The Saga of Tanya the Evil - Vol. 28 Ch. 89 - Magnificent Victory II

[SuperOniichan]

But we know that the Empire loses within the Youjo Senki universe ... Still, I do agree that it is revanchist (I mean the ending where the Empire loses is probably a literal deus ex machina), and Carlo Zen is kind of identifying this whitewashed Germany with WWII era Imperial Japan but whatevs. I don't really think it's Nazi apologist or whatever the Imperial Japan analogue would be. Sometimes it's difficult to tell apart the ideology of the author and the character. We know that Tanya is an intensely anti-communist, capitalistic meritocrat, and (with lapses,) a pacificist. But I'm not sure how many of those beliefs are shared by Carlo Zen. That is to say I'm not sure how much of it is Carlo Zen using the novel as a soapbox and how much of it is him making an interesting character.

You (unintentionally) took my words out of context. While many people seem to genuinely see YS as some kind of wet dream about a "hero who will save Germany", I'm just kidding that out of context the plot of the story looks like a very over-the-top revanchist fantasy. Or even more like a parody of it. As I said above, the real Zen leans more towards the idealistic left judging by his Twitter, but we don't know his intentions behind writing this work anyway. I used to see it as satire mixed with Reichophilia, but I obviously don't know Zen's true intentions. Perhaps the situation is somewhat similar to Blade of the Immortal, where the passionate author of SM eroguro is in real life a vocal activist against misogynistic violence.

 

[Cosmism]

You (unintentionally) took my words out of context. While many people seem to genuinely see YS as some kind of wet dream about a "hero who will save Germany", I'm just kidding that out of context the plot of the story looks like a very over-the-top revanchist fantasy. Or even more like a parody of it. As I said above, the real Zen leans more towards the idealistic left judging by his Twitter, but we don't know his intentions behind writing this work anyway. I used to see it as satire mixed with Reichophilia, but I obviously don't know Zen's true intentions. Perhaps the situation is somewhat similar to Blade of the Immortal, where the passionate author of SM eroguro is in real life a vocal activist against misogynistic violence.

Sorry, and I think I might have misunderstood you. Thank you for the context. Yeah I was thinking something like Nabokov and Pale Fire, where the protagonist's ideas and predilections are not at all a match for the author's.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Sorry, and I think I might have misunderstood you. Thank you for the context. Yeah I was thinking something like Nabokov and Pale Fire, where the protagonist's ideas and predilections are not at all a match for the author's.

The main problem here is that even if we can at least speculate in theory about Zen's own views, we still don't know how seriously and deeply he personally takes his story. I mean, he could have written Tanya as a meaningful satire and criticism, or just an idealized villainous protagonist. However, this is clearly not the case with Redo Healer or Spy x Family, where the original draft was created with the audience in mind, rather than topics of interest to the author personally.

 

[Cosmism]

The main problem here is that even if we can at least speculate in theory about Zen's own views, we still don't know how seriously and deeply he personally takes his story. I mean, he could have written Tanya as a meaningful satire and criticism, or just an idealized villainous protagonist. However, this is clearly not the case with Redo Healer or Spy x Family, where the original draft was created with the audience in mind, rather than topics of interest to the author personally.

Redo Healer 🤮
But yeah, I'll just enjoy the story and the art and not try too hard to sound out Carlo Zen. He obviously is interested in military history though. He also managed to make one of the more interesting magic systems around (though the idea of technologically enabled magic is not original, he definitely fleshed it out in a compelling way).

But yeah, him plus Toujou Chika makes a great team. Some people have complained about the presence of certain things, but I don't really think she's done the story a bad turn at all. And the art style is pretty excellent, both the standard art with it's sensibility for shadow and value as well as the cracked machinery design and also the chibi art (the animal stuff reminds me of Maus and Nathan Hale's Hazardous Tales).

 

[Ratentaisou]

https://imgur.com/gCryUNG

RRRRAAAAHHHHH YURI!!!!!

 

[albl1122]

Old enough to kill but too young to drink

I just find it hilarious how that is a potential thing to occur in a certain western irl country as well.
Clearly at 18 you can deploy to the middle east, drinking? are you crazy, you need to be 21 for that.

 

[SuperOniichan]

I just find it hilarious how that is a potential thing to occur in a certain western irl country as well.
Clearly at 18 you can deploy to the middle east, drinking? are you crazy, you need to be 21 for that.

I always thought this whole age 21 thing was a bit over the top in some countries. Like, you're an adult at 18, but you still need 3 years to be fully adult.

 

[Matikkkii]

But we know that the Empire loses within the Youjo Senki universe ... Still, I do agree that it is revanchist (I mean the ending where the Empire loses is probably a literal deus ex machina), and Carlo Zen is kind of identifying this whitewashed Germany with WWII era Imperial Japan but whatevs. I don't really think it's Nazi apologist or whatever the Imperial Japan analogue would be. Sometimes it's difficult to tell apart the ideology of the author and the character. We know that Tanya is an intensely anti-communist, capitalistic meritocrat, and (with lapses,) a pacificist. But I'm not sure how many of those beliefs are shared by Carlo Zen. That is to say I'm not sure how much of it is Carlo Zen using the novel as a soapbox and how much of it is him making an interesting character.

Well, the author surely isn't as capitalist as Tanya, since he is using her as a critique of said system, with her slowly changing her beliefs.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Well, the author surely isn't as capitalist as Tanya, since he is using her as a critique of said system, with her slowly changing her beliefs.

These debates are pointless because the Zen almost openly calls himself a left-wing idealist and regularly cites socialists and communists as the solution to all problems. But I haven't seen much of that in story so far, except for his explicit criticism of the oppression of ordinary people. Although for the Japanese left, it seems quite normal to criticize both the US/West and the USSR. Read what Tomino and Miyazaki had to say about the Cold War.

 

[Manko-sensei]

https://imgur.com/gCryUNG

RRRRAAAAHHHHH YURI!!!!!

 

[Blackspace_2]

"didnt know if it was good or bad at the time" while there is an image of what i presume is auschwitz? very bold

 

[SuperOniichan]

"didnt know if it was good or bad at the time" while there is an image of what i presume is auschwitz? very bold

I don't quite understand what you're talking about, but I assume that the author kinda is reproaching Tanya for cherry picking?

 

[SageVonManga]

"didnt know if it was good or bad at the time" while there is an image of what i presume is auschwitz? very bold

Since that place is an unmarked graveyard and there are no gravestones there, much less a field of them, that seems like a stretch. It's more natural to assume that it's a reference to the death inherent to war.

The context of the Tanya's inner monologue seems to be highlighting the difference between first hand and second/third/etc experience. In that context it it would seem be Tanya resolving herself to the fact that she can't predict the outcomes of everything that she will have to do going forward.

 

[Whack08]

On the topic of "...still have a child's body" she's 14(54) or something here, bro is just being factual that teens are still kids. She's also the most powerful meth head east of the Rhine who's hybrid fuel is scripture–if she say she a kid she a kid.

 

[SuperOniichan]

On the topic of "...still have a child's body" she's 14(54) or something here, bro is just being factual that teens are still kids. She's also the most powerful meth head east of the Rhine who's hybrid fuel is scripture–if she say she a kid she a kid.

Not so much in this context. Tanya is not yet an adult, yes, but she is not a little girl anymore either. Not to mention that contrasting yourself as an "adult" to a seventeen or eighteen year old Visha is just a bit excessive.

 

[mahtan]

Good donkeys get more load to carry.

It doesn't sound as good in english...
What is that last panel? She feeling lonely now?

 

[Kalamel]

"it's good to see a revanchist fantasy" - do you enjoy it without any irony as a "if the Germans had won WWII" wish fulfillment fantasy?

I'm not familiar with the term "revanchist" but I think this story would be much more like the case of Germany won WW1 more than WW2.

 

[SuperOniichan]

I'm not familiar with the term "revanchist" but I think this story would be much more like the case of Germany won WW1 more than WW2.

As has been written above, this fits in quite well with the pre-war/WWII mix, with some artistic reservations. Which makes sense, given that Zen clearly preferred the Kaiser's Germany over writing Tanya as a literal Nazi anti-hero.

Depends on the context in which you use it. In science, revanchism is the revision of a concept or theory to prove a previously disproved or rejected statement. For example, theories like "Hitler/Stalin/my grandmother were actually right, but they were slandered." In this context, we are talking about so-called historical isekai, where the author finds himself in an important historical period at a decisive moment in order to "fixing" history to his taste. This was clearly not the author's intention, so I joke about such vibes.

 

[Blackspace_2]

Since that place is an unmarked graveyard and there are no gravestones there, much less a field of them, that seems like a stretch. It's more natural to assume that it's a reference to the death inherent to war.

The context of the Tanya's inner monologue seems to be highlighting the difference between first hand and second/third/etc experience. In that context it it would seem be Tanya resolving herself to the fact that she can't predict the outcomes of everything that she will have to do going forward.

yeah i agree but just looking at the building in the background and it looks a lot like the most well known buildinh at auschwitz