Tensei Shite High Elf ni Narimashitaga, Slow Life wa 120-nen de Akimashita - Highelf with a Long Life - Ch. 54.1 - Interlude: Upon the Throne

[Bloddrake]

The vikings stopped folding and started casting before the Japanese started folding, why? We went from bog iron blooms to proper iron, thanks to the water powered blast furnace.

 

[GreenDude1]

No, but they are different. They come from a different tradition of forging, which can be a difficult thing to recreate whole-cloth, especially when you're already so far down another path. It even says that they were able to create katana-shaped objects—things that I assume mimicked or even improved upon the shape and properties of the katana—but were still different enough that it did not have the "soul" of the weapon they talk about.

So a katana is no more difficult to make (and isn't magically superior to) other swords, if you already know how, but if all you are familiar with is what appears to be roughly-medieval European smithing techniques, reinventing the details of Japanese metallurgy is no easy task.

All swords are different in how you forge them. Scimitar and a Zweihänder are forged differently from each other. And yet blacksmiths are still fully capable of both of them.

 

[TheGreatALBundy]

I imagine one day Aesir getting into some trouble and The Dwarven military rolls into town and just goes: "Oy, let our knife-ear go or else."

 

[Seinvolf]

Thank u always for ur great work...
^^...

 

[finalm]

No, but they are different. They come from a different tradition of forging, which can be a difficult thing to recreate whole-cloth, especially when you're already so far down another path. It even says that they were able to create katana-shaped objects—things that I assume mimicked or even improved upon the shape and properties of the katana—but were still different enough that it did not have the "soul" of the weapon they talk about.

So a katana is no more difficult to make (and isn't magically superior to) other swords, if you already know how, but if all you are familiar with is what appears to be roughly-medieval European smithing techniques, reinventing the details of Japanese metallurgy is no easy task.

It's not like they asked him to recreate Japanese forging technique, no one could even verify whether it was done in the traditional way or not, otherwise they'd be able to do it themselves. All they asked for is the blade itself, which can be made to look and perform identically in many different ways.

 

[_hng_]

I'll just consider fantasy katana to be our translation of their mythical sword.

 

[UncleKaos]

So far i know it just takes longer time to make katana and that is it. folding iron over and over to make it more durable. but i did read in history books Katanas were meant to be used for quick attacks. ending fights quickly. otherwise in a longer fight they would break sooner or later. hell some did have a weapon that was designed to break them. so they weren't too durable but useful for fast attack and ending a fight faster.

 

[w3searcher]

Probably didn't help that they only had (apparently) one example of a katana to go by.
I imagine a dozen swords would give you plenty of examples and lots of different ways to examine and attempts to run tests on that you wouldn't be able to do with just one.

Not saying it couldn't be done because katanas are so great or anything, but the cards were stacked against him I imagine.

 

[TNT261]

I will never get over Manga hyping up the Katanna as this god tier mystical weapon that everyone is stoked on and struggles to recreate. Like you made the story. Might as well be the hype man for your own culture.

 

[TNT261]

No, but they are different. They come from a different tradition of forging, which can be a difficult thing to recreate whole-cloth, especially when you're already so far down another path. It even says that they were able to create katana-shaped objects—things that I assume mimicked or even improved upon the shape and properties of the katana—but were still different enough that it did not have the "soul" of the weapon they talk about.

So a katana is no more difficult to make (and isn't magically superior to) other swords, if you already know how, but if all you are familiar with is what appears to be roughly-medieval European smithing techniques, reinventing the details of Japanese metallurgy is no easy task.

Except this isn't medieval western Europe. This is an actual factual fantasy world with magic and spirits. These are literal dwarves whose entire species is genetically and culturally coded for smiting. And it wasn't that it was challenging due to a difference in technique, but possible. A former Dwarven king with all the resources available to the throne was never able to successfully recreate the Katanna in his entire life, and it has been established that Dwarves are a long lived species. Over the course of generations of humans the dwarves just couldn't figure out how to make this one type of blade bespite being a literal species of blacksmiths and having the means to all the best materials. We learn that the king being unable to forge a katanna has become so legendary, that they have to be cautious about how they let people know about the opportunity to learn how to forge one otherwise there'd be a bloodbath over who gets to go.

It's exaggeration far beyond the suspension of disbelief. And it's fine. A Japanese person is more than in their right to write a Japanese story (manga/web novel) where Japanese swords are this enigmatic piece of metal work.

 

[Tension]

I had forgotten the dwarf dude became a king.

 

[Nolzi]

Katanas are no harder to forge than any other sword.

How dare you besmirch the ultimate glorious nippon weapon

 

[Daremo]

Expecting that someone can reverse engineer not just the appearance but the properties and feel of a katana, or pretty much anything other than the simplest of swords, from just one example, is asking a bit much, both in the story and in these comments.

 

[AlphaN3RDsIgMa]

Everyone arguing over the quality of the katana or the material or the forging...

Y'all are missing the real problem. Katanas were made the way they were to deal with a resource shortage. If ya don't have enough steel to make half decent swords in bulk, you also don't have enough steel to make plate armor. The katana wasn't made to deal with anything more than reinforced fabrics, wood and the occasional small steel plate.

With the clear abundance of materials on the mainland, katanas would be rendered virtually useless against anyone with even basic half plate and a shield. The things don't even have proper cross or hand guards.

It's not just the materials and forging methods that are objectively worse, there is virtually no use case unless you are fighting barely armored enemies that lack any offensive means with even slight reach. This is a tool to cut down peasants, not something to slay beasts or wage a proper war with.

 

[Chrono]

Jeez people, I know Katana glazing is kinda silly, but the reverse is honestly more annoying now. It's the whole "thing, Japan" over-correction that's stupid as fuck.

Are Katanas the best swords in the world? No.
Were they the best in Japan during the time they were most used? Yes.
Are they the most complex thing in the world? No.
Are they a product of some pretty neat engineering? Yes.

tl;dr Katanas are still cool, no need to pretend they aren't just because the Japanese are really proud of it. Shit on the Japanese for other shitty tropes instead.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

It's not just the materials and forging methods that are objectively worse, there is virtually no use case unless you are fighting barely armored enemies that lack any offensive means with even slight reach. This is a tool to cut down peasants, not something to slay beasts or wage a proper war with.

This is massively exaggerated. As weapons, Katanas are on the same level as the Scimitars of the middle-east or the Dao of China. All were popular curve bladed weapons designed to face opponents armored in scale, chain and plated mail equivalent armors.

The deal with Katanas is never their performance, but always the way the forging techniques got similar performance out of lower quality materials.

 

[DIMOHA25]

But imagine trying to reverse-engineer it with only the end result and no analytical tools beyond your own eyes and maybe some magnifying glasses.

These are supposed master craftsmen, they'd have TONS of analytical tools. For metal hardness, springiness, maybe even carbon content. This is just an inherently dumb side plot.

 

[Bloddrake]

Everyone arguing over the quality of the katana or the material or the forging...

Y'all are missing the real problem. Katanas were made the way they were to deal with a resource shortage. If ya don't have enough steel to make half decent swords in bulk, you also don't have enough steel to make plate armor. The katana wasn't made to deal with anything more than reinforced fabrics, wood and the occasional small steel plate.

With the clear abundance of materials on the mainland, katanas would be rendered virtually useless against anyone with even basic half plate and a shield. The things don't even have proper cross or hand guards.

It's not just the materials and forging methods that are objectively worse, there is virtually no use case unless you are fighting barely armored enemies that lack any offensive means with even slight reach. This is a tool to cut down peasants, not something to slay beasts or wage a proper war with.

Who doesn't want a tool to cut down unarmed peasants? But all jokes aside, the sword is a sidearm to the bow. And wealthy samurai carried two, either a long and and a short or two long ones, in case the first one broke lol. Even they knew their swords were brittle.

 

[PerfectDeath]

We're really about to go on a multi-month arc on glazing the ever living crap out of glorious nippon 1000-fold forging technique using crappy iron sand. This whole technique was because the steel quality they had was shit and it was to make the material more homogeneous not because it magically made super steel

My own head canon would be that the Dwarf gas light himself into thinking it was some super fancy steel and process.
When we look at Japanese blacksmithing behind things like the katana there was a period in Europe as an example where layering two types of steel (a soft and hard) but were phased out because they had better access to higher quality iron. It is still impressive that the Japanese smiths got so good at it.
It does remind me of Damascus steel and how more recently we've been learning that it was made through a process that semi-melted the iron since they could not get their smelting temperature high enough, which likely gave it that unique pattern.
But it is hilarious that this story has gas light the dwarves into importing iron sand!

 

[Kathartes]

Meh, at this point I found the whole katana debate even more obnoxious than the authors who glazed it. Just the same arguments every single time, like a broken machine.