Honzuki no Gekokujou: Shisho ni Naru tame ni wa Shudan o Erandeiraremasen—Dai-4 Bu: Kizokuin no Toshokan o Sukuitai! - Ch. 43 - A Guard Knight At The…

[niteman555]

Reading the room and understanding context is important when it comes to unsheathing a sword. Damuel knows Ferdinand is no enemy.

But if we're going to talk about this stuff, you know who really fucked up? Wilfried's knight, Lamprecht, when Ferdinand roped his Lord at the temple and threatened him with raising up his siblings against him. Lamprecht is intolerably passive throughout the series.

[P3 side stories]

Spoiler

Hopefully we get to see the sidestory where Eckhart scolds Lamprecht about him not behaving as an archnoble retainer of the archducal family.

 

[kraize]

Just such a good chapter with Angelica.

 

[Maplefield]

It's always nice to get into Angelica's head

It's nice and spacious in there ☺️

 

[dragon32]

Ahhh Angelica, you are like your mistress, two birds of a feather and both a waste of beauty lol.

 

[mahtan]

The issue here is that ferdinands words dont matter as much. As soon as ferdinand actually drew his schtappe then Damuel had to react. Whether or not ferdinand actually meant to attack isnt something Damuel, as rozemynes guard knight, should assume. Also we all know ferdinand doesnt make empty threats he doesnt intend to follow through with. So if he said he would blast her to make her drop her reinforcement he will do something damuel should move to protect her from. Ferdinands reasons, rationalizations, and justifations are literally not Damuels jobs to determine. Unless rozemyne explicitly directed him to stay back he should have been right there with angelica as soon as ferdinand threatened rozemyne and drew his schtappe. Only after Ferdinand puts his schtappe away and/or rozemyne orders them to move should they move away.

Angelica may have messed up but Damuel made a equally large misstep.

Sure but you only react, as a guard, when you know there is a danger.
Ferdinand taking his schtappe there was a normal occurrence and he knew there was no danger so there was no reason to react, Angelica was right to react because she is not used to how things are between Ferdinand and Myne.
Do I think Ferdinand is right in threatening her with a lethal weapon like that? No, but that doesn't change it is just has become their dynamic, also at this point Myne should have been able to take her own schtappe and defend herself if it was really a threat better than anything Angelica could ever do with a bloody sword against a master magician.

 

[SilverBarnOwl]

lethal-non-lethal weapon-tool

 

[WhimsiCat]

Unless rozemyne explicitly directed him to stay back he should have been right there with angelica as soon as ferdinand threatened rozemyne and drew his schtappe. Only after Ferdinand puts his schtappe away and/or rozemyne orders them to move should they move away.

Angelica may have messed up but Damuel made a equally large misstep.

And yet nobody, not even you, call out Eckhart for 'not acting' when Angelica pointed her blade at Ferdinand...I WONDER WHY.

It's almost like the lack of visible action does not make a 'misstep' or anything.

 

[dragonstar457]

Sure but you only react, as a guard, when you know there is a danger.
Ferdinand taking his schtappe there was a normal occurrence and he knew there was no danger so there was no reason to react, Angelica was right to react because she is not used to how things are between Ferdinand and Myne.
Do I think Ferdinand is right in threatening her with a lethal weapon like that? No, but that doesn't change it is just has become their dynamic, also at this point Myne should have been able to take her own schtappe and defend herself if it was really a threat better than anything Angelica could ever do with a bloody sword against a master magician.

Ferdinand drawing his schtappe and stating, quite clearly, that he will blast her if she didnt drop the reinforcment constitutes a danger. Rozemynes action, or lack there-of, only matters when she is believed to be capable enough to determine dangers on her own. The fact it is just their dynamic and accepted means that if ferdinand ever actually turned on her then she is basically defenseless. Now even if they had stepped in and tried protecting her they would fail. The failure part comes from them just accepting that and refusing to even try to protect her. It doesnt matter if its a regular occurance just acting that way determines restrictions on ferdinands side and can teach rozemyne what in their society sees as excessive.

And yet nobody, not even you, call out Eckhart for 'not acting' when Angelica pointed her blade at Ferdinand...I WONDER WHY.

It's almost like the lack of visible action does not make a 'misstep' or anything.

Eckhart isnt in the same position as Damuel at all. We can see from his training with Angelica that he had multiple ways to intervene and the will to do so if it came to it.

 

[jctsoi]

At least the room they setup for Rosemyne's female attendant matches Angelica a lot better than it did for Bridgette.

 

[ismaelh]

Ok so she's not really an idiot at all, just quite innocent. Shes quite good at interpersonal skills even.

 

[WhimsiCat]

Eckhart isnt in the same position as Damuel at all. We can see from his training with Angelica that he had multiple ways to intervene and the will to do so if it came to it.

Which, again, we weren't shown any of that until he explains in this chapter. Neither Eckhart's preparation, nor Ferdinand stopping him in the last chapter. Y'know, the incident you claim Damuel 'misstep' for not taking any action?

What's to say Damuel wasn't also observing the situation carefully and judged that Ferdinand was in fact bluffing?
Ferdinand isn't above lying/bluffing when he want to.

 

[wakanana]

I see Angelica isn't stupid at all. In fact, she's quite sharp.
The reason she's so bad at anything non-knight is that she just doesn't care enough

I'm sorry, but no. She's legitimately dumb.

 

[wakanana]

Binding someone and tying them to a chair could be viewed as harsh education for a recalcitrant child and isnt likely viewed as excessive. Talking about raising his siblings to overthrow wilfried also isnt out of line and is something that is common in noble politics. However if ferdinand had threatened to actually attack wilfried lamprecht would have been duty-bound to intervene to protect his lord.

Roping the Aub's heir isn't seen as harsh education. Strictly speaking, It's treason against the Aub.

Expressing a desire to raise his siblings against him is also treason against the Aub, because the Aub has already decided Wilfired will be the heir.

 

[stainx]

Angelica is one of my favorite of rozemynes retainers in the series. She may have messed up here but she wasnt the only one who messed up badly. Damuel, despite lecturing her, was also severely in the wrong for his response as well. Angelica reacted to a percieved threat and got talked into leaving despite neither her mistress, fellow guard, or magic talking sword telling her that she shouldnt have left. Damuel on the other hand didnt react at all to ferdinands threat and that made him a failure too since this is a similar situation that caused him to get punished with demotion to begin with.

Yeah Damuel got complacent due to having stayed at the temple for a while and witnessed Ferd/Roz antics before , plus he knows the whole picture regarding RM‘s background adding to him not reacting appropriately.
That said he didnt really lecture her , he was just explaining why Angelica was scolded (which is something she really needs to know to continue being a guard knight) and somewhat even gave her a praise for immediately guarding RM when Ferd pulled the schtappe out . He probably knows he messed up himself too.

 

[art17]

Well, good to know more about the struggles of the dumb knight

 

[AlmondMagnum]

If that was the case then Angelica didnt mess up at all. If anything she corrected herself from interfering with Ferdinand and Damuel was 100% wrong to lecture her even if she was tricked by the Ferdinand.
In anycase if Ferdinand had just stuck to words and grabbed her to keep her from escaping then her guards interfering wouldnt be appropriate unless he started actively trying to harm her beyond what their relationship usually allowed. Drawing his schtappe and threatening to blast her escalated it beyond what im guessing is acceptable. if he said he would bind her and tie her to a chair its different from threatening to literally blast her to get her to drop the reinforcement.
Ferdinand was a bit impressed that Angelica had the drive to draw her weapon on him in defense of her charge even if she then messed up because he distracted her. He would only have disdain for her if her doing so wasnt appropriate and he would have stated as such.

Angelica did mess up:
1. She didn't make a judgment call that Ferdinand was harmless. She let herself be distracted. Very different.
2. More importantly: she deserted her duty when she left Rozemyne without permission. It doesn't matter what Ferdinand says about it - Rozemyne is the only one who can give her leave. It's completely different from obeying him when Rozemyne wants them to cooperate.

 

[AlmondMagnum]

And yet nobody, not even you, call out Eckhart for 'not acting' when Angelica pointed her blade at Ferdinand...I WONDER WHY.

We're told, right in this chapter, that Ferdinand stopped him. Which probably means discreetly signaled him to stand down.

 

[WhimsiCat]

We're told, right in this chapter, that Ferdinand stopped him. Which probably means discreetly signaled him to stand down.

Exactly BECAUSE it's after we're told is why I find the guy stupid to callout Damuel not doing anything.

In the chapter where it happened, you don't see any sign of either Eckhart preparing to strike nor Ferdinand signal in any form.
Eckhart, even as he was ready to counter Angelica, was still observant enough to notice whatever was Ferdinand's signal to stop.
So despite no visible movements, a lot was going on.

Yet the guy just assume Damuel made some 'misstep' despite this chapter showing it could be otherwise.

It's canon that laynoble knights are good at mana detection because as bottom of the power ranking they need to quickly detect which enemies are out of their league.
So what's to say Damuel judged Ferdinand was bluffing not only from precedence of these two's antics but also because he sensed that the mana in Ferdinand's schtappe was not at the level to make any attack?

 

[AlmondMagnum]

Exactly BECAUSE it's after we're told is why I find the guy stupid to callout Damuel not doing anything.

In the chapter where it happened, you don't see any sign of either Eckhart preparing to strike nor Ferdinand signal in any form.
Eckhart, even as he was ready to counter Angelica, was still observant enough to notice whatever was Ferdinand's signal to stop.
So despite no visible movements, a lot was going on.

Yet the guy just assume Damuel made some 'misstep' despite this chapter showing it could be otherwise.

It's canon that laynoble knights are good at mana detection because as bottom of the power ranking they need to quickly detect which enemies are out of their league.
So what's to say Damuel judged Ferdinand was bluffing not only from precedence of these two's antics but also because he sensed that the mana in Ferdinand's schtappe was not at the level to make any attack?

That's not really how mana detection works. At least from what the author says, but some parts are somewhat inconsistent.

Damuel can't sense Ferdinand's mana. They're too far apart. Basically, you're only supposed to sense people with roughly the right amount of mana to have children with (though gender doesn't enter into it). That's why Damuel can sense devouring soldiers, but archnobles like Karstedt can't.

 

[WhimsiCat]

That's not really how mana detection works. At least from what the author says, but some parts are somewhat inconsistent.

Damuel can't sense Ferdinand's mana. They're too far apart. Basically, you're only supposed to sense people with roughly the right amount of mana to have children with (though gender doesn't enter into it). That's why Damuel can sense devouring soldiers, but archnobles like Karstedt can't.

It's not the 'find a possible partner' puberty detection, but it is a form of mana detection.

Example:

Spoiler

WN ch 356, he's accompanying Rozemyne through her rehab because he can detect even tiny mana flow from her, so he can tell when she's trying to sneakily use body enhancement

Per the wiki

Spoiler

It's in Q&A section of Fanbook vol 2 that
Knights go through mana detection training so they're more perceptive, and in fact the ability to fly to castle through blizzard without ever getting lost is a type of mana detection (I don't think everyone's castle-sexual)

There's also another form of using mana to detect things shown in the series.

Spoiler

Ferdinand teach Rozemyne how to spread your mana VERY thinly across the area to detect foreign mana (has to be very small amount of mana to avoid traps that activate when it detect certain mana level)

This was when the bible/key were stolen.