872383
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Group Leader
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2019
- Messages
- 57
@Kurapika_89 : First of all, permit me to thank you SO MUCH for being kind to me. And for reading Peony Elegy. The first comment of yours made me so excited. Someone actually reads and cares!
You are very right to call me out on using Western concepts to judge happenings that pertain to a period in time that has nothing to do with the West or Late Modernity. I do my best not to pass judgments on any characters, so to say. Who am I to criticize the value systems and ethical standards of countries that were a few centuries in advance on my own people?! I mean, while Ancient China was studying astronomy and developing the fundamentals of an impressive medical system, my people were wearing animal skins and wiping pig butt (we wiped pig butt so well that while the rest of Europe was dying from bubonic plague, we were thriving and living marvellously well, though we weren't even separate from that Valley of Tears by defined borders). But at the same time, I admit that what triggers me in real life also triggers me in this story. I am torn between the knowledge that in Ancient China and Korea, parents and children had defined roles and were asked to live up to certain expectations. If they were not able to do so, they were breaking the very social laws that kept them together. And between the fact that often, congenital defects are accompanied with developmental problems. My mind is battling with my emotions. The Imperial Palace in Ancient China was a luxurious prison with a multitude of torture chambers. Brothers killed brothers, sometimes raped sisters. Mothers killed children. And fathers faced their own progeny in a battle for power. And if you could not survive by your own, then maybe it was for the best that you died. This was how they lived. And they accepted this lifestyle. Kill or be killed. So who the heck am I to bring my sheltered-little-girl ideals into their world?! And yet, I just feel pain at seeing them being swallowed up by blood and tears. Especially Bongrim. That poor child has nothing to commend himself. Nothing at all. No cuteness, no special abilities (at least, according to Chief Advisor Jang) and now, he doesn't even have his maternal family's backing.
And the freakin' Emperor. I agree with you when you say that one does not know which end is up and which down with that man. He isn't the unreasonable, biased Emperor of Chinese Dramas, light novels and webcomics. He is as cold as mountain water, knows when to advance and when to retreat. He does not push anyone into a corner, does not bestow his favor without reasons to back it. He even has a lot of charisma, with that benevolent face of his and his ability to speak to the emotions of those who surround him. The only person who seems to know him inside out would be the Empress Consort. She can go as far as to trigger a reaction out of him. Which makes her all the more dangerous. She is his feminine counterpart. And thus, it is obvious that the chess game is played between the two of them. What the place of the other characters in this game is, I do not know. For now, we can only hypothesize what his feelings towards his women and offspring are. But I agree that he does not seem to be the type to be swooned by Longhee's beauty and charm (she IS a very beautiful and YOUNG woman).
Now about Chapter 4. I will start with my Consort Deok. I am absolutely not ashamed to say that I am biased. Consort Deok and Bongrim are exactly the types of characters who will get no sympathy whatsoever from the readers, thus I will be giving them ALL of my sympathy and defend them at every turn. Because that is what Intorno would want me to do. As you have noticed, Intorno is a very nuanced artist. She dislikes intellectual shortcuts very much.
We had a five-year fast-forward. And Consort Deok only started moving five years after Longhee was made consort. So, during those previous five years, she kept a low profile, was up to something else (what? Who would know? But you can easily guess and my guess is not "plotting"). So what made her move all of a sudden, and as Consort Sung said, come up with such a crude plan? For one, we see she wants to kill three birds with one stone. Use Consort Sung to rid herself of Longhee while having Consort Sung take the fall. And also weaken Empress Consort by removing one of her pawns, not realizing that Empress Consort has been waiting for her to move for the last five years. She is after power. But why NOW?!
Five years ago, Sogeo was born. Bongrim was fives years old at that time. While Un was seven. And Soe, ten. Now, Sogeo is five, Bongrim ten, Un twelve. And Soe fifteen. Soe has entered marriage age. We remember in Chapter 3 that as soon as Empress Consort Sookjung mentioned having Soe married off, Consort Deok backed off and cowered with her tail between her legs. Consort Deok is moving to grasp power to be able to influence the Emperor where Soe's marriage is concerned, this is my personal opinion. The Emperor has made it quite clear that he favors Longhee in a very flabbergasting manner. Make a tribute, no lower than a slave, a concubine, let her give birth to the First Imperial Prince (this is a high position of its own, though the boy may not be a legitimate son), make her a consort (thus legitimizing her children). So Longhee has the biggest part of power among the consorts and Consort Deok is left sharing what remains with Consort Sung. But if the young beauties, Longhee and Consort Sung, were removed, only Consort Deok and Sookjung would be left at the higher positions of power. As Consort Sung said, Consort Deok is at the very least beautiful and most probably does not grate on the Emperor's nerves as much as Empress Consort Sookjung does. Her plan is very much that of a palace woman. Have Longhee and Consort Sung kick up a dust, cause a riot Empress Consort Sookjung will need to take care of while Consort Deok ingratiates herself with the Emperor and wrenches Soe's salvation out of his grasp (or any other part of an Emperor's anatomy a woman aims for when she wants something out of him). As the Korean readers said in their comments: "What mother would not do everything she could to protect her child." Would the ends justify the means in this case? To Consort Deok, definitely. I am not saying that plotting against others is the right thing to do. But I do want to understand the motivations behind Consort Deok's actions.
Can we take a moment to applaud both the Emperor and the Empress Consort. I live for the two of them. They are poisonous. Empress Consort Sookjung aiming for the youngest son as to shake Longhee's foundations is impressive. Longhee is the mother of two Imperial Princes. If Empress Consort Sookjung would adopt one of the two, SHE would become the mother of two Imperial Princes. And think about this. On one side she would have Longhee's child to control Longhee with, on the other side if ever the Emperor decided to remove Bongrim one way or another, she would have a spare to raise herself to the position of Empress Dowager. The Empress spoke with envy of the Empress Dowager in chapter 2. Which makes it all the more tragic for Bongrim. So, even his mother has little interest in him? Even she is planning herself a spare? This would not be without a precedent. King Zhuangxiang of Qin, personal name Yiren, was adopted, as an adult in his twenties, by Lady Huayang, his father's main wife. She was a national of Chu, so Yiren went as far as have himself renamed Zichu, meaning "Son of Chu". Why is that of interest? Besides the fact that King Zhuangxiang of Qin was the first Emperor of China's progenitor, it is of no interest whatsoever.
Now this brings us to the Emperor's mother. Why indeed did she not become Empress Dowager? Why did she die before her time? The Korean readers shared a very scary hypothesis with the world. We know Empress Consort decided she wanted to become Empress while admiring the former Empress Consort, who then became Empress Dowager. We know it is not the Emperor's mother. The hypothesis is that the Emperor killed his mother so he could be adopted by the Empress Consort at that time, since the Empress Consort most probably had power and potentially family backing, thus increasing his own chances of becoming Emperor. Empress Consort Sookjung also being a woman coming from a powerful background might have very well uncovered what lied behind the Emperor's birth-mother's death. Which implies that him reminding her of it means that he is threatening her. If she does not tread carefully, she might be the one to end up dead, that seems to be what he is implying.
You know, I feel sorry for Un and Sogeo having Longhee as mother. Longhee is an adorable woman. There is nothing malicious about her. As the Empress Consort mockingly said, she is unambitious. So let me tell you the story of Empress Dowager Lü and Concubine Qi. Emperor Gaozu wanted to make the little Liu Ruyi, Concubine Qi's twelve-year old son, his heir. However he died before he could pass the imperial decree. So Empress Dowager Lü's son became Emperor Hui. Now, Empress Dowager Lü was very much the virtuous type of woman Empress Consort Sookjung tries to be. After Emperor Gaozu's death, she treated his consorts and concubines as per the law and in accordance with the image of virtue she wanted to project. But of course, there always is an exception to confirm the rule. That would be Concubine Qi. Empress Dowager Lü hunted down Liu Ruyi like one does an animal, forcing her own son Emperor Hui to battle against her in an effort to protect his younger brother. Until he couldn't protect him one day. When he was sick in the Emperor's own residence, little Liu Ruyi was poisoned. Now what happened to Concubine Qi? She had her limbs chopped off, her eyes gouged out, ears sliced off, forced to drink a potion that made her mute and then, her crippled body was put in latrines. That poor body was called the "Human Swine" by Empress Dowager Lü. She was proud of herself and thus took Emperor Hui to admire her handiwork. He was so shocked to realize that his mother was such a monster that he gave up on power, never looked into state affairs again and abandoned himself to carnal pleasures.
My point is … Longhee knows the Emperor is planning to make Un his heir. She knows the Empress's son should be the next in line by law. And yet, here she is, calmly eating lunch with her joyful little Songha servants. Not aware AT ALL about what her children are up to and relying on external information to know her own children's whereabouts. We have the Empress Consort locking horns with the Emperor, Consort Deok planning a desperate attempt to pull them all down into hell with her and Consort Sung very much looking like a sly fox who avoids conflict (that is a super power of its own in the Chinese Imperial Palace!). I am not sure how Longhee would be able to help shield Un from virtually anything in the future as the summary implies. However, I can very well see how Un would be stuck with a dangerous mother-child to take care of (and keep out of trouble). The favor a son enjoys is directly proportional to the love bestowed upon a woman by the Emperor. If ever, by some accident, Longhee is tricked into enraging the Emperor, Un can say goodbye to his head, let alone his throne.
You are very right to call me out on using Western concepts to judge happenings that pertain to a period in time that has nothing to do with the West or Late Modernity. I do my best not to pass judgments on any characters, so to say. Who am I to criticize the value systems and ethical standards of countries that were a few centuries in advance on my own people?! I mean, while Ancient China was studying astronomy and developing the fundamentals of an impressive medical system, my people were wearing animal skins and wiping pig butt (we wiped pig butt so well that while the rest of Europe was dying from bubonic plague, we were thriving and living marvellously well, though we weren't even separate from that Valley of Tears by defined borders). But at the same time, I admit that what triggers me in real life also triggers me in this story. I am torn between the knowledge that in Ancient China and Korea, parents and children had defined roles and were asked to live up to certain expectations. If they were not able to do so, they were breaking the very social laws that kept them together. And between the fact that often, congenital defects are accompanied with developmental problems. My mind is battling with my emotions. The Imperial Palace in Ancient China was a luxurious prison with a multitude of torture chambers. Brothers killed brothers, sometimes raped sisters. Mothers killed children. And fathers faced their own progeny in a battle for power. And if you could not survive by your own, then maybe it was for the best that you died. This was how they lived. And they accepted this lifestyle. Kill or be killed. So who the heck am I to bring my sheltered-little-girl ideals into their world?! And yet, I just feel pain at seeing them being swallowed up by blood and tears. Especially Bongrim. That poor child has nothing to commend himself. Nothing at all. No cuteness, no special abilities (at least, according to Chief Advisor Jang) and now, he doesn't even have his maternal family's backing.
And the freakin' Emperor. I agree with you when you say that one does not know which end is up and which down with that man. He isn't the unreasonable, biased Emperor of Chinese Dramas, light novels and webcomics. He is as cold as mountain water, knows when to advance and when to retreat. He does not push anyone into a corner, does not bestow his favor without reasons to back it. He even has a lot of charisma, with that benevolent face of his and his ability to speak to the emotions of those who surround him. The only person who seems to know him inside out would be the Empress Consort. She can go as far as to trigger a reaction out of him. Which makes her all the more dangerous. She is his feminine counterpart. And thus, it is obvious that the chess game is played between the two of them. What the place of the other characters in this game is, I do not know. For now, we can only hypothesize what his feelings towards his women and offspring are. But I agree that he does not seem to be the type to be swooned by Longhee's beauty and charm (she IS a very beautiful and YOUNG woman).
Now about Chapter 4. I will start with my Consort Deok. I am absolutely not ashamed to say that I am biased. Consort Deok and Bongrim are exactly the types of characters who will get no sympathy whatsoever from the readers, thus I will be giving them ALL of my sympathy and defend them at every turn. Because that is what Intorno would want me to do. As you have noticed, Intorno is a very nuanced artist. She dislikes intellectual shortcuts very much.
We had a five-year fast-forward. And Consort Deok only started moving five years after Longhee was made consort. So, during those previous five years, she kept a low profile, was up to something else (what? Who would know? But you can easily guess and my guess is not "plotting"). So what made her move all of a sudden, and as Consort Sung said, come up with such a crude plan? For one, we see she wants to kill three birds with one stone. Use Consort Sung to rid herself of Longhee while having Consort Sung take the fall. And also weaken Empress Consort by removing one of her pawns, not realizing that Empress Consort has been waiting for her to move for the last five years. She is after power. But why NOW?!
Five years ago, Sogeo was born. Bongrim was fives years old at that time. While Un was seven. And Soe, ten. Now, Sogeo is five, Bongrim ten, Un twelve. And Soe fifteen. Soe has entered marriage age. We remember in Chapter 3 that as soon as Empress Consort Sookjung mentioned having Soe married off, Consort Deok backed off and cowered with her tail between her legs. Consort Deok is moving to grasp power to be able to influence the Emperor where Soe's marriage is concerned, this is my personal opinion. The Emperor has made it quite clear that he favors Longhee in a very flabbergasting manner. Make a tribute, no lower than a slave, a concubine, let her give birth to the First Imperial Prince (this is a high position of its own, though the boy may not be a legitimate son), make her a consort (thus legitimizing her children). So Longhee has the biggest part of power among the consorts and Consort Deok is left sharing what remains with Consort Sung. But if the young beauties, Longhee and Consort Sung, were removed, only Consort Deok and Sookjung would be left at the higher positions of power. As Consort Sung said, Consort Deok is at the very least beautiful and most probably does not grate on the Emperor's nerves as much as Empress Consort Sookjung does. Her plan is very much that of a palace woman. Have Longhee and Consort Sung kick up a dust, cause a riot Empress Consort Sookjung will need to take care of while Consort Deok ingratiates herself with the Emperor and wrenches Soe's salvation out of his grasp (or any other part of an Emperor's anatomy a woman aims for when she wants something out of him). As the Korean readers said in their comments: "What mother would not do everything she could to protect her child." Would the ends justify the means in this case? To Consort Deok, definitely. I am not saying that plotting against others is the right thing to do. But I do want to understand the motivations behind Consort Deok's actions.
Can we take a moment to applaud both the Emperor and the Empress Consort. I live for the two of them. They are poisonous. Empress Consort Sookjung aiming for the youngest son as to shake Longhee's foundations is impressive. Longhee is the mother of two Imperial Princes. If Empress Consort Sookjung would adopt one of the two, SHE would become the mother of two Imperial Princes. And think about this. On one side she would have Longhee's child to control Longhee with, on the other side if ever the Emperor decided to remove Bongrim one way or another, she would have a spare to raise herself to the position of Empress Dowager. The Empress spoke with envy of the Empress Dowager in chapter 2. Which makes it all the more tragic for Bongrim. So, even his mother has little interest in him? Even she is planning herself a spare? This would not be without a precedent. King Zhuangxiang of Qin, personal name Yiren, was adopted, as an adult in his twenties, by Lady Huayang, his father's main wife. She was a national of Chu, so Yiren went as far as have himself renamed Zichu, meaning "Son of Chu". Why is that of interest? Besides the fact that King Zhuangxiang of Qin was the first Emperor of China's progenitor, it is of no interest whatsoever.
Now this brings us to the Emperor's mother. Why indeed did she not become Empress Dowager? Why did she die before her time? The Korean readers shared a very scary hypothesis with the world. We know Empress Consort decided she wanted to become Empress while admiring the former Empress Consort, who then became Empress Dowager. We know it is not the Emperor's mother. The hypothesis is that the Emperor killed his mother so he could be adopted by the Empress Consort at that time, since the Empress Consort most probably had power and potentially family backing, thus increasing his own chances of becoming Emperor. Empress Consort Sookjung also being a woman coming from a powerful background might have very well uncovered what lied behind the Emperor's birth-mother's death. Which implies that him reminding her of it means that he is threatening her. If she does not tread carefully, she might be the one to end up dead, that seems to be what he is implying.
You know, I feel sorry for Un and Sogeo having Longhee as mother. Longhee is an adorable woman. There is nothing malicious about her. As the Empress Consort mockingly said, she is unambitious. So let me tell you the story of Empress Dowager Lü and Concubine Qi. Emperor Gaozu wanted to make the little Liu Ruyi, Concubine Qi's twelve-year old son, his heir. However he died before he could pass the imperial decree. So Empress Dowager Lü's son became Emperor Hui. Now, Empress Dowager Lü was very much the virtuous type of woman Empress Consort Sookjung tries to be. After Emperor Gaozu's death, she treated his consorts and concubines as per the law and in accordance with the image of virtue she wanted to project. But of course, there always is an exception to confirm the rule. That would be Concubine Qi. Empress Dowager Lü hunted down Liu Ruyi like one does an animal, forcing her own son Emperor Hui to battle against her in an effort to protect his younger brother. Until he couldn't protect him one day. When he was sick in the Emperor's own residence, little Liu Ruyi was poisoned. Now what happened to Concubine Qi? She had her limbs chopped off, her eyes gouged out, ears sliced off, forced to drink a potion that made her mute and then, her crippled body was put in latrines. That poor body was called the "Human Swine" by Empress Dowager Lü. She was proud of herself and thus took Emperor Hui to admire her handiwork. He was so shocked to realize that his mother was such a monster that he gave up on power, never looked into state affairs again and abandoned himself to carnal pleasures.
My point is … Longhee knows the Emperor is planning to make Un his heir. She knows the Empress's son should be the next in line by law. And yet, here she is, calmly eating lunch with her joyful little Songha servants. Not aware AT ALL about what her children are up to and relying on external information to know her own children's whereabouts. We have the Empress Consort locking horns with the Emperor, Consort Deok planning a desperate attempt to pull them all down into hell with her and Consort Sung very much looking like a sly fox who avoids conflict (that is a super power of its own in the Chinese Imperial Palace!). I am not sure how Longhee would be able to help shield Un from virtually anything in the future as the summary implies. However, I can very well see how Un would be stuck with a dangerous mother-child to take care of (and keep out of trouble). The favor a son enjoys is directly proportional to the love bestowed upon a woman by the Emperor. If ever, by some accident, Longhee is tricked into enraging the Emperor, Un can say goodbye to his head, let alone his throne.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2019
- Messages
- 1
thanks so much for translating this series 
i really appreciate all your hard work and i love your analysis for each chapter. it adds a lot of context that is so helpful in understanding the depth of the work!
i really appreciate all your hard work and i love your analysis for each chapter. it adds a lot of context that is so helpful in understanding the depth of the work!
