Taida na Akujoku Kizoku ni Tensei Shita Ore, Scenario wo Bukkowa Shitara Kikaku-gai no Maryoku de Saikyou ni Natta - Ch. 17 - Necessary Evil and Abso…

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Always with the fuggin slavery. I can imagine the comments that I’m skipping.

And seriously, can’t he exorcise that shithead from his soul? It just points out that this “forced villainy” is just a bullshit plot device. To quote a.. not so good movie, just don’t be an asshole. Or don’t be a dick, I forget which one she said.
 
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I mean yeah of course Allen got mad. Slavery is just a way to exploit people for the enrichment of a few usually against their will and in the poorest conditions that'll still turn a profit. it's not necessary or even beneficial to society. Also sounds like demihumans just get auto enslaved? or are they included in "poor people"?

Though I will agree that its probably not the wisest move to preach anti-nobility rhetoric in a class full of nobles. But Allen wasn't wrong there either. And a "desire to fight"? The greed and stupidity of people that will never ever step onto a battlefield have probably caused most of history's wars.

Aaaanyways, cool chap. Neat to see the original personality haunting the MC.
 
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Jeez, MC's being "Okay" with slavery existing always leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, IMO it really bugs me to the point where I just can't continue some of the stories I read, it angers me further when story goes, "Oh but it's actually not as bad as you think it its!" and list reasons why it's necessary. Like dawg, it's still just slavery??? Why are you preaching this to me like it's a positive thing?? Idk, I guess I keep thinking back to the a saying floating around the internet, I'm paraphrasing here but it went something along the lines of,
"Never argue with somebody John Brown would have shot."
Is it too much to ask for an MC that just doesn't give a damn about another world's views on slavery and does what he can to abolish it?
That being said, did you guys know there's a John Brown isekai story? Go check it out if you got the time.
Fella, being compassionate and freedom-loving is fine and all, but understand there are human evils and punishment of this world beyond comprehension. Slaves of the past were rewards/spoils of war - because the city was razed, the land scorched, and the treasures looted. See what Rome did to Carthage or any violent imperial history.
It was a societal thing and socially accepted among the victorious parties. Slavery also appeals to an addiction to power - the powerless victim(s) who are/were compelled to serve. It was also an acceptable form of punishment because power trip reasons and forcing productivity out of people who were expensive to feed and maintain. Christianity came along but hey, we still had defined serfdoms throughout the middle ages and into the industrial revolution (Korea for example didn't even abolish slavery until 1894).
Now in modern capitalism, we have wage-slave system and Freedom can be and is literally bought... and sufficient payments to foreign power means freedom can be taken away. Never mind the fact there are for-profit industries literally designed to keep people in prison and work pennies to the hour (look to the worst US states for examples in Alabama and Louisiana ).
It isn't much to ask for an MC who doesn't give a damn. But it is a lot for an author to write a story around an MC trying to abolish an established system within their life time without a firm support base... and have them survive the aftermath (Abe Lincoln).

Anyway, if you want to find/read a manga with an MC who literally worked to abolish slavery, "The Heroic Legend of Arslan" is probably worth a look.
 
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Just because you aren't wrong, doesn't mean that you are right.
But I understand that perspective. Fixing slavery would require flipping the country's policies upside down, changing the way many products are produced, taking care of the people who would end up as a slaves in the future, while making sure that the current freed slaves would find a legal way to provide for themselves.
You can't just free them up and tell them to live however they want. Something similar was in Arslan Senki.
this is why I really appreciate how isekai bookworm portrays the "I want to fix something but I got no power to flip it so I have to give up for now"

I didn't read LN/WN so idk if she managed to
found the way tell the public how the consumption can easily fix without using expensive relic after she being noble or not
 
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Most Western countries that practiced slavery abolished it without a civil war. The United States is a unique case, where the American Civil War is borne out of the conflict between the landowning slaver class that had been the predominant faction of the wealthy/rich population through the country's existence up until that point, and the new industrial classes (capitalist and worker alike) that opposed slavery both for moral reasons and financial reasons. Elsewhere in the West the landowners used serfdom, not chattle slavery, but this too largely fell in time as national governments centralized their authority and needed more free manpower for their armies. Slavery abolition is entirely possible by reform, but it largely revolves around transforming the nation's economy to end dependence on it as a source of labor.

To your point about the United States being a more-or-less unique case due to its practice of chattel slavery - we also have no idea whether the setting in-story is the same, or more like the serfdom/"spoils of war" model seen elsewhere in history.

That's not to defend the practice. And, I also recall that Weiss (or at least the protagonist who becomes Weiss) isn't "for slavery" - but that his whole gripe about the confrontation with Allen was over Allen's idealism clashing with the logistical realities of actually removing a foundational pillar of a country's social & economic apparatus.

That's what this chapter is ultimately about, I think. That he's just pissed off over Allen jumping up and making these claims that, while true in essence and certainly lovely-sounding platitudes, he's doing it in a setting full of the people whose families are the exact sort of individuals and groups who directly benefit from the practice, and comprise the social caste Allen is raving against.
Allen, and orphan commoner, is understandably passionate about the issue - but speaking out as a near-lone dissenter just causes problems for him, and for anyone close to him, and he's also offering nothing in the way of actually addressing and fixing the issue, colossal and immensely complex as it is.

And when the protagonist calls him out on that, Allen just gets pissy and verbally accosts him, and that awakens the Actual Weiss inside him, who bares his fangs at Allen because of the weirdly fundamental animosity between them as a part of the world's settings, or something, and that is likely very tiring or at least annoying for the protagonist to deal with.

So yes - the slavery thing is the backdrop to the conflict of the chapter, but it's more about the protagonist having trouble keeping a lid on the asshole inside him, because Allen's blind idealism risks friction within the social fabric of the academy (which will have knock-on effects for everyone there including the protagonist the more it goes on), and is directly and personally riling up the Weiss of the setting, which is directly problematic for the protagonist.
 
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My brother in Christ, we're reading a fictional story about a guy trapped inside of another guy inside of another world. Another world where literal magic exists. Where people become super-human through effort.

The guy writing this could have, at any point during the writing and editing phases, decided to not introduce slavery. Yet he did, and on top of that is having the protagonist defend it. What good is free labor anyway when a group of magicly roided muscle wizards can do the work of a thousand men? The whole thing is edge for the sake of being edgy.
someone didn't read the world building with detail. Noble have good magic because they afford tutor and book to learn magic. commoner is not that good with magic duh. Allen is special case because he has a talent and OG MC of the story.

why not introducing slavery in his story? because slavery always happen. we IRL only stop slavery in 20th century. Mauritania abolish Slavery in 1981 for god sake. "ohh slavery is bad, should not put in story" is stupid logic as human always took advantage on the poor. we even have new Modern slavery system, using loophole in labor law of certain countries.

i hate slavery so even it logical for it to exist in story, it must not exist. what a stupid take. next what, you hate monarchy so medieval setting isekai should have democracy and republic? truth and reality is not pretty you sweet summer child. nothing wrong to put what mostly happen in such ages in story and worldbuilding.

oh, Noble with magic can solve slavery with magic. so do mega rich Billionaire with such wealth can end world hunger. but did they help or keep that wealth to themselves? it called human greed and taking advantage of others.

telling Noble to use magic and abolish slavery is like telling billionaire to pay more taxes and raise wages plus took less cut from the profit.
 
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Always with the fuggin slavery. I can imagine the comments that I’m skipping.
it's an incredibly convenient drum to hit when you want to paint a person or a country as abhorrent. Generally speaking the average person understands the practice is BadTM and so it's a super convenient line in the sand to differentiate factions in the story by, while also being plausible-enough of a reality for the settings we tend to get in Isekai stories (medieval Europe-coded fantasy sword & sorcery land) that it doesn't feel super out of place.

Not saying it's great, seeing it over and over again, but it's low-hanging fruit in the quiver for any mangaka of middling ability.

And seriously, can’t he exorcise that shithead from his soul? It just points out that this “forced villainy” is just a bullshit plot device. To quote a.. not so good movie, just don’t be an asshole. Or don’t be a dick, I forget which one she said.

I don't know how he would go about actually doing that, since he's not told anyone that he's not actually Weiss (to my knowledge) and as far as I'm aware, we've been given no indication that magics or rituals or artifacts that can....uncleave souls? I guess? exist, so.
 
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Jeez, MC's being "Okay" with slavery existing always leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, IMO it really bugs me to the point where I just can't continue some of the stories I read, it angers me further when story goes, "Oh but it's actually not as bad as you think it its!" and list reasons why it's necessary. Like dawg, it's still just slavery??? Why are you preaching this to me like it's a positive thing?? Idk, I guess I keep thinking back to the a saying floating around the internet, I'm paraphrasing here but it went something along the lines of,
"Never argue with somebody John Brown would have shot."
Is it too much to ask for an MC that just doesn't give a damn about another world's views on slavery and does what he can to abolish it?
That being said, did you guys know there's a John Brown isekai story? Go check it out if you got the time.
You are applying current day morality to no later than an early modern period setting, and this might even be medieval. Slavery is a fact of life and there is nothing that can be done about it, as is nobility. You must understand, they are lacking modern methods of communication and organization, modern industrial farming practices, and the great equalizer of the gun. They are very dependent - as medieval rulers were - upon nobles to own, organize, and operate towns and cities and rural areas outside of the direct capital, where they will collect taxes and pay tribute to the ruler and then run basic drills for peasant and burgher levies, while maintaining a cavalry regiment that they themselves will participate in. Slaves, meanwhile, are criminals and other social outcasts, alongside those who would otherwise starve to death due to the severe poverty rampant in an era before mechanized agriculture.

In short, this is a harsh, brutal world that you have never experienced and I hope you never will. Trying to eliminate these things would result only in untold and unchecked suffering and lawlessness. You don’t have to like it, but the author chose to set this work in a more realistic early modern setting. Weiss is correct, Allen is an empty headed idealist that feels bad about the state of the world but has no solutions and no replacement for all these systems that will suddenly stop working.
 
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Removing/fixing slavery would require a rewrite of the entire manga, and this is not that kind of manga. Maybe go read Realist Hero if you want that kind of manga.
 
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You also have to realize that "abolishing" slavery wont actually abolish slavery in an instant. They will find a way to make you a slave, without actually calling you a slave.

Prime example: billionaires of the current real world hiring expandable low wage workers to fund their billionaire enterprises. Legally you are a hired workforce with an employment contract, but god damn the conditions would probably put slavers of the old world to shame.
 
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people can't read for shit, weiss fucking said slaverly is bad stright up. he just point out going "slavery is bad" without alternative to back that shit up is fucking worthless.
remind me of Attack on titan and how many people (on twitter) find the idea of "genocide is bad" to be such a new innovatiove idea for some reason.

like i wasn't expert on american civiwar but wasn't american just up and drop slave without any job or plan for them so shit like ghetto is happen,don't get me wrong here it still better than being in chain of couse but the result isn't pretty when you just up do bare minimum shit.

Save "do bare minimum shit so problem is infest" for real world goverment.

Bonus: i think many saying europarn "end slave" didn't result in civi war is wrong, It european nation end "slave trade" at best they have slave in said slave's nation so those people just go back to do what they did before.


FFS, weiss didn't defend slaver at all in this chapter, he just point out slavery is a natural outcome of a shit-hole sociaity. his problem sterm from people like allen just never try to find a solution to it than just barking about moral.
 
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The MC is simply arguing that the only way to feed orphans is to enslave them, what's the big deal?
No, he argued that slavery is ONE way to keep orphans from dying on the streets and/or commit crime.

If Allen has a way to deal with that issue if slavery is abolished, he would have been okay with it. But Allen, naive as he be, only quite literally said "those who can help should do so" but does not provide the How and Why. If I were Weiss I would be pissed too.
 
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Most Western countries that practiced slavery abolished it without a civil war. The United States is a unique case, where the American Civil War is borne out of the conflict between the landowning slaver class that had been the predominant faction of the wealthy/rich population through the country's existence up until that point, and the new industrial classes (capitalist and worker alike) that opposed slavery both for moral reasons and financial reasons. Elsewhere in the West the landowners used serfdom, not chattle slavery, but this too largely fell in time as national governments centralized their authority and needed more free manpower for their armies. Slavery abolition is entirely possible by reform, but it largely revolves around transforming the nation's economy to end dependence on it as a source of labor.
but in this story, the Government is not centralize, its can only works and abolished with less issues when you have centralize government. America Civil war basically like a Noble that use slaves to make money vs Noble that use new industrial way to gain money.

serfdom basically like today modern day slavery. you still have your freedom but you cant quit your job to the owner of the company without agreement from the owner. war prisoner were make slaves too. not to mention treatment on slaves is different based on countries. there are part of the world slave we treated harshly and there is part of the world they have better treatment but still, no freedom.

the key here is about who is pocket affected when slaves is suddenly abolish. if you tried, by today standard to force employee to must provide dental, paid maternity leave for husband for 90 days like mother, ofc they would against it. but ofc we said, child need father to take care the mother who need medical care and the baby too. or like you go to Third world country and force them to increase the minimum wage like developed countries. you going to face backlashed.

or even better, just increase the taxes on Billionaire so that money can use to support poor people.
 
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You also have to realize that "abolishing" slavery wont actually abolish slavery in an instant. They will find a way to make you a slave, without actually calling you a slave.

Prime example: billionaires of the current real world hiring expandable low wage workers to fund their billionaire enterprises. Legally you are a hired workforce with an employment contract, but god damn the conditions would probably put slavers of the old world to shame.
Better example: the Union didn’t get rid of plantations, the slaves were only nominally free. They installed regime friendly owners to run the plantation and then divided the same plantation up into several plots and made the previous slaves rent from the plantation owner and sell him the crop output during harvest season, resulting in effectively slavery with extra steps, but even worse than before because their communities were cut off due to distance. The only slaves that were actually freed really were the relatively well cared for house slaves of middle income city dwellers, and those freed slaves now had to leave to some other ghetto often in the middle of nowhere and lives a hard and poor existence rather than the relatively comfortable one they had before (not to say that nothing bad ever happened to them, but house slaves were generally treated very differently to those that worked in the fields).
 
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Slavery is inherently evil. Full stop.

Arguing the pragmatism of allowing the violation of basic human rights is just admitting you're too much of a wuss to unilaterally fuck over wealthy slave owners. Even if you have to force compliance. Even if you have to force through social programs that support the child slaves you claim are just better off that way.

So yes, Weiss is a coward. He may be strong but he's rationalizing not using his strength to stop something inherently evil.

I think a great example is Gojo from Jujutsu Kaisen. The dude is strong and leverages that strength to outright warp the politics of the world around him. The old figures are fully aware he could butcher them so his voice can cause a lot of unconventional things to occur.
 
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Better example: the Union didn’t get rid of plantations, the slaves were only nominally free. They installed regime friendly owners to run the plantation and then divided the same plantation up into several plots and made the previous slaves rent from the plantation owner and sell him the crop output during harvest season, resulting in effectively slavery with extra steps, but even worse than before because their communities were cut off due to distance. The only slaves that were actually freed really were the relatively well cared for house slaves of middle income city dwellers, and those freed slaves now had to leave to some other ghetto often in the middle of nowhere and lives a hard and poor existence rather than the relatively comfortable one they had before (not to say that nothing bad ever happened to them, but house slaves were generally treated very differently to those that worked in the fields).
even more simple example: the 13th amendment of the US Constitution.

Slavery is abolished, unless it's happening to someone convicted and sentenced/incarcerated by the justice system.

Guess who gets socially & economically disenfranchised/persecuted over the next century and thus ends up making up the majority of the prison population?

The best part, the answer is by and large "poor people", not even a specific ethnic/racial group.
 
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So yes, Weiss is a coward. He may be strong but he's rationalizing not using his strength to stop something inherently evil.
i say, A dude that belive one must find a good alternative is not a coward, and a moron that can only go "bad thing is bad" is one.
otherwise goverment that do bareminimum shit is the most courage being to ever born.
but hey you do you.

imagin seeing women being kill and go "nooo killing is bad" then call dude that try to find weapon cause he didn't want to end up die with women anyway, A COWARD.
 
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