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[blazing_boz]

@Ren_1778

Wow this is a really long message of you just make excuse and supporting rape- it doesn’t matter the reason or the time period. The father forced them to get marry but he didn’t stand over the bed with a gun or sword to them and tell them to have sex did he ? Not to mention putting fake blood on the sheets is possible if you some critical skills for half a second 🙃 , their are plenty of ways to just 'prove' fake sexual acts if he was that scared but didn't want to really hurt her. His circumstance don't change what he did. In addition, multiple people can be abusive the father's abuse doesn't cancel out the husband its not a abuse contest.

Your just a rapist apologist.

The time period doesn’t change what rape is

Time period doesn’t change what pedophilia- murder or slavery is. Also pretending that human being’s are stupid and suddenly don’t know that their actions are wrong and abusive because "human rights are new" and ignorant logic. People don’t like to be in any of this situation and the fact that people have been fighting, advocating and getting revenge on others that abused for centuries makes this pretty self-evident. You are inequitably advocating for sexual assault of woman, this is amazingly deranged and misogynist ideology 😊.People not having the language to name their abuse, or the language changing over time doesn’t what happened. legality doesn't change reality mate, modern protection don't erase pass violence. 🙄

Also if you want to use historical time periods to excuse your action[and Rif the rapist !], you’d still be wrong because men were allowed to say 'no' sex. There are some pretty famous cases like, the finally King Louie of France that did not ‘consummate’ his marriage his 7 years. Or Peter the 3rd of Russian who openly disdained and rejected his wife, as well as a kings that were highly speculated to be gay. The laws in these patriarchal countries were purposely misogynistic and were purposefully not in a woman's favor. Also "hymen or virginity check" don't actual reveal if someone is a virgin or not and have proven in the modern day to be false. This point should be made even more obvious to the fact that the father and maid tell her to be submissive pre-bedding chamber[which i listed in my first post]. They wouldn't be reinforcing reiterating that she couldn't say no if the man didn't have an option.
So "

Not carrying the deed out can mean death, and it’s not like he’s the one who’s posing the threat.

is a false statement.

he has an inferiority complex and thinks he’s undeserving of her, but he doesn’t want to go back on their marriage vows so he tries his best to make her comfortable.

So what ? Your still being rapist sympathizer, who thinks because a man feels bad he's not a rapist. This whole paragraph is just making excuse for him, Amazing inhuman logic.

I don’t have a hobby of rationalizing rape so that’s not what I’m doing.

clearly you do- among-st your historical inaccurate facts, half of this essay is just about his personalty. Sorry fiend, when the 'poor sad male lead feels bad owo' it doesn't absolve him of rape.
------*
------ some fun bonus facts
In fact its amazing that you even bothered to use history to excuse the fact he is definitely a rapist because history will prove you wrong in additional ways so your

Unfortunately for us, this is set in medieval Europe and clearly neither of them had been in a position to say no because this marriage works in her family’s favour.

a.k.a "he had no choice but to rape her”. First of all this is a story and writer choose how realistic or unrealistic they want their misogynistic world to be. This isn’t the holy bible that magic-ed into existence . Therefor the human writers is fully responsible for the words the write and how oppressive they want their world to be.

Next- being conscripted give him a lot of options. Soldiers defect during war’s all the time and soldiers and slave/serf would often use wars as an amble opportunity escape a territory they didn’t like. Especial the further back you go in history, because it’s easier to lose track of people. Their were sever punishments for people that got caught doing this but, he’s a duke-to-be now and he has much more option then a slave or a lowly knight that i s a deserter . Like sending his soldiers into battle and staying away safely to ‘strategize’ if so choose. He is now the son of the duke, that means he gets a hefty dower or bride price. Women wouldn’t not be able to gain property in their name for centuries . . . the inheritance of Max is his take and do with as he please. He doesn’t need to be a noble to know this that how the system worked. If you’re going to use the “it’s the time period excuse” don’t cherry pick out the ones that support your rapist advocate logic maybe ? 😊 Unfortunately for your logic he can do a lot. In the patriarchal society the story is set in, he still has more options then her.

 

[Ren_1778]

@blazing_boz Look here, I’m not sure what your goal is—but you’re absolutely right when you say half my comment is just about his personality. I’m glad that’s how it seemed because that’s my intention.

I thought it was self-explanatory so I didn’t bother to point out, but did I need to say that the story setting is set in but not a complete historical reference? It is narrated in the story that the law in their world invalidates marriage that is not consummated on the wedding night, so that’s how it is in-universe. Simple. Slapping historical examples from our timeline doesn’t really support the argument. Also, I probably wasn’t clear enough that when I say he’s a “gentleman” and that he tries to “make her comfortable”—I’m in no way referring to their s*x. It’s just a little unfortunate how all you’re thinking about is that.

I certainly don’t have a hobby of analysing people’s sexual intercourse. And no I never said he should be forgiven because he felt bad about the rape, on a fundamental level that I don’t think he ever considered feeling bad about it since he’s still unaware of her circumstances. When I say he’s unaware of her abusive background, I meant to say he was unaware that his question posed as a threat that “if we don’t do it, then you can go back and receive your father’s cane”—leaving her with essentially no viable options. I say this again, this marriage works in her (father’s) favour, not his. At this point he’s already Lord of Anatol and he has his own estate, you could argue he’s that desperate for more inheritance, but his incentive behind accepting the marriage deal is a whole seperate matter and that’s spoilers so I won’t say much here.

Anyway if your goal is to establish guilt of rape on the ML, let’s just say it’s easily done with the fact that the FL doesn’t have the capacity to give free consent. My point all along has been that the lack of details in the adaptation doesn’t help with this plot that is already overplayed with misunderstandings. I can tell from your comment that you’ve probably dealt with a lot of people on this topic, hence why you ended up over-interpreting my very simple comment about the nature of one character. In all honesty, our focuses seem to be very different so this is not going to be a fruitful conversation. I’m open to taking in opinions, and I especially appreciate your well-informed references, but for your sanity maybe we should stop before my “ignorance” pisses you off further.

 

[blazing_boz]

@Ren_1778
first to quote you Ren

I think my intention was pretty clear you said in your final paragraph
“I don’t have a hobby of rationalising rape so that’s not what I’m doing.”

I mentioned his personality, because you mentioned in your rapist apology that you weren't making excuse, can’t remember your own words ? you contradict yourself. Self deflecting doesn't work as well when you words have been recorded in the chat. Its called an example, cited directly from the source

Ren:

Slapping historical examples from our timeline doesn’t really support the argument.

Well you be a hypocrite considering your own post use the argument in your first and second paragraph. I guess its hard to even use your very own logic in a discussion huh ?

Ren"

“Unfortunately for us, this is set in medieval Europe and clearly neither of them had been in a position to say no because this marriage works in her family’s favour.”
“We always seem to be taking human rights for granted, remember: human rights is a privilege of the modern age. Back then people had no choice but to sacrifice their rights if it meant survival.”

Sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend that me directly quoting what your saying is a “misinterpretation”. I made it pretty clear in my original post that I was talking if the ML was a rapist or not/and that the defense of his action was a rapist apology. The clue is in that its in the first words of my message

Quoting myself

“Jesus christ this is such a rapist apologist statement. Legally being able to rape a woman is still rape.”

Again , I guess you can pretend you have zero reading comprehension skills and can't retain the information in the first paragraph of the initial very first message
that's recorded in the chat so you can look at it. If feigning ignorance about contradicting your own self and avoid in actually criticism of the very obvious topic of rape.
what ever logical gymnastics to make yourself seem right I guess. 😉

 

[Ren_1778]

@blazing_boz Good grief, where do I even start to reply this. This is clearly a flame you started when you decided to ping me, I never intended to continue whatever rape debate you started. You’re somehow getting triggered because you’re quoting me out of the wrong context. I keep saying this and let me break it down very simply since you seem to be missing my point: rape or not is not my argument—without the details, please don’t hate the ML yet. That’s literally it.

Not sure what contradiction you’re talking about, in the first place it’s because you’re deadset on the fact that I’m advocating rape that all of my words seem that way to you. I said it’s SET in medieval Europe, but it’s not historically accurate—meaning the law is as narrated in the story, hence wedding night consummation is relevant from an in-universe standpoint. Cultural values from medieval Europe can be referenced, but you can’t use our timeline’s examples to invalidate the law that they explicitly set up in their timeline. That’s literally it. I’m not trying to attack you or take back my words.

And nuh-uh, I get your point so I’m not arguing that he has a defence for raping her. But I still stand by my point that given the circumstances, the father has the bigger blame. Her fear stems from her abuse, she didn’t have a single clue what sexual intercourse endorsed so she was shocked by every action he took. It was honestly one of the saddest sm*t scenes because of how confused she was, but he was under a wrong (but reasonable given the circumstances) belief that her reluctance came from the idea that he’s a “lowly commoner”—that’s what he meant by “endure it” because it’s too late to be worrying about nobility pride now that the deal’s been set in place. You could preach to me about how circumstances reveals the person, but I don’t care for blameless characters. He still treats her carefully and respects her condition, which is why he’s different from a lot of other KR MLs (in case this leads to a misunderstanding again, I’m not only talking about how they behave on bed—he’s like this consistently). I’m just slightly disappointed at how the adaptation omitted the details, leaving room for readers to fill in their own fantasies about how cruel he must have been.

Anyway I see that you probably don’t give a damn about whatever I’m saying, it was pretty interesting reading your comments though it probably wasn’t for you. I already acknowledged that you’ve accomplished what you set out to do if all you want is to establish rape on the ML’s part. Your point is clear, sorry if mine wasn’t. I love both characters a lot and it’s frustrating how they both seem to have a wrong impression of each other—but it’s nice how they still treat each other right despite that. One day they’ll both find out how much they’ve hurt the other unknowingly, and they can feel guilty all they want when that happens. I’m not trying to dismiss the FL’s trauma (although it didn’t exactly traumatise her—and yes I know trauma isn’t a factor to establish rape) but I love the development this story goes through. If you don’t like it, okay sure, it’s your prerogative. I’ve said my piece.

Unlike you I really don’t enjoy picking fights with strangers, I just want to come to an understanding. But if that’s not possible, let me just compromise. Are you happy as long as I call myself a rapist apologist? Not sure what you gain from having more of those people in the world, but if that settles things then I’m cool. I’m sure neither of us are so free for this.

 

[junmimil]

I SEE THAT BLUSH BOI. You gotta tell her! Still angry for the way they handled the wedding night tho. I'm glad it's not too much detailed like the novel.
We all know why he did that tho 😢

Spoiler

He already loves her from the start. They both actually feel inferior to each other.

 

[MMagni]

he's toxic af & pretty much raped her but like i'm sorry i cannot stop laughing at how he swears it's like a 12 year old who just learned what fuck meant like

 

[Lunaria_001602]

loooool. everyone who haven't read the novel will be definitely thrown off by this smut scene, for the way it was portrayed. He's definitely rough as a character, keeping in mind that he's one, if not the strongest, knight in the entire country. BUT. I read the novel, so I can assure you guys that he's one of the sweetest and most gentleman ML I have ever seen. especially for a smut one. He's not the toxic one at all. It was the FM's father, who's toxic af. Just bear with it guys. their situation and interaction will get better soon after the whole misunderstanding between them are cleared. If you guys can't wait, or is too messed up with the chapters right now, just read the novel.

 

[Meri08]

Yes! Finally out of that trash place!
Does her stutter ever go away? Or does she keep it?
She's such a sweet girl. I can't believe her father beats her.

 

[Lovelyspacepanda]

@Ren_1778

Thank for your comments, I was confused why he did it with her then leave the next day and it makes sense it's bc if not their marriage would be "nulled"
So I like the input you added

belief that her reluctance came from the idea that he’s a “lowly commoner”—that’s what he meant by “endure it” because it’s too late to be worrying about nobility pride now that the deal’s been set in place

It really give us what really happening & their thoughts, I think I should read the novel to understand the characters & their thoughts more better, thank you❤
I curious what other things I missed if it wasn't for your comments

 

[D4N43]

The “you think I’m a monster” and the slight blush right after did it for me 😍

 

[arnetta]

HE BLUSHED

 

[dawned]

젠장 should be translated to damn (it) as opposed to f*ck
Totally changes the impression of the character

 

[Marielovesmanga]

Guys, this comic is so good!!! That man...so hawt.

 

[Hayako22]

Jesus, this manhwa is rough. 😮

Anyway, thank you for the translating! 😊

 

[camlakorns]

how many times did this guy say fuck?

 

[NgọcTrai]

Ugh my heart hurts for her 😭

 

[Aliceteria]

Good... save her from her sh*tty father. He blamed her about she can only talk shuttering... but shy people like her must given courage or given change to make her more confidence about herself. If you always oppressed her like that, she wont able to fixed that. What an idiot father, his plan all messed up and blamed it all to his own daughter.

 

[unniechan]

i hate her father so much, he's such a terrible dad. bc of his teaching/bad parenting she can't say no, give her consent, etc .