Ad Astra - Scipio and Hannibal - Vol. 12 Ch. 72 - Unreachable Future
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 386
I wonder how much of Sophonisba's end is the author's own politics in play.
According to recorded history, she was to be sent to Rome as part of Scipio's Triumph, and Massinissa gave her poison to prevent her the indignities of such humiliation.
instead, we get that play about abortion, "right to life" and forgiving cheating partners.
there was no way that Massinissa could let Syphax's child survive or else it would be used by any Numidians wishing to depose him, whether by abortion of the foetus, Sophonisba's death or child's death years later. her fate was sealed the moment Syphax was defeated.
According to recorded history, she was to be sent to Rome as part of Scipio's Triumph, and Massinissa gave her poison to prevent her the indignities of such humiliation.
instead, we get that play about abortion, "right to life" and forgiving cheating partners.
there was no way that Massinissa could let Syphax's child survive or else it would be used by any Numidians wishing to depose him, whether by abortion of the foetus, Sophonisba's death or child's death years later. her fate was sealed the moment Syphax was defeated.
Knew this was coming, and the official history, but yeah oof nonetheless. Of course many of those soldiers killed probably had families, and the peasants forced into it are at least as pitiful. It can be for strong causes and reveal great heroism, self-sacrifice and intellect, but war is still hell whatever the time period.
@Starbuck
I guess it might be some politics per se, but hard to fully criticize it. As a practical matter, she'd need a lot more build up and the author is clearly trying to keep this story fairly tight rather then get bogged down in additional volumes. I know a lot of historians think she was a real agent for Carthage not merely a passive figure, and in the recorded history we've got Syphax was also a lot more aggressive about going after her, it wasn't just some face off trade at all. I think a lot of this change comes down to trying to find something a lot shorter that still got the gist across, that Massinissa really did love her but was also pragmatic, that Scipio had concerns about whether she'd be a threat to newly established Roman/Numidian relations, which were key to his plans, etc, all while trying to give her some real active choice in the matter.
I don't think that's necessarily bad since history going that far back is fuzzy, and it's undeniably written nearly entirely from the perspective and values of men. Plutarch differed from other historians in why Scipio wanted to taken away for example. How much choice she had is questionable, like women back then in general, even if she was a more active agent. Rome itself was relatively progressive as those things went, Roman women were at times allowed to own property, engage in business, get divorce, be protected from abuse, etc. But even for them the citizenship was still limited, they couldn't vote or hold positions, their marriage choices were rarely theirs, rights came and went, etc. Girls who were raped could be shamed or even killed for being "unchaste".
I think a good adaption here still could have been made out of something closer to official history, around honor, her playing a more active role out of trying to loyally follow Carthage/her father's orders, and Massinissa seeing poison as the most honorable way out for her at that point, while still being more sensitive to her position and all of them disliking the situation. Might give even more agency. You're right that Massinissa couldn't possibly leave a child of the old king around that might be a rallying figure for opposition later. But this worked, and moves us on towards the final battle.
@Starbuck
I guess it might be some politics per se, but hard to fully criticize it. As a practical matter, she'd need a lot more build up and the author is clearly trying to keep this story fairly tight rather then get bogged down in additional volumes. I know a lot of historians think she was a real agent for Carthage not merely a passive figure, and in the recorded history we've got Syphax was also a lot more aggressive about going after her, it wasn't just some face off trade at all. I think a lot of this change comes down to trying to find something a lot shorter that still got the gist across, that Massinissa really did love her but was also pragmatic, that Scipio had concerns about whether she'd be a threat to newly established Roman/Numidian relations, which were key to his plans, etc, all while trying to give her some real active choice in the matter.
I don't think that's necessarily bad since history going that far back is fuzzy, and it's undeniably written nearly entirely from the perspective and values of men. Plutarch differed from other historians in why Scipio wanted to taken away for example. How much choice she had is questionable, like women back then in general, even if she was a more active agent. Rome itself was relatively progressive as those things went, Roman women were at times allowed to own property, engage in business, get divorce, be protected from abuse, etc. But even for them the citizenship was still limited, they couldn't vote or hold positions, their marriage choices were rarely theirs, rights came and went, etc. Girls who were raped could be shamed or even killed for being "unchaste".
I think a good adaption here still could have been made out of something closer to official history, around honor, her playing a more active role out of trying to loyally follow Carthage/her father's orders, and Massinissa seeing poison as the most honorable way out for her at that point, while still being more sensitive to her position and all of them disliking the situation. Might give even more agency. You're right that Massinissa couldn't possibly leave a child of the old king around that might be a rallying figure for opposition later. But this worked, and moves us on towards the final battle.
The change was probably more of a move to "redeem" the character of Massinissa than the author's politics. The idea of killing your own wife to prevent her from being humiliated is something that would be lauded as a righteous action in that age but wouldn't fly around in the modern era.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2019
- Messages
- 63
@Plutonis
Pretty sure this is literally what happened
`` Masinissa married Syphax's wife Sophonisba, but Scipio, suspicious of her loyalty, demanded that she be taken to Rome and appear in the triumphal parade. To save her from such humiliation, Masinissa sent her poison, with which she killed herself. Masinissa was now accepted as a loyal ally of Rome, and was confirmed by Scipio as the king of the Massylii. ``
From his wikipedia page. If anything they kinda numbed it down by making it so it was just meant to kill the fetus
Pretty sure this is literally what happened
`` Masinissa married Syphax's wife Sophonisba, but Scipio, suspicious of her loyalty, demanded that she be taken to Rome and appear in the triumphal parade. To save her from such humiliation, Masinissa sent her poison, with which she killed herself. Masinissa was now accepted as a loyal ally of Rome, and was confirmed by Scipio as the king of the Massylii. ``
From his wikipedia page. If anything they kinda numbed it down by making it so it was just meant to kill the fetus
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 8,132
And there goes his happy ending.
Well whether it was to save her the humiliation at Rome, or to keep the son from his contender to come and plant more problems down the line, either way he ended losing what he was fighting for.
But at least now he is king tho.
Well whether it was to save her the humiliation at Rome, or to keep the son from his contender to come and plant more problems down the line, either way he ended losing what he was fighting for.
But at least now he is king tho.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 1,369
And there it goes. The endgame is in sight.
I do hope they do that little scene where Hannibal sends a surrender demand to the Senate, and the Senate proceeds to send him back a receipt for the rent he owes for the public land his army's camp is occupying. Absolute chad move there.
I do hope they do that little scene where Hannibal sends a surrender demand to the Senate, and the Senate proceeds to send him back a receipt for the rent he owes for the public land his army's camp is occupying. Absolute chad move there.
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2018
- Messages
- 257
masinissa with that tier 3 sub to sophonisba, simps gonna simp
Active member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2018
- Messages
- 410
NEVER TRUST A FAT BALDING BASTARD
