How Do You Feel About "NTR"?

[wandere]

So I have been looking through mangadex chapter threads for a while now, and I wanted to ask: What is NTR to you? What does that mean to you? Is it something with a strict definition or something that you know when you see it? I ask this because I'm a bit confused by what some commenters consider NTR; In some cases it feels like "cheating" would be a better term, or in other cases, I'm not seeing "NTR", I'm just straight up seeing sexual assault. Sometimes, it also just...has no signs of it in my eyes. So I'm kind of interested in hearing people's takes, and beyond that how they feel in general about it.

For me personally, I am not a fan of NTR. However I think NTR works best when it's goofy, when it's dumb; and a lot of NTR is not goofy or dumb because there is some sort of need, whether for the fantasy or whatever, to provide some level of "seriousness" or "realism". NTR to me is an extremely unrealistic scenario; I'm sure there might be a person or two who directly knows someone who has experienced it, but NTR to me is very much about the taking of agency away from whoever is getting "stolen" (usually a woman), if not on a narrative level than on a thematic level. If they were doing this of their own will, it would just be cheating. If they were not doing it of their own will, it would be nonconsensual. NTR feels like it straddles this line between cheating and being nonconsensual by creating some sort of magnetic force that keeps the plot moving despite all reason, which could be fantastical in nature like magic or sci-fi technology, or could just be "they do sex real good" where the story or scenario basically tells you "Welp, nothing could have been done. That's just how it works." The feelings of the person being stolen don't matter because they have, somehow, been overwritten. That said, this definitely varies; I'm talking more about stuff that's guy-targeted, I feel like stuff written by women tends to have a different feel. Anyway, waiting for your responses.

 

[Lowfyie]

normally I see NTR being a partner willingly cheating on the other, if it wasnt that then thatd just be rape which you shouldn't count as cheating since its against the person's will, but I think in manga terms it'd still be NTR since its cucking the person's partner

 

[hazzack]

normally I see NTR being a partner willingly cheating on the other, if it wasnt that then thatd just be rape which you shouldn't count as cheating since its against the person's will, but I think in manga terms it'd still be NTR since its cucking the person's partner

Nah that just plain cheating.
NTR is when the other party (usually a girl, sometimes multiple) is made into liking the NTRee and into abandoning the NTRd, which may include rape, blackmail, emotional manipulation, and all the other horibble things. Of course there's also vanilla NTR which doesnt include those degrading acts.


Also NTR work best when told from NTRman perspective, but that just the horrible person in me speaking

 

[Manko-sensei]

Well, this is one of those times people should check the dictionary first, since netoru and netorare are slightly different despite being the same verb. Netoru is when the protagonist steals others' lovers, netorare (passive form) is about the protagonist being the victim of it. For some reason the latter is more popular in more places than just Japan, but since it's much preferred there it's harder to find netoru (despite having better stories). Since hentai/boderline (and pornography in general) is mainly aimed to men and the average Japanese Adult Videos are about forcing someone into sex, the narrative resources are basically rape and blackmail. When they want to gather female audience they put it in a TV drama (like all those shows of Latin America) and it's either vanilla or just a little spicy if there's a difference on social class.
For manga, I basically stick to netoru/netorare in yuri since there's more than just sex or I read parodies (everything gets better with humour).

 

[wandere]

Nah that just plain cheating.
NTR is when the other party (usually a girl, sometimes multiple) is made into liking the NTRee and into abandoning the NTRd, which may include rape, blackmail, emotional manipulation, and all the other horibble things. Of course there's also vanilla NTR which doesnt include those degrading acts.


Also NTR work best when told from NTRman perspective, but that just the horrible person in me speaking

I believe that's "Netori" or as the prior person said, netoru (I wonder if netori and netoru are just the same word for different subjects or something along those lines?) which is when the protagonist is the one doing the "taking", and then there's "neteorase", which according to wikitionary is "A genre of sharing or cuckoldry pornography where a protagonist's love interest has sex with others, which the protagonist enjoys, actively encourages or even causes." I've never been a fan of the word because it's a bit overtly broad; you could have what we in the West call cuckoldry, or you could have something more akin to swinging or an open relationship, which is wayyyyy different although some people might conflate them. In general, NTR is a very broad, vague term that people might not want to touch past a certain point and maybe that's what causes some of the confusion. To be honest, I also think netori hits a lot less awful with me than netorare. It provides a lot more space to provide nuance to the one doing the taking where otherwise you would need to spend a lot of time on the "NTRee" and in possibly depicting them in a sympathetic light ensure that the one doing the stealing is pure evil. When it comes down to it I'm still not going to be a fan if the ntr man pov has them doing the exact same heinous stuff they would have done if they weren't the protagonist, but sometimes you get something interesting; oftentimes less so in more of a shonen or seinen type setup but shojo or josei. I would suggest trying it sometime, referring more to hetero romance than BL because I'm not into Yaoi; it can be refreshing and for people who dislike "weak-willed mcs" just read josei but put yourself in the shoes of the male lead.

normally I see NTR being a partner willingly cheating on the other, if it wasnt that then thatd just be rape which you shouldn't count as cheating since its against the person's will, but I think in manga terms it'd still be NTR since its cucking the person's partner

That's what kind of interests me: "In manga terms", and the use specifically of "cucking" in conjunction that I see a lot. When people say "cuck", it has definitely expanded beyond the definiton as a kink. When someone says it (and I'm speaking specifically from a male pov), it feels like it is some sort of generalized humiliation for "losing the girl". It doesn't matter if the protagonist has a romantic interest in them; it doesn't matter if the time period between the protagonist finding out and them leaving is extremely short, it doesn't matter if it barely bothers the protagonist if at all. It's just humiliating. It's worthy of enacting revenge even, or if that already was on the table revenge even more severe. And that could go for the narrative, that could go for the readers, or it could be both.
I almost feel like NTR within the anime/manga community is moreso the manifestation of the fear/anxiety of the reader/watcher; different from person to person and what they can tolerate, what their worldview is, what their beliefs are. Maybe people say "I don't like NTR" when they more specifically mean "I want the protagonist to end up with [female lead]", or "I prefer if the love interest has never interacted with a character besides the main character romantically, sexually, etc.", or "I feel uncomfortable seeing a female character I like doing [some form of sex act, either implied or directly shown, potentially with the protagonist as the singular exception]". We have kind of moved past the word as an actual categorization and more as a warning.

 

[master-34]

A lot of stuff that is tag as Netorare that is from the pov of the one getting stolen and the rapist guy the one that is getting ntred sometimes he does not even shows up in the story at all. Their is also a work thats taged as Netorare were 2 women that are in a relationship with each rape's and insults a guy because they thought he was into one of them so they raped and insults him and the story ends with the two women talking about making the guy a sex friend only to find him talking to a other woman. Thats how broad Netorare has become

 

[wandere]

A lot of stuff that is tag as Netorare that is from the pov of the one getting stolen and the rapist guy the one that is getting ntred sometimes he does not even shows up in the story at all. Their is also a work thats taged as Netorare were 2 women that are in a relationship with each rape's and insults a guy because they thought he was into one of them so they raped and insults him and the story ends with the two women talking about making the guy a sex friend only to find him talking to a other woman. Thats how broad Netorare has become

Yeah I wouldn't consider those ntr, like the "neglected housewife whose husband is never home cheats on him" there's a very specific sort of aspect to netorare I believe where the person on the receiving end has to know that it's happening and has to get the "I love you but they're so good at sex" scene/scenes plus possibly some taunting from the one stealing. For the second one...do we even count emotional cheating or just seeing the "love interest" dating someone else as ntr? I was going to say most people don't really think of emotional cheating in relation to at least manga (maybe more on the shojo/josei end?) but the latter is definitely considered "ntr" by some.

Maybe people say "I don't like NTR" when they more specifically mean "I want the protagonist to end up with [female lead]", or "I prefer if the love interest has never interacted with a character besides the main character romantically, sexually, etc.", or "I feel uncomfortable seeing a female character I like doing [some form of sex act, either implied or directly shown, potentially with the protagonist as the singular exception]".

Which is what I was kind of thinking of yesterday: sometimes ntr is just "something involving a romantic/sexual relationship happened that I don't like"

 

[ankiwi]

It's an oversaturated genre similar to isekai. Too many artists using the same story structure. A lot of the time the work wouldn't be much different it wasn't NTR and just degradation. In fact it's just a waste of pages to include the NTR sometimes. Like how some isekai would just work as fantasy I remember reading one where it was 20 pages of NTR and like 10 pages of the act . To me the genre has become the go to for artists who can't make a story for shit and rely on that story structure. Similar to isekai but even worse.

 

[wandere]

It's an oversaturated genre similar to isekai. Too many artists using the same story structure. A lot of the time the work wouldn't be much different it wasn't NTR and just degradation. In fact it's just a waste of pages to include the NTR sometimes. I remember reading one where it was 20 pages of NTR and like 10 pages of my actLike how some isekai would just work as fantasy. To me the genre has become the go to for artists who can't make a story for shit and rely on that story structure. Similar to isekai but even worse.

There is probably a lot of money in NTR; cuckoldry is a bit of a taboo kink in the sense that it is considered embarrassing to have, and on top of that a lot of people with those fantasies probably don't have a partner they could do it with or who would be willing to do it with them. We see this in other niche interests as well, like the lucrative nature of furry art for example. In that way yeah I'd say ntr is oftentimes a cash grab; I see people say things like "Japan is just fucked up in the head" and yeah Japan definitely has broad societal problems but I don't think this is one of them. Isekai is a good comparison because the generic webnovel to light novel to manga to anime pipeline is 100% a thing.

 

[sanctuary]

Damaged people.

 

[Manko-sensei]

So the point of this post altogether was showing indignation or something else? I couldn't help but frowing at how specifically an isekai got you engrossed with it.

 

[athayanezant]

No Sensei, this thread just made me realized one thing. We had the NTR guru all this time inside the sity.
@hazzack hello, guru.

 

[wandere]

So the point of this post altogether was showing indignation or something else? I couldn't help but frowing at how specifically an isekai got you engrossed with it?

Ah, no you misunderstood. This isn't specifically connected to isekai, and my initial post in the forums about this isn't aligned with when I began to think about it or if it is something I'm obsessed over. If I could say what I'm interested in, we would have to go past the scope of isekai, past anime and manga, and more into how people interact with media in general.
As I said in the post (although tbf I lightly reread it so this will be a rewording), a lot of media for the purpose of reaching as much of their target audience as possible will include things to hook the audience, utilizing certain tactics or elements. This varies based on who that target is. If we're talking about web and light novels for example, one thing I have noticed over and over is that there is a pattern of scenarios and themes used to evoke feelings from the reader; these being things such as being left for dead, betrayal by a partner, being "the weakest [whatever]", etc. followed by the catharsis of direct or indirect revenge in most cases, although this is not the only pattern.
I would say the main goal is to be shocking and to keep you reading for as long as possible so you can eventually reach that catharsis. There are any number of mediums where there are similar structures, like the Rent A Girlfriend stuff recently. Sometimes, they might want to evoke your sense of disgust or the feeling that what you are reading is taboo, which would be more often seen in hentai but you could also see in stebpsibling-type romance manga. In the end the goal is to make you angry or frustrated, to the point that you keep turning the page until you get to the end. Because in the absence of say like, good writing, or good art direction where relevant, people get bored and leave, meanwhile you can just slap on "I was betrayed and now I have to get revenge" and that will get a good amount of people reading for at least a while.
Ok so anyway how does that bring us back to NTR? In general I just was curious what people viewed as NTR and how it made them feel, partially because it felt like their definition constrasted from my definition, but also because it was one of the things that I was pretty certain fell under "trope/element used to hook readers" and on some level I think I wanted to understand if just as much as there were people who strictly avoided the idea that ntr could even exist if there were people who seeing it (or other things hat they might consider ntr but I don't) that spurs them on instead. I hope this is somewhat coherent; I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

 

[hazzack]

No Sensei, this thread just made me realized one thing. We had the NTR guru all this time inside the sity.
@hazzack hello, guru.

it's just hard to say you like the thing people actively bashing on it.

 

[wandere]

So the point of this post altogether was showing indignation or something else? I couldn't help but frowing at how specifically an isekai got you engrossed with it.

Ok now that my brain is braining a bit more what I'm interested in is patterns; "this feels like it was made with a template" type stuff, and web/light novels tend to have a lot of patterns and in turn many web/light novels are isekai.

 

[wandere]

it's just hard to say you like the thing people actively bashing on it.

I definitely respect someone who is open and unapologetic about their likes more than someone who is extremely vocal about disliking something while not grasping what that thing actually is. The former requires a lot more introspection and the latter is much more of a knee-jerk reaction. It does feel like the opinions of people who are sincerely interested in something unpopular tend to get drowned out to the point that no one talks about it outside of the framing of "I hate this and anyone who likes this is bad"

 

[athayanezant]

it's just hard to say you like the thing people actively bashing on it.

Bashing on it or not, I don't really care. Everyone has their own preferences and I thought we all are mature enough to choose whatever we read, for me personally, I wouldn't feel disturbed if I bump into someone who said they like to read NTR related stuff, but, if they also practice it in real life, now that's a very different story. Uh.. Maybe like this, if they try to NTR my partner, well, as a yandere, yknow exactly what would I do to them, right? I mean... To both of them.

 

[Manko-sensei]

Ok now that my brain is braining a bit more what I'm interested in is patterns; "this feels like it was made with a template" type stuff, and web/light novels tend to have a lot of patterns and in turn many web/light novels are isekai.

Patterns? Quite simple:

• Being mainly means being forceful and having a big dick, so even if I'm bad at words everyone will fall instantly for me.
• My partner is my wallet but worthless otherwise, so I need someone to fill that void.
• Oh, my partners/friends managed to kick me out and even the one I loved has turned me away.
• Your good-for-nothing teenager who never confessed has to see their crush going out with someone else.
• This pure character is going to be wrecked by several people who treat them like rubbish.
• Oh no, my lover is secretly being blackmailed and turned into a human pet!

You get the gist, you can add more variations but it's essentially the same story over and over. Some people are just masochists.

 

[athayanezant]

Woah! The world of NTR are quite wide apparently.. Damnn!

 

[jecroisenlasuperioritedubel]

Bashing on it or not, I don't really care. Everyone has their own preferences and I thought we all are mature enough to choose whatever we read, for me personally, I wouldn't feel disturbed if I bump into someone who said they like to read NTR related stuff, but, if they also practice it in real life, now that's a very different story. Uh.. Maybe like this, if they try to NTR my partner, well, as a yandere, yknow exactly what would I do to them, right? I mean... To both of them.

What about „ netorare „ to ſome-one You don’t know but You’re invited to facilitate It ?