Adopted Daughter-in-Law Is Preparing to Be Abandoned - Ch. 35

[MangaDex]

 

[Kaarme]

Poor duke.

 

[ARealCoolGuy]

That's what happens when you don't show your appreciation for gifts - the Duke deserves it.

 

[Kaarme]

That's what happens when you don't show your appreciation for gifts - the Duke deserves it.

If you haven't noticed, the duke has zero soft social skills. Ellie understands those skills pretty well, though, even if her methods are oft somewhat corrupt. She's the one who should teach the duke, not expect unrealistic things from him. The duke did give her a splendid life, quite an upgrade from a wretched gamblers' den of an orphanage, so she could return the favour.

 

[Jonson26]

If you haven't noticed, the duke has zero soft social skills. Ellie understands those skills pretty well, though, even if her methods are oft somewhat corrupt. She's the one who should teach the duke, not expect unrealistic things from him. The duke did give her a splendid life, quite an upgrade from a wretched gamblers' den of an orphanage, so she could return the favour.

Casual reminder that the duke regularly executes people without a proper trial. He deserves a little hardship IMO.

 

[Kaarme]

Casual reminder that the duke regularly executes people without a proper trial. He deserves a little hardship IMO.

He is the proper trial. He's executing scumbags, who abuse their power and are plotting crimes. It's a society where nobles wield disproportionate power. He's reminding them of the fact that with great power comes great responsibility.

 

[Jonson26]

He is the proper trial. He's executing scumbags, who abuse their power and are plotting crimes. It's a society where nobles wield disproportionate power. He's reminding them of the fact that with great power comes great responsibility.

The fact that one person can hold all this power (i.e. no separation of powers) is the exact reason why the scumbags he kills can exist at all. Also, no matter how evil, everyone should have the right to a fair trial. Imagine what would happen if a future potential duke were to grow up into an evil man, and come to possess all of the current duke's power. Separation of powers is meant to prevent exactly this. So the current duke being judge, jury and executioner is a really bad thing.

 

[Kaarme]

The fact that one person can hold all this power (i.e. no separation of powers) is the exact reason why the scumbags he kills can exist at all. Also, no matter how evil, everyone should have the right to a fair trial. Imagine what would happen if a future potential duke were to grow up into an evil man, and come to possess all of the current duke's power. Separation of powers is meant to prevent exactly this. So the current duke being judge, jury and executioner is a really bad thing.

Sure, but do you actually think fair trials exist in that country? Even in RL, where we supposedly have equality, a person's wealth and general social standing will affect not only the odds of being accused at all, but also the probability of being judged guilty and the weight of the sentence. In real history the aristocracy lived in a world of their own.

If a future duke becomes a monster, then it's technically the king's business to deal with him, unless lesser nobles get him assassinated first. If the king becomes a terrible tyrant, then it's the God's job to deal with him. Too bad the God has usually not been very interested in that task.

 

[Jonson26]

Sure, but do you actually think fair trials exist in that country? Even in RL, where we supposedly have equality, a person's wealth and general social standing will affect not only the odds of being accused at all, but also the probability of being judged guilty and the weight of the sentence. In real history the aristocracy lived in a world of their own.

If a future duke becomes a monster, then it's technically the king's business to deal with him, unless lesser nobles get him assassinated first. If the king becomes a terrible tyrant, then it's the God's job to deal with him. Too bad the God has usually not been very interested in that task.

Sure, but I think it's a matter of principle. Besides, the execution the duke performed seemed to be rather impulsive. (Not including the fact that he alluded that he would spare them if they told him what he wanted but killed them anyway after they gave up the info.)

Also, that's why I'm not really a fan of absolute monarchy (which seems to be the system in most of these stories). If we need nobles an a king, I think a far better system would be the one that was in place in Poland before the Partitioning (excludnig the whole Liberum Veto fiasco).

 

[Kaarme]

Sure, but I think it's a matter of principle. Besides, the execution the duke performed seemed to be rather impulsive. (Not including the fact that he alluded that he would spare them if they told him what he wanted but killed them anyway after they gave up the info.)

Also, that's why I'm not really a fan of absolute monarchy (which seems to be the system in most of these stories). If we need nobles an a king, I think a far better system would be the one that was in place in Poland before the Partitioning (excludnig the whole Liberum Veto fiasco).

Although I'm not sure if it's not just sloppiness by the author, but this duke is supposed to be the warring duke, whereas the murdered duke was the financial, that is, diplomatic duke. So, I feel like the author might be making this duke particularly ruthless and straightforward so that the distinct difference really exists. Since I always kept this in mind, I wasn't particularly bothered by his way of doing things. In another story I'd, certainly, like to see a better process for it, including initial imprisonment, interrogation, and then something resembling a court session, before the punishment. Even if all that was just mentioned without showing it. But then again, I would also like to see a bit better plots and schemes by the other nobles.

 

[Jonson26]

Although I'm not sure if it's not just sloppiness by the author, but this duke is supposed to be the warring duke, whereas the murdered duke was the financial, that is, diplomatic duke. So, I feel like the author might be making this duke particularly ruthless and straightforward so that the distinct difference really exists. Since I always kept this in mind, I wasn't particularly bothered by his way of doing things. In another story I'd, certainly, like to see a better process for it, including initial imprisonment, interrogation, and then something resembling a court session, before the punishment. Even if all that was just mentioned without showing it. But then again, I would also like to see a bit better plots and schemes by the other nobles.

Certainly, "Ah yes I will hide and torture the kid that looks exactly like the one this powerful dangerous guy is well known to be looking for only for the sake of my amusement! What could go wrong?" doesn't seem like a very shrewd plan.

 

[solchimes]

Congrats, you've opened the yandere route.

 

[EldritchNeko]

If you haven't noticed, the duke has zero soft social skills. Ellie understands those skills pretty well, though, even if her methods are oft somewhat corrupt. She's the one who should teach the duke, not expect unrealistic things from him. The duke did give her a splendid life, quite an upgrade from a wretched gamblers' den of an orphanage, so she could return the favour.

How could we expect MC to realize that that the Duke isn't properly expressing himself when he has adequate 'hard' social skills and hasn't shown her any indication that he's troubled? She gen

And how would she be in a position to even offer to educate him in social skills? She's a little girl (albeit exceptionally intelligent, socially adept, politically cunning, and fairly physically capable) that he took in as the intended fiancé of his adopted son - that's not exactly a position where she could just offer lessons on expressing one's opinions in interpersonal relationships. Furthermore, would the Duke even consider that a priority? I doubt he would (though there is a slim chance).

However, in these types of stories a long-time close advisor (or someone who was brought in by them) usually preforms the duty of teaching such things. I'm hoping that either Baron Amanta, the Blacksmith, or the Second-In-Command Knight (I don't think there were any others who are close enough) start intervening.
Or a high-level servant. A head maid or head butler/master chamberlain might be able to do it too (though it would have to be said very diplomatically, considering the difference in position).

 

[EldritchNeko]

Casual reminder that the duke regularly executes people without a proper trial. He deserves a little hardship IMO.

Slightly less casual counterpoint: That's their society, and he holds the authority to be the judge, jury, and executor/executioner within it. The evidence is pretty clear (they were comparable to bandits caught with freshly bloodied weapons and freshly acquired spoils), and their society likely doesn't have the resources to employ much more than a basic "town/city jail"-type prison system. Nobles are charged with maintaining order under their sovereign, so they literally are the force of the law (knights and regional/town/city guards are like police, while nobles are like judges who can also work on the front lines as police - though lower-ranking nobles have a smaller area of jurisdiction, but a nations sole Duke is only inferior to the sovereign).

Honestly, so long as he's not slaughtering people who aren't blatantly guilty of significant crimes (like continuous abuse, neglect, and slavery), I'd say there's not much of an issue.
As for the issue of "what if the next Duke is a crazy mass murderer?" That's not the current Duke's fault, unless he directly played a part in causing the next Duke to become a crazy mass murderer. It's the system they live in. He shouldn't deserve hardship for simply doing his job

 

[Jonson26]

Slightly less casual counterpoint: That's their society, and he holds the authority to be the judge, jury, and executor/executioner within it. The evidence is pretty clear (they were comparable to bandits caught with freshly bloodied weapons and freshly acquired spoils), and their society likely doesn't have the resources to employ much more than a basic "town/city jail"-type prison system. Nobles are charged with maintaining order under their sovereign, so they literally are the force of the law (knights and regional/town/city guards are like police, while nobles are like judges who can also work on the front lines as police - though lower-ranking nobles have a smaller area of jurisdiction, but a nations sole Duke is only inferior to the sovereign).

Honestly, so long as he's not slaughtering people who aren't blatantly guilty of significant crimes (like continuous abuse, neglect, and slavery), I'd say there's not much of an issue.
As for the issue of "what if the next Duke is a crazy mass murderer?" That's not the current Duke's fault, unless he directly played a part in causing the next Duke to become a crazy mass murderer. It's the system they live in. He shouldn't deserve hardship for simply doing his job

Yeah, I was more annoyed that he alluded that he would let them live if they did as told and then killed them anyway.

 

[EldritchNeko]

Yeah, I was more annoyed that he alluded that he would let them live if they did as told and then killed them anyway.

I can understand that it seems a bit deceitful, but he never actually said that he would spare the slavers. He threatened them with death and he said "If you don't want to die, then answer me." but he never actually said he'd let them live.

I don't generally have any sympathy for child-abusing slavers, but if the Duke had actually said "I'll let you live" or something equivalent, then out of principle I might've taken issue with the fact that he'd have lied. He never actually said that though, so I don't really have any issue with his conduct. Child-abusing slavers aren't the type of people that should be left alive/active when one is in the position to choose otherwise.
Honestly, if he had actually lied, then my issue would be more with the fact that he could have gotten the same results without lying.

In my opinion, the most respectable approach to the interrogation would have been say something like "choosing to answer my questions or not will help determine how long you have left to live" and have the unstated consequence of noncompliance be a more painful and drawn out death, with the reward being a quick one. The words would be fairly direct about the potential outcomes while being just vague enough that they remain true - even if the subjects of the words had slightly misinterpreted the results.

PS: I went back to ensure I knew what I was talking about. The scene is in the first part of Chapter 12, in case you would like to verify as well.

 

[Jonson26]

I can understand that it seems a bit deceitful, but he never actually said that he would spare the slavers. He threatened them with death and he said "If you don't want to die, then answer me." but he never actually said he'd let them live.

I don't generally have any sympathy for child-abusing slavers, but if the Duke had actually said "I'll let you live" or something equivalent, then out of principle I might've taken issue with the fact that he'd have lied. He never actually said that though, so I don't really have any issue with his conduct. Child-abusing slavers aren't the type of people that should be left alive/active when one is in the position to choose otherwise.
Honestly, if he had actually lied, then my issue would be more with the fact that he could have gotten the same results without lying.

In my opinion, the most respectable approach to the interrogation would have been say something like "choosing to answer my questions or not will help determine how long you have left to live" and have the unstated consequence of noncompliance be a more painful and drawn out death, with the reward being a quick one. The words would be fairly direct about the potential outcomes while being just vague enough that they remain true - even if the subjects of the words had slightly misinterpreted the results.

PS: I went back to ensure I knew what I was talking about. The scene is in the first part of Chapter 12, in case you would like to verify as well.

I re-read that part just in case, as suggested, and I still think that he basically lied. He was implying that he would let them live if they gave the info, and not saying it directly doesn't make it much better in my opinion. It would've been alright if he sent them to a court for trial afterwards though.

And I do agree with your last paragraph. In fact, I think doing it this way would've made the duke a much cooler character.

 

[EldritchNeko]

I re-read that part just in case, as suggested, and I still think that he basically lied. He was implying that he would let them live if they gave the info, and not saying it directly doesn't make it much better in my opinion. It would've been alright if he sent them to a court for trial afterwards though.

And I do agree with your last paragraph. In fact, I think doing it this way would've made the duke a much cooler character.

Yeah. They're both essentially a "the devil never lies" kind of thing, but the superior devil is the one that's more skillful in weaving their words.
I actually try to put that into practice IRL. Not that I have much need for deceit, but I'm careful about it when I do. Minimizes how tangled the web gets when it traces around the truth rather than crossing it's lines. Also kind of a fun challenge.

 

[halcer]

The way the guard held the kids was hilarious