Isekai Craft Gurashi ~Jiyuu Kimama na Seisan Shoku no Honobono Slow Life~ - Ch. 34

[HaikenEdge]

He is someone holding authority, which the MC and his group of merry men have no realistic chance to go against.

You've seen the extent of what Miyabi can do, right? Saying MC has no realistic chance of going against the Duke is ignoring the fact that Miyabi by himself is enough to completely alter the power dynamic of the world, if he so chooses to.

 

[CapnAndy]

Please don’t let those utoon fuckers run you off

 

[dudeofalldudesbro]

That is a little more than a week, after being stuck in heavy rain, snow, road blocks, escorting a slow noble carriage. It's not far fetch to assume if they traveled themselves and without the weather issues, it'll be less than a week one way, maybe even half a week and a week back and forth.

Couple the independent and faster traveling time above and without knowledge of a hidden tunnel and high speed transport and constant surveillance, no one will realistically find out.

11 days is already me being generous as I removed 2 more days than actually shown, there's no way a commoner can make the trip in less time. Road block were a non-issue as is with Miyabi bypassed the problem, so you wouldn't save any more time there, same with snow. You put the noble carriage as taking more time, I'd say that it takes less time as it's a direct route. Commoners don't have personal carriages, that means they would be traveling on shared carriage that would take time to stop at towns along the way. MC's one way trip back from the Capital took 1 month (probably where I remembered 1 month travel from). When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter how quick the theoretically fastest trip could take, it matter what the common expectation of how long the trip would take to not raise suspicion.

All of that of course doesn't matter because as I said in the last post, the Duke's daughter already knew about the plan the morning after it was thought up, so making it in secret was already a non-starter.

 

[kaminomikan]

In a world were the concept of paved/pitched road doesn't exist outside cities, running a car isn't going to be feasible, especially with what MC is trying to achieve as explained in prior chapter.

On a unpitched/unpaved road, the maximum speed a standard normal car could achieve is around 10-20 Kmph. Not to forget, a road doesn't always go straight and has to go around various obstacles.

where are you getting the max speed on a road that can be traversed by a horse carriage, can't be traveled at more than 20 km/h? That would only be on mountain roads where a bad turn could end you down a cliff, but mc can easily make a tunnel through the mountain (he is going to do the full distance for the train), and wouldn't need to be tied to the guilds and nobles call.

Normal off-road vehicles in most cases can't easily travel higher than 20 kmph, while MC is trying to achieve a travel speed of 50 kmph.

Again, where are you getting 20km/h? a 4WD can easily pull 50km/h and a max of 80km/h on high. mc is just choosing a train, because he is a jap. So he chooses a train (metro) because that's what the common jap knows.

He, needing to build from one city to the other needs the permission of the lord, and needs to make the thing attractive for them to get that permit, he doesn't need their $ investment for him to build it.

if he goes with a car, he would have finished the thing already, and wouldn't have to please the duke nor the guild guys. and the 590km of distance at 50km/h would allow him the same half day of driving. Again he is choosing a train, because as a jap that's what he knows.

 

[Morose]

where are you getting the max speed on a road that can be traversed by a horse carriage, can't be traveled at more than 20 km/h? That would only be on mountain roads where a bad turn could end you down a cliff, but mc can easily make a tunnel through the mountain (he is going to do the full distance for the train), and wouldn't need to be tied to the guilds and nobles call.


Again, where are you getting 20km/h? a 4WD can easily pull 50km/h and a max of 80km/h on high. mc is just choosing a train, because he is a jap. So he chooses a train (metro) because that's what the common jap knows.

He, needing to build from one city to the other needs the permission of the lord, and needs to make the thing attractive for them to get that permit, he doesn't need their $ investment for him to build it.

if he goes with a car, he would have finished the thing already, and wouldn't have to please the duke nor the guild guys. and the 590km of distance at 50km/h would allow him the same half day of driving. Again he is choosing a train, because as a jap that's what he knows.

Because i live in a country which has a history of bad road infrastructure for decades, especially in rural areas, and i have personally since childhood never seen a car go higher than 20 kmph on unpitched/unpaved rural road because it can basically damage the vehicle itself, not to mention the horrible shake (even with shock-absorbing system) as the speed increases. And i am not even talking about mountain roads.

And i think you forgot that the 590km distance is a straight line distance, not the actual by-road distance which is even longer by a lot (maybe even close to 1000 km). And Cars can never travel at a sustained max speed, they would have to reduce their speed in a lot of situations, unlike Trains especially underground ones which travel on tracks and doesn't need to slow down unless actually needed so can go at high speed sustained.

Also, did you forget what happened the last time MC dig a tunnel through a mountain?
They were attacked by a swarm of Slimes that was inside the cave in the mountain.

And yeah, you are right that MC is choose Trains because it is more common for a Japanese to know about (as buying Cars and maintaining them is expensive in Japan and is not really economically viable for majority).
But in that sense, he could have gone for a Airplane as well, since Japanese people do travel around the world a lot, as traveling abroad is cheaper for them as they can travel visa-free in over 150+ countries.

But MC went with trains because it is much easier for him than both Airplane and Cars.
Even historically, Trains were first invented followed by Cars and then Airplane.

Yeah, MC could possibly had created a Car, and had went to the location back and forth, but then he would have to not only help create a proper road to help the car reach maximum speed, he would also have to clear out all the obstacles to reduce travel time. Not to mentioned create a Car which doesn't leave the passenger in a bad state after traveling in it for straight 12 hours non-stop over 600km distance.
All that by himself, including material gathering and even engineering the system for the Car, since if he did it as a personal project, he possibly couldn't have asked for help from that Dwarf guy or his team members (including Karon) because they had their own guild jobs to do.

 

[Morose]

Did you missed the part where I said the manga is the way it is because he values his relationships with the people in the country? Current generation snob my ass, learn to read.

I didn't miss that, but i said it because the point you said felt ridiculous.
Just because someone is giving some amount of issues, you say that it would be better to leave the job and work elsewhere, forgetting that, in many places finding a job is so hard that, people literally accept straight out bullying, exploitation & corruption because they don't want to lose their work as their is high competition and there is always someone else to replace you.
So, in majority of Asian countries, Compromise is standard if you want to have a job and earn.

 

[xEternalSoul]

First of all, the duke might be an "asshole" in our modern world standard, buuut the setting here is medieval feudalism. He is someone holding authority, which the MC and his group of merry men have no realistic chance to go against. The duke even listening to the MC at all shows that he respect his skill/character.

Second of all, have you seen how the duke did a total background check on the MC after realizing what he could do? If there even was a chance that the MC could, like you said, offering his services to different (potentially rival) countries? Whoops, straight to prison he goes. Letting such potential threat run free just because he seems harmless is pretty reasonable of the duke already. Any other shadier and/or "asshole" nobles would have forcibly made the MC work for them, maybe without payment even. Again, dude showed no ability so far that he could even resist local authority. No justice for the weak, even more so in feudal time.

Lastly, for all the "asshole" talk, old duke never did the MC any harm. Worst case, he just won't get his permission to alter local infrastructure for his selfish wish. It's not the end of the world.

Are you saying the likeability of a character to us as manga readers should be affected by whatever time period the work is set in? No offence but all those points you said don't really mean much when I was calling out people who think it is okay to insult others who dislike the duke's attitude. Pretty much the same kind of people just like the one who replied me before you, throwing shade at 'current generation'.

 

[xEternalSoul]

I didn't miss that, but i said it because the point you said felt ridiculous.
Just because someone is giving some amount of issues, you say that it would be better to leave the job and work elsewhere, forgetting that, in many places finding a job is so hard that, people literally accept straight out bullying, exploitation & corruption because they don't want to lose their work as their is high competition and there is always someone else to replace.
So, in majority of Asian countries, Compromise is standard if you want to have a job and earn.

And once again you failed to note that in my comment, I specifically highlight Miyabi as an outlier. He ain't your average joe that needs to accept randos' demands and compromise with them. I'm Asian and compromise isn't a magical thing that you have to enlighten people about, its the same everywhere Asian or Non-Asian. If you really think its ridiculous that an extremely competent outlier is sought-after, I think you need to get a reality check because that's not uncommon for top specialists or management in businesses, much less someone like Miyabi who is literally the one-in-a-million person who can revolutionize their whole world.

 

[Morose]

And once again you failed to note that in my comment, I specifically highlight Miyabi as an outlier. He ain't your average joe that needs to accept randos' demands and compromise with them. I'm Asian and compromise isn't a magical thing that you have to enlighten people about, its the same everywhere Asian or Non-Asian. If you really think its ridiculous that an extremely competent outlier is sought-after, I think you need to get a reality check because that's not uncommon for top specialists or management in businesses, much less someone like Miyabi who is literally the one-in-a-million person who can revolutionize their whole world.

You feel that MC is an outlier, but it isn't actually.

The only thing unique about MC is his Earth knowledge and his Magical capacity.

Other than that, whatever he can do could be achieved by other Crafters.
Its just that, because the situation and societal position of Crafters isn't good in that World, they haven't been able to develop.

And at the end of the day, it's MC who needs their help, not them.

Because even without MC, they would go on with what they had been doing so far, but since MC has given them the idea regarding the concept, all they have to do is invest in people who could recreate even a fraction of what MC suggested and develop it over years to usable condition.

Basically, MC is just their to fast forward the development, he isn't really necessary for them or their society, as the society would develop by itself slowly given time.

Example being, how they had already developed the Wooden Block Braking technology by themselves.
And if we go by our history, Wooden Block Brakes were invented in the 1800's (which became obsolete in the 1890s when rubber tires were invented), around the same time Trains were invented.

But here they had already invented them long before even the concept of trains came up.
So, it wouldn't be surprising that even if MC hadn't meddled, they would have developed a system to transport and move around for long distance by themselves in 50-100 years from now.

Just because one can revolutionize a world, doesn't mean they are highly sought after, because people like that exist everywhere.
Like even Liz is someone like that, as the knowledge she had developed based on her expired father's teaching and self study is quite revolutionary in the magical filed, which is why she got the scholarship offer. But that doesn't mean she is actually required for it, as someone else eventually might have done the same.
Even in real life, we had people like Leonardo da Vinci, who had created various concept for machinery, including designs for flying machine, but all those remained concepts until centuries later. He was also a one-in-a-million person whose ideas could have revolutionized the world and many people at that time knew about it. But except his paintings, majority remained in the dark for years.

At the end of the day, this isn't a story about showcasing how great MC is with his development work, and how all the people around are accepting of him.
It's different, in the sense that, just because you have knowledge and ability that others don't have doesn't make you a worthwhile person, it what others can learn from you that makes you worthwhile.

 

[xEternalSoul]

You feel that MC is an outlier, but it isn't actually.

The only thing unique about MC is his Earth knowledge and his Magical capacity.

Other than that, whatever he can do could be achieved by other Crafters.
Its just that, because the situation and societal position of Crafters isn't good in that World, they haven't been able to develop.

And at the end of the day, it's MC who needs their help, not them.

Because even without MC, they would go on with what they had been doing so far, but since MC has given them the idea regarding the concept, all they have to do is invest in people who could recreate even a fraction of what MC suggested and develop it over years to usable condition.

Basically, MC is just their to fast forward the development, he isn't really necessary for them or their society, as the society would develop by itself slowly given time.

Example being, how they had already developed the Wooden Block Braking technology by themselves.
And if we go by our history, Wooden Block Brakes were invented in the 1800's (which became obsolete in the 1890s when rubber tires were invented), around the same time Trains were invented.

But here they had already invented them long before even the concept of trains came up.
So, it wouldn't be surprising that even if MC hadn't meddled, they would have developed a system to transport and move around for long distance by themselves in 50-100 years from now.

Just because one can revolutionize a world, doesn't mean they are highly sought after, because people like that exist everywhere.
Like even Liz is someone like that, as the knowledge she had developed based on her expired father's teaching and self study is quite revolutionary in the magical filed, which is why she got the scholarship offer. But that doesn't mean she is actually required for it, as someone else eventually might have done the same.
Even in real life, we had people like Leonardo da Vinci, who had created various concept for machinery, including designs for flying machine, but all those remained concepts until centuries later. He was also a one-in-a-million person whose ideas could have revolutionized the world and many people at that time knew about it. But except his paintings, majority remained in the dark for years.

You just said he is unique because of his Earth knowledge and his magical capacity and still claim he isn't an outlier? Are you trying to change definitions because this isn't it. Funny how you can't dispute that positive outliers are sought after so now you tried claiming he isn't one. You are also downplaying tons of people in real life and act like the work of many geniuses in our actual history could have been replaced easily. Just because technology advances and old ones become obsolete doesn't mean old tech is useless. Sure, maybe others would have reached the same revolutionary idea over time but how long would that take? A century? Two centuries? If someone had an amazing technology breakthrough and didn't reveal it, two centuries later the next guy who came up with the idea would be revered too so I don't get your point. You said Leonardo da Vinci was special, but you also mentioned concepts. Are you really comparing conceptual ideas to actual realization of a product? Miyabi made something in their time, it wasn't just a concept that he told people could be possible in future.

Honestly I would have been less hostile if you didn't act like a snob and made that current generation comment. However, I still don't see you making any valid arguments so far. You didn't read my initial comment in full twice and after being corrected you keep shifting goalposts. It's wild that you stated exactly what made Miyabi special and still say he isn't special, then go on to compare other similar revolutionary people in history and make claims that others can do the same. There were great people in our history, instead of teaching compromise, maybe try learning respect.

 

[kaminomikan]

Because i live in a country which has a history of bad road infrastructure for decades, especially in rural areas, and i have personally since childhood never seen a car go higher than 20 kmph on unpitched/unpaved rural road because it can basically damage the vehicle itself, not to mention the horrible shake

won't comment on this. just going to say that a road that can't be traveled at more than 20kmh isn't a road for vehicles to travel.

And Cars can never travel at a sustained max speed, they would have to reduce their speed in a lot of situations,

but here we are talking about magic cars. the same system he is aplying to move the train could be easy applied to the car and would work better.

Also, did you forget what happened the last time MC dig a tunnel through a mountain?
They were attacked by a swarm of Slimes that was inside the cave in the mountain.

and do you think he won't find the same trouble digging underground?

but then he would have to not only help create a proper road to help the car reach maximum speed

Proper roads already exists, they use horse carriages to covert that route, a car can travel those roads at 50kmh with no trouble, which is more than the 8 -19 kmh that a horse carriage can do.

All that by himself, including material gathering and even engineering the system for the Car

he is doing the train all by himself, don't fool yourself thinking that the other guys will help a lot, just seeing the work on the prototype most of the work was done by him. and to make a car, he doesn't need to make it as complicated as a modern one, just like he simplified the train.


The thing is he could have done it by himself for himself (car), but he went with the worst choice (train), and he won't even profit from it, he just got permission to ride it, and that permission can be rescinded at any moment if the noble desired it.

 

[Jiel]

You've seen the extent of what Miyabi can do, right? Saying MC has no realistic chance of going against the Duke is ignoring the fact that Miyabi by himself is enough to completely alter the power dynamic of the world, if he so chooses to.

He's got no chance against the duke because he's constantly under the duke's watch. This is a world of magic and supernatural feat. MC's strength lies mostly on logistics/support, unless he's carefully planning a coup, which wouldn't go unnoticed, there's no stopping the duke from using military force to capture/straight up "disappear" the guy.

Sure, he can affect the world power dynamic in major way, if he's allowed the freedom to act. Now would he be though?

 

[HaikenEdge]

He's got no chance against the duke because he's constantly under the duke's watch. This is a world of magic and supernatural feat. MC's strength lies mostly on logistics/support, unless he's carefully planning a coup, which wouldn't go unnoticed, there's no stopping the duke from using military force to capture/straight up "disappear" the guy.

Sure, he can affect the world power dynamic in major way, if he's allowed the freedom to act. Now would he be though?

He absolutely wouldn't, because that's not who Miyabi is, but he'd also be absolutely be capable of undermining the foundation of the duke's home by tunneling in such a way that it'd collapse into a sinkhole in the ground, killing everybody living in it, before anybody knew what hit them. He's just too much of a good guy to even think it's something he could do.

 

[Jiel]

He absolutely wouldn't, because that's not who Miyabi is, but he'd also be absolutely be capable of undermining the foundation of the duke's home by tunneling in such a way that it'd collapse into a sinkhole in the ground, killing everybody living in it, before anybody knew what hit them. He's just too much of a good guy to even think it's something he could do.

And that's precisely why the duke allow MC to run loose though. He's pretty much under a label "Problematic, but ultimately harmless. Try putting him to good use, but have countermeasure ready".

I'm gonna bet the duke next move will be to get someone swearing allegiance to him/the country to join the MC friend group. So that any suspicious action will be discouraged and/or reported back to him.

 

[Kalamel]

Duke may have valid concerns but there's no doubt that he is being an asshole throughout the manga. Being right and being an asshole isn't mutually exclusive.

It's true that being right and being an asshole isn't mutually exclusive. But is him an asshole? I couldn't recall what he did that justify that assessment.

To support my disagreement, I had quickly looked to chapter which he appeared.

Ch12. He repeatedly rejected Miyabi designs as not original.
Ch14. He asked his team to prove their worth in escort job. In ch15, he explained that Redcliff ask to give the lead to unproven Liz.
Ch15. He reprimanded maid for overstepping her boundaries.
Ch16. He asked for bg check, which explained in ch24.
Ch24. He said he want to know source of his power.
Ch32. The train proposal. He surprised Miyabi with scale of project, didn't ask for his input until Miyabi spoke, and demand short prototype-making period.
Then this chapter.

I admit that in all of these chapter, he appears to be a cold, pragmatic aristocrat who prioritize meritocracy above all. But I didn't find him being rude at all. All that he did was explained reasonably. His rejection of design or asking for proof as a paying customer are in his right. His role as a governing duke means boundaries, internal intelligence, fiscal discipline and stakeholders inputs are parts of his official duty. And we're quite lucky to have reasons clearly explained in almost all actions.

Asshole is a subjective definition, which could be varied from person to person. But imo, using his legitimate reasons to reject or demand from mc is not necessary an act of an asshole. If I may borrow your wording, being dislikable and being an asshole isn't mutually exclusive.

 

[xEternalSoul]

It's true that being right and being an asshole isn't mutually exclusive. But is him an asshole? I couldn't recall what he did that justify that assessment.

To support my disagreement, I had quickly looked to chapter which he appeared.

Ch12. He repeatedly rejected Miyabi designs as not original.
Ch14. He asked his team to prove their worth in escort job. In ch15, he explained that Redcliff ask to give the lead to unproven Liz.
Ch15. He reprimanded maid for overstepping her boundaries.
Ch16. He asked for bg check, which explained in ch24.
Ch24. He said he want to know source of his power.
Ch32. The train proposal. He surprised Miyabi with scale of project, didn't ask for his input until Miyabi spoke, and demand short prototype-making period.
Then this chapter.

I admit that in all of these chapter, he appears to be a cold, pragmatic aristocrat who prioritize meritocracy above all. But I didn't find him being rude at all. All that he did was explained reasonably. His rejection of design or asking for proof as a paying customer are in his right. His role as a governing duke means boundaries, internal intelligence, fiscal discipline and stakeholders inputs are parts of his official duty. And we're quite lucky to have reasons clearly explained in almost all actions.

Asshole is a subjective definition, which could be varied from person to person. But imo, using his legitimate reasons to reject or demand from mc is not necessary an act of an asshole. If I may borrow your wording, being dislikable and being an asshole isn't mutually exclusive.

Fair enough, I can agree that him being an asshole is subjective. But then that brings it back to the initial point, is it okay to throw insults at people who dislike the Duke?

 

[Mageos]

Thank you for the great TL!

 

[Kalamel]

Fair enough, I can agree that him being an asshole is subjective. But then that brings it back to the initial point, is it okay to throw insults at people who dislike the Duke?

I think this is a very subjective topic, so everything I'm writing is from my opinion.

Basically, you're asking "is it acceptable to verbally attack people because of their opinion?"

My useless answer would be, it's depends on the opinion. The default answer would be no, but some clear exceptions exist.

You wouldn't blame people who calls murderer evil, or insult adulterer. At the mouth of rabbit hole, you might even ask, is it okay to insult those who insult other people? I'll stay clear of that and just state my opinion in this thread.

I dislike people who use fallacies, or generally being unreasonable. So far, I think somebody here are deserve some harsh words for theirs unreasonable opinions and reasoning. As I didn't see the duke as unreasonable, I saw people who claimed that the duke is stupid,illogical or l dumb as those who is unreasonable themselves. Honestly, some comments made me thought, do you read too many cultivation manhau and adopt mc is the center of the universe mindset? Many comments seems to blame the duke for disagree with mc, because he is mc. It's unspeakable frustrating to me to see what, imo, is hating people because they use reasons against the mc.

Though I have some reservations, I do wish for them to clarify, if not correct their thought process. I have some community explicitly defending fallacies as a proper reaoning, rendering public discord unsolvable.

 

[xEternalSoul]

I think this is a very subjective topic, so everything I'm writing is from my opinion.

Basically, you're asking "is it acceptable to verbally attack people because of their opinion?"

My useless answer would be, it's depends on the opinion. The default answer would be no, but some clear exceptions exist.

You wouldn't blame people who calls murderer evil, or insult adulterer. At the mouth of rabbit hole, you might even ask, is it okay to insult those who insult other people? I'll stay clear of that and just state my opinion in this thread.

I dislike people who use fallacies, or generally being unreasonable. So far, I think somebody here are deserve some harsh words for theirs unreasonable opinions and reasoning. As I didn't see the duke as unreasonable, I saw people who claimed that the duke is stupid,illogical or l dumb as those who is unreasonable themselves. Honestly, some comments made me thought, do you read too many cultivation manhau and adopt mc is the center of the universe mindset? Many comments seems to blame the duke for disagree with mc, because he is mc. It's unspeakable frustrating to me to see what, imo, is hating people because they use reasons against the mc.

Though I have some reservations, I do wish for them to clarify, if not correct their thought process. I have some community explicitly defending fallacies as a proper reaoning, rendering public discord unsolvable.

To me this is just being irresponsible and trying to cover your ass. You yourself made the claim that seeing the character as an asshole is subjective but your current comment is basically "they don't agree with my opinion of the character therefore they are wrong". I don't know if you can see the hypocrisy in your comment. I was willing to accept your previous opinion that the Duke's impression differs across different readers but now that you think those people were right to throw shade at others, I don't think we can agree on anything and I don't think we have anything further to discuss.

 

[Kalamel]

I was willing to accept your previous opinion that the Duke's impression differs across different readers but now that you think those people were right to throw shade at others, I don't think we can agree on anything and I don't think we have anything further to discuss.

I thought we won't reach common agreement on the matter, yet I'm still surprised by how sudden you left. That's fine, I don't think leaving an argument is a bad thing or yielding.

That said, I'm still entitled to defend my position.

To me this is just being irresponsible and trying to cover your ass. You yourself made the claim that seeing the character as an asshole is subjective but your current comment is basically "they don't agree with my opinion of the character therefore they are wrong". I don't know if you can see the hypocrisy in your comment.

You just misread me. I don't care about what they think of the character. What justify insults for me is in how they arrived at their conclusion. If they just hate his guts, or found him annoyingly demanding, that's fine by me. But saying he is unreasonable when I found nothing of sorts is either making me doubt myself, or attack the concept of reasoning itself. And I would apply this everywhere, in praise or in hate, in fiction or reality discussion.

I think you won't accept this anymore. It seems to me that you're in the camp of no insulting except when insulted, which is an admirable position in itself.