Aku no Kadou wo Ikimashou - Vol. 1 Ch. 1 - Let's walk The Flowery Path of Evil

[PLaci1982]

Joined spread of pages 7-8:

 

[Pokari]

...I'm not so sure how I feel about the fact that it kind of ultimately sort of papers over the fact that this is a man who was initially willing to rape a girl at the prince's request.

 

[Yuri_lover0-0]

I only picked this because the guy on the cover looked like a dumpling or Humpty Dumpty and I just had to check it out looks good so far!

 

[outinthegardener]

Well, the art is extremely stylized. Guy looks like the Radish Spirit from Spirited Away. Ain't no human with that kind of anatomy.

Assuming his body shape is a stylistic choice, and probably he looks like your average sitcom dad... that's perfect. I know a lot of women who prefer fluffy male bodies and older men, instead of unrealistic magazine beauty standards. The chapter establishes how he feels inferior to his younger wife, and works to improve his health for her. He works to influence politics for her. That's a golden ship! When the noble society is rotten, find yourself a ride-or-die partner.

 

[chojinra]

...I'm not so sure how I feel about the fact that it kind of ultimately sort of papers over the fact that this is a man who was initially willing to rape a girl at the prince's request.

Where'd you get rape from? Unless you're talking about the practice of nobility arranged marriages period.

 

[Pokari]

Where'd you get rape from? Unless you're talking about the practice of nobility arranged marriages period.

I wasn't aware that part of my statement would be confusing. Arranged marriage to deliberately pair someone you think will be revolting would not meet a local legal definition of rape in a country that allows forced marriages in the first place, sure, but the intent is clearly there.

 

[chojinra]

I wasn't aware that part of my statement would be confusing. Arranged marriage to deliberately pair someone you think will be revolting would not meet a local legal definition of rape in a country that allows forced marriages in the first place, sure, but the intent is clearly there.

Sure, but it seems like quite an escalation from point B to.. Z?

That's assuming that if either party wished to fight the outcome, they would be incapable of doing so. The prince may be powerful enough to have the PM go through with this marriage (which is debatable), but from his character depicted later on, it's doubtful he would go against her wishes on the matter. Not to mention Celestine has a powerful family that could have made other arrangements for her, or extracted her from the situation.

Though that does play into the fallacy of arranged marriages. Yes, she can reject it, but rejecting it would have dire consequences for her family. Not to mention she's being punished for her "wicked deeds", so it's either get married or face legal ramifications. As most nobility realizes that this type of arrangement is one of the obligations of being a noble, they enter into it willingly despite reservations or feelings on the matter. Hence the prince and his fiancee.

To put it simply, she's fulfilling her duty willingly. While it might be distasteful, that practice is still going on to this day in one form or another in most countries. There's even a whole anthology of it, and it's where this story comes from.

 

[Pokari]

Sure, but it seems like quite an escalation from point B to.. Z?

That's assuming that if either party wished to fight the outcome, they would be incapable of doing so. The prince may be powerful enough to have the PM go through with this marriage (which is debatable), but from his character depicted later on, it's doubtful he would go against her wishes on the matter. Not to mention Celestine has a powerful family that could have made other arrangements for her, or extracted her from the situation.

Though that does play into the fallacy of arranged marriages. Yes, she can reject it, but rejecting it would have dire consequences for her family. Not to mention she's being punished for her "wicked deeds", so it's either get married or face legal ramifications. As most nobility realizes that this type of arrangement is one of the obligations of being a noble, they enter into it willingly despite reservations or feelings on the matter. Hence the prince and his fiancee.

To put it simply, she's fulfilling her duty willingly. While it might be distasteful, that practice is still going on to this day in one form or another in most countries. There's even a whole anthology of it, and it's where this story comes from.

Uh... Okay, but "'consent' under duress" is still rape. Like, heck, not just morally but legally nowadays, in most places one would want to live.

 

[chojinra]

Uh... Okay, but "'consent' under duress" is still rape. Like, heck, not just morally but legally nowadays, in most places one would want to live.

Like the Americas and Europe? Because I’m sure if you go high enough, or low enough, there are examples where it still happens.

 

[Pokari]

Like the Americas and Europe? Because I’m sure if you go high enough, or low enough, there are examples where it still happens.

To be honest, I'm still not quite sure what point you're trying to get at with "rape still happens and also gets inconsistent legal treatment in the modern world"

I mean... yes, it does. This is known. Something being immoral, something being illegal, and something actually being brought to justice are all different things. In the manga setting, it's immoral, not illegal, and not likely to be brought to (legal) justice. In comparatively progressive modern settings, the same would be immoral, illegal, and inconsistently brought to justice.

And in any of those cases, it's (attempted) rape. And yes, that's using the modern conception of the word, as opposed to medieval ones which were frequently kind of a bit amoral to our modern eyes and seemingly as much concerned with the devaluation of women as pieces of owned property. I am in fact using modern English! The moral issues, wrongs, and suffering involved in why what they did is wrong, however, have not changed, over any span of time, regardless of the label applied.

But I think I've articulated my point ad nauseam by now, in any case.

 

[chojinra]

To be honest, I'm still not quite sure what point you're trying to get at with "rape still happens and also gets inconsistent legal treatment in the modern world"

I mean... yes, it does. This is known. Something being immoral, something being illegal, and something actually being brought to justice are all different things. In the manga setting, it's immoral, not illegal, and not likely to be brought to (legal) justice. In comparatively progressive modern settings, the same would be immoral, illegal, and inconsistently brought to justice.

And in any of those cases, it's (attempted) rape. And yes, that's using the modern conception of the word, as opposed to medieval ones which were frequently kind of a bit amoral to our modern eyes and seemingly as much concerned with the devaluation of women as pieces of owned property. I am in fact using modern English! The moral issues, wrongs, and suffering involved in why what they did is wrong, however, have not changed, over any span of time, regardless of the label applied.

But I think I've articulated my point ad nauseam by now, in any case.

My point rape is a stretch if they consent to an arranged marriage. Especially if they have the means to fight it.

But it is probably best to put this to rest.

 

[Tanmoy1945]

Bro's built like an scp.