Mada Kimi wo Miageteru - Ch. 6 - We're Friends, Right?

[UdenEmpati]

IFor "cuck vibes" do you mean you're afraid the story's going to go a specific way, or it reminds you of certain other works, or...?

I would bet money it's because that guy can't handle that Tsubaki isn't a virgin who waited for Otakei into adulthood like she was promised to him, and that he's saying Otakei is being cucked by virtue of not being Tsubaki's first and only partner.

 

[phorx]

I’m just gonna say it. I’m glad he’s dead.

Ok given the reactions I should have explained why I said that.

Mainly it’s just that I’m relieved that there isn’t a possibility of her husband coming back and undoing any progress they might make in the future.

I don’t think them getting together is a done deal by a long shot. FMC is a mess tbh… no wedding ring for her job to seem available but she wears it otherwise. To me at least it says she’s not looking for a new guy for a long time. On the other side we have the MC who’s clearly smitten but is at least trying to be respectful of her marriage.

It’s not drawn like it, but maybe this is a story more about healing from trauma than romance… until maybe at the very end?

 

[UdenEmpati]

Ok given the reactions I should have explained why I said that.

Mainly it’s just that I’m relieved that there isn’t a possibility of her husband coming back and undoing any progress they might make in the future.

I don’t think them getting together is a done deal by a long shot. FMC is a mess tbh… no wedding ring for her job to seem available but she wears it otherwise. To me at least it says she’s not looking for a new guy for a long time. On the other side we have the MC who’s clearly smitten but is at least trying to be respectful of her marriage.

It’s not drawn like it, but maybe this is a story more about healing from trauma than romance… until maybe at the very end?

I actually hope it at least focuses a lot more on healing and not strictly romance. Both of them have a lot of stuff they need to deal with independently, and while I think it'd be a good thing if they come to learn to lean on one another when needed and to support each other, it would be smarter for them to get their own affairs in order and get to a better place mentally and emotionally before trying to make a relationship work between them.

About her wedding ring thing, though - given where she works, wearing the ring would "ruin the fantasy" of the character/role she's trying to sell to customers. Not wearing the ring is basically just another part of her uniform, than anything else, and it could easily be she was asked to take it off during her shift by her manager(s).
Her wearing it off-the-clock isn't necessarily her trying to put up a wall with Otakei, but could just be an indicator that she's still mourning her late husband, and/or showing respect to his memory.

 

[Nanidude]

I mean, just a reminder: Offering prayers and tending to the family grave has a different significance, culturally, between Japan and the English-speaking world. There, it's an expected and normal display of respect to the family she married into, and doesn't specifically imply that she's still romantically devoted to the dead guy.

I think it's pretty common for people to be nervous when dating a widow(er) that they'll always be "competing with a ghost" for that person's love, even though it (almost) never works like that. Definitely the kind of thing that should be talked through before you start dating.

For "cuck vibes" do you mean you're afraid the story's going to go a specific way, or it reminds you of certain other works, or...?

By the cuck vibes I mean is exactly what you said, the thought about competing with a "GHOST". Now we dont know anything about her deceased husband, but if turns out she still feels attracted and is feeling grief, then I would be dissapointed. See if it was some one-off thing like her ex was mentioned once in the story and then forgot about, I would be fine with it. but clearly her husband is a major plot point in the story when the author is setting up MMC x FMC in the future, its giving off cuckery. Even the author is some cuck shit with the dream at the beginning of the chapter

 

[Nanidude]

Ok given the reactions I should have explained why I said that.

Mainly it’s just that I’m relieved that there isn’t a possibility of her husband coming back and undoing any progress they might make in the future.

I don’t think them getting together is a done deal by a long shot. FMC is a mess tbh… no wedding ring for her job to seem available but she wears it otherwise. To me at least it says she’s not looking for a new guy for a long time. On the other side we have the MC who’s clearly smitten but is at least trying to be respectful of her marriage.

It’s not drawn like it, but maybe this is a story more about healing from trauma than romance… until maybe at the very end?

I hope not that would just be false advertising, its tagged as romance across numerous sites and is clearly playing off the otaku x gyaru trope. But i think it would be fine if mmc romances someone else other than gyaru.

 

[UdenEmpati]

By the cuck vibes I mean is exactly what you said, the thought about competing with a "GHOST". Now we dont know anything about her deceased husband, but if turns out she still feels attracted and is feeling grief, then I would be dissapointed. See if it was some one-off thing like her ex was mentioned once in the story and then forgot about, I would be fine with it. but clearly her husband is a major plot point in the story when the author is setting up MMC x FMC in the future, its giving off cuckery.

I'm not sure you know what "cuck" means if this is how you're choosing to use it.

Like, it really feels like you just want to make Tsubaki some trophy that Otakei is entitled to. She's her own person, has her own life, had her own relationships and experiences and she's allowed to just try to sort through what would be a real loss in her life, ostensibly, without needing to just drop the memory of a person she was married to completely because "oh look the otaku I knew in high school is in front of me now, better throw myself at him and forget I'm a person with agency".

Honestly. Why are you so hung up on Tsubaki having had a life outside of her interactions with Otakei? It's frankly suspicious at just how pressed you are about the notion, because I have to wonder if you'd be this outraged if it had been Otakei who was widowed and Tsubaki who came into his life single and looking to reconnect.
Would you be just as upset if Otakei was taking time to grieve a dead wife instead of simply jumping into bed with her?

 

[grumbles]

Ok given the reactions I should have explained why I said that.

Mainly it’s just that I’m relieved that there isn’t a possibility of her husband coming back and undoing any progress they might make in the future.

I don’t think them getting together is a done deal by a long shot. FMC is a mess tbh… no wedding ring for her job to seem available but she wears it otherwise. To me at least it says she’s not looking for a new guy for a long time. On the other side we have the MC who’s clearly smitten but is at least trying to be respectful of her marriage.

It’s not drawn like it, but maybe this is a story more about healing from trauma than romance… until maybe at the very end?

I will share a story of a coworker I had, she wore a ring on her left hand to get rid of gross men who would hit on her because they understand the ring more than the meaning of "No".

She was very much not married. People do things for reasons.

 

[Nanidude]

I'm not sure you know what "cuck" means if this is how you're choosing to use it.

Like, it really feels like you just want to make Tsubaki some trophy that Otakei is entitled to. She's her own person, has her own life, had her own relationships and experiences and she's allowed to just try to sort through what would be a real loss in her life, ostensibly, without needing to just drop the memory of a person she was married to completely because "oh look the otaku I knew in high school is in front of me now, better throw myself at him and forget I'm a person with agency".

Honestly. Why are you so hung up on Tsubaki having had a life outside of her interactions with Otakei? It's frankly suspicious at just how pressed you are about the notion, because I have to wonder if you'd be this outraged if it had been Otakei who was widowed and Tsubaki who came into his life single and looking to reconnect.
Would you be just as upset if Otakei was taking time to grieve a dead wife instead of simply jumping into bed with her?

what could you possibly think what a cuck is? it has very broad definitions i think my use of it is correct in this matter. My issue is with the authors writing, hes marketing this series as gyaru x otaku and knowing these two will possibly be together and then gives her a deceased husband whos a major plot point btw and makes her questionably "grieve" or "mourn" him (which we are still unsure but clearly she still has some kind of attachment to him), if this attachment is lingering romantic feelings then it would be even further in cuck territory knowing full well these 2 most likely would be together, and to top it all off with the beginning of this chapter with the dream (author is literally playing into the cuckery lmao). Youre telling me that doesnt give cuck vibes? i just hope as the story progresses that im wrong and its just a misunderstanding and hopefully we get more knowledge from the sister next chapter but seeing how its still really early into chapters the author will probably beat around the bush

 

[NotSomeone]

Acting like stories can't be used to examine and consider how we view ourselves and the people & world around us feels like a profound misunderstanding of the purpose of storytelling.

And why do you see it as Otakei being Tsubaki's "second choice"? They drifted apart after high school and weren't in one another's lives until the events that began this actual manga. Where does that make him her "second choice" in any of this?

The author has a setup they're going for, and it involves Otakei overcoming his personal character challenges, and someone who cheered for him back in high school has shown up at a pivotal moment in his life when he's about to have another go at his making his passion a reality.
You say he "can't get a win", and yet he's literally on his way to re-debut his manga work. A rather common storywriting refrain is character who is down-and-out and at the bottom of the narrative pit, and now has to claw their way out to get the wins they didn't have before. Acting like it's suddenly the worst thing here, while relating directly to the FL having had a prior relationship, feels very suspicious, given how much that sentiment rhymes with rather misogynistic rhetoric.
Tsubaki had a direct hand in encouraging him to do so. He's not overcome every obstacle, but it's also, like, the start of the story still, so there's gonna be more to come for him to work through. All of his "wins" are in the future tense, and I would expect that includes a deeper relationship with Tsubaki.

And hell, I'll ask you the inverse: would you be this bent out of shape if Otakei were the one who was widowed, and Tsubaki was single and re-entering his life? It's the same disparity, just in the other direction, so the same inequality in their lived experience should be just as objectionable, right?

You're in the Mangadex comment section, most people here are looking for instant gratification and power fantasies.

 

[UdenEmpati]

what could you possibly think what a cuck is? it has very broad definitions i think my use of it is correct in this matter. My issue is with the authors writing, hes marketing this series as gyaru x otaku and knowing these two will possibly be together and then gives her a deceased husband whos a major plot point btw and makes her questionably "grieve" or "mourn" him (which we are still unsure but clearly she still has some kind of attachment to him), if this attachment is lingering romantic feelings then it would be even further in cuck territory knowing full well these 2 most likely would be together, and to top it all off with the beginning of this chapter with the dream (author is literally playing into the cuckery lmao). Youre telling me that doesnt give cuck vibes? i just hope as the story progresses that im wrong and its just a misunderstanding and hopefully we get more knowledge from the sister next chapter but seeing how its still really early into chapters the author will probably beat around the bush

Like I said - Tsubaki is her own character, and she's allowed her own story arc, which would include grieving and moving past her deceased husband.

Are you saying she's not allowed to have that? Because that doesn't preclude her having a romantic arc with Otakei. They're not mutually exclusive story beats. Otakei also has his own character narrative he's grappling with in restarting his manga career.

They're both more than allowed to do these things independent of figuring out their relationship to one another.

I honestly am of the opinion this might just not be the story for you, if you find these concepts hard to swallow. And the fact you're this upset over the audacity of the author giving Tsubaki a complex backstory that demands a nuanced look at how relationships can grow, change, and diminish over time reinforces that.

 

[UdenEmpati]

You're in the Mangadex comment section, most people here are looking for instant gratification and power fantasies.

Doesn't mean these aren't important conversations to have for the sake of others who might be reading through.

 

[grumbles]

what could you possibly think what a cuck is? it has very broad definitions i think my use of it is correct in this matter. My issue is with the authors writing, hes marketing this series as gyaru x otaku and knowing these two will possibly be together and then gives her a deceased husband whos a major plot point btw and makes her questionably "grieve" or "mourn" him (which we are still unsure but clearly she still has some kind of attachment to him), if this attachment is lingering romantic feelings then it would be even further in cuck territory knowing full well these 2 most likely would be together, and to top it all off with the beginning of this chapter with the dream (author is literally playing into the cuckery lmao). Youre telling me that doesnt give cuck vibes? i just hope as the story progresses that im wrong and its just a misunderstanding and hopefully we get more knowledge from the sister next chapter but seeing how its still really early into chapters the author will probably beat around the bush

A genuine question. Are you a moron?

Have you never experienced love or a relationship? Things happen all the time in real life and labeling things as cuck makes me assume you have never touched a woman.

 

[BackBrainKick]

Wait, is Tsubaki in college or something? Why else would she be studying for?

Nevermind. I realized it was a flashback and not a very obvious one.

 

[essensue]

Like I said - Tsubaki is her own character, and she's allowed her own story arc, which would include grieving and moving past her deceased husband.

Are you saying she's not allowed to have that? Because that doesn't preclude her having a romantic arc with Otakei. They're not mutually exclusive story beats. Otakei also has his own character narrative he's grappling with in restarting his manga career.

They're both more than allowed to do these things independent of figuring out their relationship to one another.

I honestly am of the opinion this might just not be the story for you, if you find these concepts hard to swallow. And the fact you're this upset over the audacity of the author giving Tsubaki a complex backstory that demands a nuanced look at how relationships can grow, change, and diminish over time reinforces that.

A genuine question. Are you a moron?

Have you never experienced love or a relationship? Things happen all the time in real life and labeling things as cuck makes me assume you have never touched a woman.

In their defense, it's not like they're hallucinating - the author is definitely using unaswered questions to create a sense of uncertainty and unease in the protagonist and, by extension, the reader. I can almost see how somebody who feels "once-bitten" by a Rent-a-Girlfriend or something might see a questionably-available love interest and Threatening Male Presence as "cuck"-coded. The imagined husband in the dream was obviously intended to be threatening to Otakei, because he's not presented as NTR Man as might typically befit a gal, but a successful adult man in a suit - jabbing right at Otakei's deepest insecurities at the moment. While it's obviously not literally cuck shit/NTR, playing with the idea that "you might never be enough for her" is a distillation of a certain kind of fear central to that experience, I think.

I do disagree with their assessment, because we see that the dream was part of (or motivation towards) coming to terms with the fact that he just might love her, rather than just a treat for the masochists.

But if this reader is like "this makes me uncomfortable," then yeah, I think it's trying to do that... but only a little. If it makes you very uncomfortable and that's not what you come to romance manga for, then UdenEmpati's right and maybe one of the other, teen-focused Otaku x Gal stories is more appropriate.

It's interesting how the people who are really triggered by this seem to be ones that are focused on the romance and have very specific expectations about the story playing out in a typical fashion. Personally, I'm more interested in the rest of each character's story, like what kind of evidently heavy shit happened with her husband, and how dude's manga's gonna do. With how the series has approached things more maturely and showed that the important part of their artist-and-muse/cheerleader relationship doesn't rely on romance to work, I'd already still be satisfied by an ending where they don't wind up together but were simply important parts of each others' lives for a while.

I'm kinda surprised the other complainers are still sticking with it six chapters in, honestly. This seems like it would be a really boring hate-read.

 

[parasquerl]

idk man im getting cuck vibes from this, I think I wouldve preferred if she wasnt MARRIED prior. Please tell me would you be okay with your girlfriend mourning her ex after he died? I wouldnt be okay with that.

I mean, I try not to date psychopaths, so of course I'd be okay with that. Humans mourn their dead loved ones, it's a whole thing.

My girlfriend might also really love her dad, and maybe she said she'd marry him when she was three years old. Maybe she had the most intense crush on some terrible K-pop star when she was twelve. Who cares? Emotional connections and life experience are what make a person interesting.

 

[UdenEmpati]

In their defense, it's not like they're hallucinating - the author is definitely using unaswered questions to create a sense of uncertainty and unease in the protagonist and, by extension, the reader. I can almost see how somebody who feels "once-bitten" by a Rent-a-Girlfriend or something might see a questionably-available love interest and Threatening Male Presence as "cuck"-coded. The imagined husband in the dream was obviously intended to be threatening to Otakei, because he's not presented as NTR Man as might typically befit a gal, but a successful adult man in a suit - jabbing right at Otakei's deepest insecurities at the moment. While it's obviously not literally cuck shit/NTR, playing with the idea that "you might never be enough for her" is a distillation of a certain kind of fear central to that experience, I think.

I do disagree with their assessment, because we see that the dream was part of (or motivation towards) coming to terms with the fact that he just might love her, rather than just a treat for the masochists.

But if this reader is like "this makes me uncomfortable," then yeah, I think it's trying to do that... but only a little. If it makes you very uncomfortable and that's not what you come to romance manga for, then UdenEmpati's right and maybe one of the other, teen-focused Otaku x Gal stories is more appropriate.

It's interesting how the people who are really triggered by this seem to be ones that are focused on the romance and have very specific expectations about the story playing out in a typical fashion. Personally, I'm more interested in the rest of each character's story, like what kind of evidently heavy shit happened with her husband, and how dude's manga's gonna do. With how the series has approached things more maturely and showed that the important part of their artist-and-muse/cheerleader relationship doesn't rely on romance to work, I'd already still be satisfied by an ending where they don't wind up together but were simply important parts of each others' lives for a while.

I'm kinda surprised the other complainers are still sticking with it six chapters in, honestly. This seems like it would be a really boring hate-read.

It's because every comment & complaint that falls along the lines of "Tsubaki had someone in her life before Otakei and that makes me upset" comes across as almost in lockstep with the sort of rhetoric you'd hear from out-and-out misogynists or from incel culture.

It's all aimed at "SHE had a relationship with someone other than the male protagonist? That's not okay", and then doesn't elaborate on why that is, other than "it makes me uncomfortable". And I am of the opinion that such mindsets should be pushed back against, or at minimum questioned if only to tease out the underlying belief system that leads someone to think, much less contribute to discourse, like that.
Which is why up and down this comment chain I've asked "would you still be this upset if it had been Otekai who was widowed and Tsubaki who came back into his life having been single?", because it's the same situation, just gender swapped, and by their logic it should be just as distasteful and problematic.

And if they can't genuinely answer in the affirmative, then the follow-up question is "then why is it only wrong when the woman isn't a pure maiden?" because that is a sentiment that is objectively problematic.

This series in particular is actually moving directly away from that setup--something I find both refreshing and promising for what it could mean for future manga titles, if this ends up successful enough to emulate by other authors--and suddenly it has detractors calling Tsubaki "used goods" and Otekai a "cuck". Challenging those stances is why I'm still here days after the chapter went up, so that others passively reading through see them being called out.

 

[evbil]

It's because every comment & complaint that falls along the lines of "Tsubaki had someone in her life before Otakei and that makes me upset" comes across as almost in lockstep with the sort of rhetoric you'd hear from out-and-out misogynists or from incel culture.

It's all aimed at "SHE had a relationship with someone other than the male protagonist? That's not okay", and then doesn't elaborate on why that is, other than "it makes me uncomfortable". And I am of the opinion that such mindsets should be pushed back against, or at minimum questioned if only to tease out the underlying belief system that leads someone to think, much less contribute to discourse, like that.
Which is why up and down this comment chain I've asked "would you still be this upset if it had been Otekai who was widowed and Tsubaki who came back into his life having been single?", because it's the same situation, just gender swapped, and by their logic it should be just as distasteful and problematic.

And if they can't genuinely answer in the affirmative, then the follow-up question is "then why is it only wrong when the woman isn't a pure maiden?" because that is a sentiment that is objectively problematic.

This series in particular is actually moving directly away from that setup--something I find both refreshing and promising for what it could mean for future manga titles, if this ends up successful enough to emulate by other authors--and suddenly it has detractors calling Tsubaki "used goods" and Otekai a "cuck". Challenging those stances is why I'm still here days after the chapter went up, so that others passively reading through see them being called out.

So all that yapping was just you fueling your culture-war brained mind lol this is embarrassing you def use twitter or tumblr 😂 do you even care about these stories at all or do you just wanna argue and own the 'chuds' and spread your feminist propaganda you sound like a tourist

 

[UdenEmpati]

So all that yapping was just you fueling your culture-war brained mind lol this is embarrassing you def use twitter or tumblr 😂 do you even care about these stories at all or do you just wanna argue and own the 'chuds' and spread your feminist propaganda you sound like a tourist

If that was the extent of what you're capable of dredging up when trying to dismiss what I've had to say, then I'm perfectly comfortable letting you believe whatever helps you keep warm at night. It sure as hell isn't another person, if this peek into your psyche is representative of the sort of person you are in your day to day.

I'd say "you'll understand when you're older", but that would require a desire for and, more importantly, the capacity to expand beyond the confines of the mental keyhole that passes for your perspective of the world.

 

[rabidporcupine]

In their defense, it's not like they're hallucinating - the author is definitely using unaswered questions to create a sense of uncertainty and unease in the protagonist and, by extension, the reader. I can almost see how somebody who feels "once-bitten" by a Rent-a-Girlfriend or something might see a questionably-available love interest and Threatening Male Presence as "cuck"-coded. The imagined husband in the dream was obviously intended to be threatening to Otakei, because he's not presented as NTR Man as might typically befit a gal, but a successful adult man in a suit - jabbing right at Otakei's deepest insecurities at the moment. While it's obviously not literally cuck shit/NTR, playing with the idea that "you might never be enough for her" is a distillation of a certain kind of fear central to that experience, I think.

I do disagree with their assessment, because we see that the dream was part of (or motivation towards) coming to terms with the fact that he just might love her, rather than just a treat for the masochists.

But if this reader is like "this makes me uncomfortable," then yeah, I think it's trying to do that... but only a little. If it makes you very uncomfortable and that's not what you come to romance manga for, then UdenEmpati's right and maybe one of the other, teen-focused Otaku x Gal stories is more appropriate.

It's interesting how the people who are really triggered by this seem to be ones that are focused on the romance and have very specific expectations about the story playing out in a typical fashion. Personally, I'm more interested in the rest of each character's story, like what kind of evidently heavy shit happened with her husband, and how dude's manga's gonna do. With how the series has approached things more maturely and showed that the important part of their artist-and-muse/cheerleader relationship doesn't rely on romance to work, I'd already still be satisfied by an ending where they don't wind up together but were simply important parts of each others' lives for a while.

I'm kinda surprised the other complainers are still sticking with it six chapters in, honestly. This seems like it would be a really boring hate-read.

Honestly, for most of the haters, I think we’re the entertainment they’re here for. The manga itself is just a chore they have to go through to arm themselves with shit to try and get in an argument with us over.

 

[essensue]

Honestly, for most of the haters, I think we’re the entertainment they’re here for. The manga itself is just a chore they have to go through to arm themselves with shit to try and get in an argument with us over.

If true, I am proud to be wasting their (admittedly worthless) time with my rambling nonsense.

Please don't actually step up your game, haters. You're perfect just the way you are.