminal (Nidoume no Jinsei), a rapist (Redo of Healer), an amoral death god (Overlord) or whatever the hell Kazuma is, we're gonna get into their heads, and make their problems our problems for as long as we read the story, because we want them to succeed.

TL;DR We're all fucked in the head, get out while you still can.

FINALLY! Someone who understands why Heinz is not out of the fires of vengeance yet and why Van is driven insane in the first place! As I said previously: Nobody is entitled to forgiveness. His comrades are coping and try to sweep the incident under the carpet, because it doesn't fit with how they view themselves. For now, I cannot see proper goodwill from anyone but Heinz.

The meeting with Selen causes distress to Van for two reasons: One is as you said and the other is the frustration of having to tolerate his continued existence. Dude is right there and Van can't kill him. He even has to listen to people praising him for having a change of heart AFTER getting Darcia killed. Van understands what it implies and he HATES it. Imagine being told that you're wrong for hating your mothers murderer, just because they saved someone else's! He's already insane and that just made him break down.

 

[ChaucerDog]

Pete the centipede... "centipete"... the dad jokes are everywhere...

Also, another muscled lady for Van to ogle.

FINALLY! Someone who understands why Heinz is not out of the fires of vengeance yet and why Van is driven insane in the first place! As I said previously: Nobody is entitled to forgiveness. His comrades are coping and try to sweep the incident under the carpet, because it doesn't fit with how they view themselves. For now, I cannot see proper goodwill from anyone but Heinz.

The meeting with Selen causes distress to Van for two reasons: One is as you said and the other is the frustration of having to tolerate his continued existence. Dude is right there and Van can't kill him. He even has to listen to people praising him for having a change of heart AFTER getting Darcia killed. Van understands what it implies and he HATES it. Imagine being told that you're wrong for hating your mothers murdered, just because they saved someone else's! He's already insane and that just made him break down.

This is like a Harley Quinn situation for me, meaning the character did something terrible and wants to make up for it. That's fair but why do they, the perpetrator, get to choose how to atone? Why do they get to choose to go and be a hero? Imagine if someone broke into a house, gunned down the person living there, and decides to be the neighborhood watch as atonement. The victims and their families don't care about how the perpetrator feels, they want justice or, in this case, plain ol revenge. Maybe his death isn't the answer but parading around as a hero, at least to Van, is also not an option.

 

[VanillaEnjoyer]

This is like a Harley Quinn situation for me, meaning the character did something terrible and wants to make up for it. That's fair but why do they, the perpetrator, get to choose how to atone? Why do they get to choose to go and be a hero? Imagine if someone broke into a house, gunned down the person living there, and decides to be the neighborhood watch as atonement. The victims and their families don't care about how the perpetrator feels, they want justice or, in this case, plain ol revenge. Maybe his death isn't the answer but parading around as a hero, at least to Van, is also not an option.

That's exactly the problem. The victims decide if the perpetrator is forgiven or not and anyone faulting them for not doing so is a "holier-than-thou" asshole, which is what I think is the problem with Heinz' comrades.

Revenge is valid and can also be justice.

 

[JaBBerSmack]

Big lady

 

[Zethuron]

Acting decisively there.
Im curious though what would he think if he knew about him regretting what he did, and going on a penance because of it.