1082743

[gomichandesu]

@CrystaI
You see how my name is green? I am a group leader lmfao
Sniping isn't a thing, there is NOTHING stopping cafe scans from continuing. You can have 2 groups doing the same series at the same time. Cafe scans has no right to say "ONLY US CAN DO THIS NOBODY ELSE" Just as much as the so called "sniper" has any right to say "THIS IS MINE NOW NOBODY ELSE"

How would you feel if you and other people had put in work for the chapter only to have another group just upload it, invalidating your efforts and those of your teammates?

perfectly fine, because again, nothing about that invalidates our work and effort. You're scanning for fun, not because its your job. So what if someone else has the same hobby as you. I can put out my chapter, they can put out theres. If readers like someone else's version better cool. If you like cafe scans version, then don't read anyone else's. Its really that simple.
Like for real, go upload the next Inubaka chapter. Won't stop me from uploading my own chapter when it's finished.

 

[CrystaI]

@gomichandesu lol aight that's my miss; tho like I said, it was a guess based off what was said, nothing more.
Sniping is very much a thing. You are right in that nothing is stopping either group from continuing, that no group has any right to say as much, but like I said, it's basic etiquette. You're looking at it from a technical standpoint. And sincerely, good for you that you can look at being sniped that way, because it's not quite the same standpoint that everyone can assume. You say that nothing about another group uploading the same chapter invalidates your group's work and effort—to which I ask, would you as a reader read the same chapter twice? If both versions get the same support, fine. But knowing most readers, they'll just support the faster release regardless of quality. It's just sad to see people preferring speed over quality. Not to shame anyone starting out and doesn't have god-tier skills or experience, but just saying.
FYI, I didn't read this version.

Of course it's fine for people to have the same hobby as you, this site is literally filled with thousands of scan groups. But why would you do a series that is consistently being done by an active group (regular schedule notwithstanding) when there are so many series out there unscanlated/dropped? Why not just do a series where you're not vying with another group for releases?

Edit: so I checked out your group, and I'd say that being a one-man team like yourself, it's certainly easier to take the easy-going stance. I'm not saying your points is invalid because of that. In fact, if I was a one-man team without much experience, I'd most certainly assume a similar, if not same stance as yours. FYI, though, sniping is not just another group working the same series. The situation described in your bio (something along the lines of "if anyone wants to snipe, go ahead, hit me up and I'll gladly hand you the raws") is not sniping. You're giving them consent, which makes it more that you're trusting that said series is left in good hands. Sniping is when Group B releases projects that Group A is working on without Group A's notification/awareness. Scanlation is a hobby, it isn't a job, this can't be taken onto legal grounds; but as I've stressed, it is simply common etiquette. The world would be much nicer if everyone had basic etiquette. And no, Cafe Scans didn't get any sort of message over this particular releast(unlike when a similar incident happened with chap 92). You may think that I'm making a mountain out of molehill, to which again I congratulate you on the mental higher ground you're on regarding this sort of thing, but not everyone is the same.

 

[gomichandesu]

@Crystal
Its a stupid outdated etiquette then, if it was even a thing that everyone agreed to abide by in the first place (it wasn't)

to which I ask, would you as a reader read the same chapter twice?

Yeah, I typically do read multiple groups chapters if there is 2 groups doing it. Especially when one is super slow and I forget what happened by the time the slower group updates.

It's just sad to see people preferring speed over quality.

Different folks different strokes. Me personally, I think the elitism in the manga community is what's sad. I've seen so many times groups bully the shit out of another group daring to step on their terf, despite not uploading in months, calling their work crap when in all honesty, there's no real difference other than a different choice in phrasing. There is nothing wrong with this chapter. Its done very well imo, if it's not riddled with typos who gives a shit if you translated a sentence slightly differently. And why do you care if people prefer speed over quality, especially when there's groups doing both. You can just ignore the speed releases and read the quality ones if you hate it that much, and the ones who prefer the speed can read what they like too. Literally everybody wins in this situation.

Why not just do a series where you're not vying with another group for releases?

Because they aint interested in another series. Why translate shit that doesn't interest you just because nobody else is?


I'll admit, I've never been a part of a large scale group (mostly because again, the elitism in it all. I'm not gonna audition to give people my free time out of the goodness of my heart just because they think you have to have 10 years experience to translate a shitty jump comic. I'm simply not that invested to pretend like scan groups are a legitimate origination for free.) but I've always stood firm it's childish to think you have any claim on something you're pirating and not giving back to the real author of the work who actually has rights to the series. Because that's what we all are, we're pirates. No sugar coating it, thats why we can't really whine when another pirate wants to pirate the same stuff we're pirating. There is no "etiquette" in piracy, we're all doing something wrong to begin with.

but while I'm at it, the 6 month thing is a ridiculously long "standard". If you aren't uploading at least once a month, you're slow and I don't really blame anyone for putting something out faster. Especially so when you're a real "group" with many people working on it. If it takes you that long to put out "good" quality, then fine. Take as long as you need, but not everyone really cares to have publication tier quality. As you said, most of us are fine settling for no typos and raws without watermarks. Which is a very low hurdle to make.
And yes, that is still true with myself, when I fail to put out a monthly release. I wouldn't blame an Inubaka fan for wanting to take my "job" because I was doing it too slowly. Even if I was always like that from the get go about my projects. Because if I were truly that invested in doing this, I would just work harder to release faster.


Anyway, fact remains MD doesn't believe in sniping, there's no rule against it, and if you think it's rude to do so that's valid too,
but that's just like, your opinion man

 

[CrystaI]

@gomichandesu

Its a stupid outdated etiquette then, if it was even a thing that everyone agreed to abide by in the first place (it wasn't)

It... actually makes a lot of sense. At the very least, even if the 6 month thing was too long, a simple message about it wouldn't hurt. You can't tell me you can upload an entire chapter but not send a single message out of basic courtesy. Galaxy Scans is clearly not a newbie group (oldest update 2 years ago) and barring GB, they have 85 other series. Eighty-five. They definitely don't lack any content on their repertoire. This is also to refute

Because they aint interested in another series. Why translate shit that doesn't interest you just because nobody else is?

. You're telling me they suddenly lost interest in all other series? Then how about actually joining the group that's actually already working on it to help out?

Yeah, I typically do read multiple groups chapters if there is 2 groups doing it.

Well then, good on you.

Especially when one is super slow and I forget what happened by the time the slower group updates.

If this was any other series with a more stringent continuity, it'll be a fair point. But GB specifically is a series where it doesn't matter all that much if you're reading out of order.

Different folks different strokes. Me personally, I think the elitism in the manga community is what's sad. I've seen so many times groups bully the shit out of another group daring to step on their terf, despite not uploading in months, calling their work crap when in all honesty, there's no real difference other than a different choice in phrasing. There is nothing wrong with this chapter. Its done very well imo, if it's not riddled with typos who gives a shit if you translated a sentence slightly differently.

Elitism is sad, and I personally avoid such people in the community. I don't really get why you brought this up though, because I'm not shaming them for lack of quality, but for sniping a series that already has a dedicated team working on it. Like I said in my earlier comment, I'm not ever shaming people for not having, as you say, 10 years of experience.

And why do you care if people prefer speed over quality, especially when there's groups doing both. You can just ignore the speed releases and read the quality ones if you hate it that much, and the ones who prefer the speed can read what they like too. Literally everybody wins in this situation.

I am, actually. Like I said, I haven't touched this chapter in terms of the content. I beg to differ on the "everybody wins in this situation" view though. It sounds to me as if you're considering things from the readers' perspective on this, rather than how other scans people might feel differently from you in the same situation.

I'm simply not that invested to pretend like scan groups are a legitimate origination for free. Because that's what we all are, we're pirates. No sugar coating it, thats why we can't really whine when another pirate wants to pirate the same stuff we're pirating. There is no "etiquette" in piracy, we're all doing something wrong to begin with.

Yes, this is illegal territory. I've never said otherwise. But just because it's a lawless land doesn't mean there aren't codes of conduct to abide by. To quote another friend who's also in the scans field, "Also, yes, in such a grey area, where no rule is technically valid, at least basic etiquette should exist."
Even the newbie group who did ch92 before Cafe Scans had the common decency and courtesy to message Cafe Scans about it prior to release, and kept their promise about not doing other chapters. On the other hand, as mentioned above, Galaxy Scans is not a newbie group. Sniping drama is unfortunately constant in MD.

Anyway, fact remains MD doesn't believe in sniping, there's no rule against it

There isn't, because MD staff can't be expected to go around putting out the countless fires caused by sniping drama. MD exists as a platform, MD staff are here to maintain the platform, but not to be peacemakers. Which is fair to them.

I wouldn't blame an Inubaka fan for wanting to take my "job" because I was doing it too slowly. Even if I was always like that from the get go about my projects. Because if I were truly that invested in doing this, I would just work harder to release faster.

Valid point, but also shortsighted and honestly, quite privileged. Yes, if there are people who are able to release faster, then alright, good on them. But it's not like the people originally working on it don't have a life, don't have busy times when they can't upload as frequently as they would like.

I'm sure there's a reason why you personally work on series near completion, that no other group is doing. That may be the entire purpose of how you started scans, which is not necessarily the same as those of other groups. I'd like to highlight again, that they have 85 other series. Again, whether or not they're all completed or not is not the issue, but clearly they are able to find other series in their field of interest to work on.

but that's just like, your opinion man

Not quite interested in the youtube link you've put into these words, but alright, we can agree to disagree. The point of me posting the comment was to ask Galaxy Scans about this, not so much to spark a debate about it necessarily.
I appreciate, however, the general calm manner with which you've opted to reply with.

 

[gomichandesu]

@Crystal

a simple message about it wouldn't hurt

They don't need to ask permission to do a series, thats what I'm saying. It's pointless to message a group asking their blessing to translate a manga they have no rights to themselves.

You're telling me they suddenly lost interest in all other series

was speakin generally, but yeah. Its possible to be burnt out on series. Or not ever intending to finish them in the first place. Having 85 series doesn't mean you ever intended to go all the way with them. Or that you can't have lost interest in them along the way.

I don't really get why you brought this up though

Because thats what the crux of the "sniping" debate is. People whining about speed scanners because "muh quality" when quality is just an excuse really. The quality is just fine, groups who cry about sniping just want a reason to have a monopoly on a series (usually because they're taking money in the form of pateron and the like.) Thats where the elitism comes in, it creates this mentality of you have to have incredible quality or you're not valid.

rather than how other scans people might feel differently from you in the same situation.

And again, I really think groups who cry about someone else doing the exact same thing they're doing are childish and their feelings are stupid. There is literally nothing stopping them from uploading their own work. Getting beaten to the punch should not bother them at all, and if it does they need to reflect on why they're doing this in the first place. Might as well just translate for yourself then and not upload it at all.

at least basic etiquette should exist

again, who says that is the basic etiquette, you? To reiterate The Dude (Which was that link lol), that's just like your opinion man. I don't see any etiquette in asking someone who holds no rights over the series permission to do the exact same thing they're doing. It's stupid. Your opinion is valid, but its not the law. And thats what I'm taking issue with, you hostilely coming on to their work (without even reading it) and demanding they go ask permission to scanslate just because you personally think it's "rude" is ridiculous. Especially when there's no rule about it on MD.

Sniping drama is unfortunately constant in MD.

MD staff can't be expected to go around putting out the countless fires caused by sniping drama

case and point about how this etiquette you're talking about is very debated and not universal. Not all believe this is the proper "etiquette". To me it feels more like gate keeping.

Privileged

lol

But it's not like the people originally working on it don't have a life, don't have busy times when they can't upload as frequently as they would like.

I work full time too yo. In retail at that. For a whoppin 8/hr. Where holiday hell is already among us. I get people not wanting to put too much time and effort into a hobby they're doing for free (its almost as if that's my entire group's philosophy on mangos lol.) If you can't keep up, fine. Still upload your stuff, you're doing this for fun are you not? So are the speed scanners. They want to have fun with their hobbies too. If someone beating you to the punch makes it not fun for you anymore, then maybe its time to find a new hobby?

I'm sure there's a reason why you personally work on series near completion, that no other group is doing.

cuz I don't have the patience or attention span to work on shit that is too long (Inubaka was already more than I wanted to chew but nobody was gonna do that thing anyway)
And also because I don't want to have to have this very same argument a billion times bc weirdo groups on MD will literally send the attack dogs out if you try and share their project. Otherwise yes, I would totally have "sniped" some works that were moving too slowly for my taste. Because again, I do this for fun and for my own personal practice in Japanese. I share because I want to, and have just as much of a right to do as anyone else on the internet pirating manga.

The point of me posting the comment was to ask Galaxy Scans about this

I get it, the point of my reply was to say don't attack other groups for doing what they're allowed to do and demanding someone go ask permission from someone who doesn't even have the rights to grant or deny permission is a junk move in my eyes yo.

I appreciate, however, the general calm manner with which you've opted to reply with.

same here, I'm not trying to come across as inherently antagonistic, it was just the phrasing you used made it seem like this was a rule or law, when it really just is an opinion where both sides have some valid and some loose arguments. I wanted Galaxy Scans (and other readers who dare go through these walls of text) to know that there are no inherent rules about who can and cannot scan something. You don't need permission from anyone to do so, and if you did it would be from the author/publisher lol. Whether or not it's a "dick move" is up for debate, but it's not necessary in the slightest.

anywho, before this gets any further into 5.1.6 territory, this will be my last public comment on this, but feel free to DM me if you'd like. Though I think we've both talked in circles a bit and I agree we're likely to just agree to disagree.

 

[CrystaI]

@gomichandesu
To keep it from being another wall of text, 2 main things I just wanted to leave here in the thread before it does get into 5.1.6 territory.
1. It was never my intention to be hostile, nor to demand that they get "permission" from any other group. I'm not expecting them to take it down or anything because of my comment. I asked out of curiosity, out of the spirit of the benefit of the doubt to hopefully see their side of the story rather than to immediately go "you snipers, you're bad."
2. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

 

[Joditc]

Thanks for the update!😊

 

[Shyfemalelead]

Personally I’m happy for galaxy degen to update this way if it means the updates come out quicker or that it gives cafe scans a nudge to also update. In the end it’s a fan-scan, it’s not that serious. Also I’ve seen some scan teams drop a series without even saying they dropped it so people are waiting 3 years for an update that would never come.

Thanks galaxy degen team for this chapter’s release.

 

[serpentilewitch]

@Crystal lmao, that's the most retarded shit I've ever heard—and that is 100% NOT the way it works! 😂😂😂 @gomichandesu already explained it to you so make sure you read her reply.

@gomichandesu Imagine thinking you're the only one allowed to knit sweaters and give them away as presents to your friends. This shit is absolutely peak. Great explanation, btw. Not sure how we live in a world where this needs to be fucking explained but here we are.