Anata ga Shite Kurenakute mo - Vol. 11 Ch. 84

[miyeng]

The fact that some couple out there actually have same situation like this it just sad.

 

[kiero13]

but it's aggravating that everyone including the author seem to be spinning her obsession with work as a positive trait.

I think everyone here acknowledges (and even hates her for it) that her being workaholic is toxic. my whole questioning is to show how misaligned her passion for work is, and indirectly point out that it's toxic.

imo the author deliberately made her like that as reason for makoto's emotional cheating. so maybe she also acknowledges her obsession is bad?

although now she's kinda spinning the narrative with "she's always been like that", that makoto always knew she's like this and she loved her for that, and now kaede realizes (again) the consequences of her work obsession.

I don't know where the author's heading with this. I wanted them to work out but with kaede accepting the position, yeah just divorce already.

 

[Mielly]

Unfortunate she realized so late, but she chose her path and is happier as a career person. People make mistakes and hopefully they'll both end up where they're happiest.

Makoto does deserve someone with the same values on family though. He's content now and has finalized his feelings, he does not love her romantically anymore. So I'm hoping she won't be back peddling...all that "don't know what you got till it's gone" trope and the like.

It'd only be logical. With Makoto gone, Kaede will lose her personal butler and go from being able to come back at night from work to a clean house and a warm meal, to living off of instant ramen among piles of dirty clothes. Though she'll surely resort to paying hand over fist for a housemaid.

 

[Mielly]

Of course the mangaka just had to show that panel. I am more convinced that she purposely made Kaede suffered just because she is not the protagonist of the story. Niina and Michi really?

I wish Kaede could be happy, but since the mangaka is hell-bent on making her suffering, I doubt she will. I wish she could be with someone who understand and supports her ambition and career. She shouldn't suffer just because she is ambitious and career-driven or because she is in the way of the main pairing dear mangaka.

On the other side how could an idiot like Kaede not suffer? Could anyone feel truly happy sacrificing every waking hour of their life to someone else's company? This isn't her own fashion magazine, she's only a mere employee, who could very well be fired and replaced as soon as the management found the sales figures unsatisfying or the editorial policy distasteful.
Imagine sitting by yourself at the twilight of your life, realizing your whole life went into a random fashion magazine that probably went under, considering the current state of the fashion press.

 

[silverpetricof]

Thank you for the translation.

On the other side how could an idiot like Kaede not suffer? Could anyone feel truly happy sacrificing every waking hour of their life to someone else's company? This isn't her own fashion magazine, she's only a mere employee, who could very well be fired and replaced as soon as the management found the sales figures unsatisfying or the editorial policy distasteful.
Imagine sitting by yourself at the twilight of your life, realizing your whole life went into a random fashion magazine that probably went under, considering the current state of the fashion press.

Pretty much. It's admirable to be good at your job, but at the end of the day you're still working under someone. And unless you're running your own business or are the top of the corporate chain, someone has power over you.

These couple years into the 2020s have made one thing abundantly clear in the job market: you are replaceable. You can be cutoff at a moment's notice and they will not care, even if you've dedicated years to your now former role.

What did you busting your ass for so long amount to at the end then?

 

[hubbadubbadubba]

This is such a great manga.

I've binged the whole thing in one day and I'm just amazed by how grounded it is. Everything, all characters, their reactions, their thought process, even their flaws, everything feels so real.

 

[AkodoRyu]

Of course the mangaka just had to show that panel. I am more convinced that she purposely made Kaede suffered just because she is not the protagonist of the story. Niina and Michi really?

I wish Kaede could be happy, but since the mangaka is hell-bent on making her suffering, I doubt she will. I wish she could be with someone who understand and supports her ambition and career. She shouldn't suffer just because she is ambitious and career-driven or because she is in the way of the main pairing dear mangaka. Makoto has never once loved her anyway

What do you mean? She says herself that she is happy, she felt happiness when she was offered the position. Being happy doesn't mean there are no moments you feel bad or regret your past choices.

Personally, I find her decisions not commendable, because just being a higher-level employee is not worth sacrificing your whole life. Most people I know who worked all the time when they were younger did it for the sole purpose of not having to work later - you build your business to make it big enough to not have to work anymore. You can, but you don't have to.

 

[jeremymd]

Side bar: there aren't a bunch of couples making it work. It's usually the assumption (and the realized norm) that women sacrifice their careers for their families, statistically speaking. The real problem is that they both had incompatible life goals and just need to be with people who fit them. And I'm really glad the story is taking that direction.

This marriage never should have happened. But it did. Because story.

 

[maddery]

What do you mean? She says herself that she is happy, she felt happiness when she was offered the position. Being happy doesn't mean there are no moments you feel bad or regret your past choices.

Personally, I find her decisions not commendable, because just being a higher-level employee is not worth sacrificing your whole life. Most people I know who worked all the time when they were younger did it for the sole purpose of not having to work later - you build your business to make it big enough to not have to work anymore. You can, but you don't have to.

Suffered as in she is getting a lot of flak from both the mangaka and the readers because she is "workaholic", even though she is the only one who did not cheat in the series. Michi and Makoto on the other hand got scot-free even though they would have been condemned in real-life for having affairs.

You may not find it commendable, but that is forgiven if you did not put yourself in her shoes. If you do, you will understand why people like her are ambitious.

 

[AkodoRyu]

Suffered as in she is getting a lot of flak from both the mangaka and the readers because she is "workaholic", even though she is the only one who did not cheat in the series. Michi and Makoto on the other hand got scot-free even though they would have been condemned in real-life for having affairs.

Why would I condemn them? Is it my relationship? If they resolved the issue between themselves, then it's not my role as an observer to interfere.

Besides, it would have been the same in real life as it is here - because there was no physical relationship, most people would discuss whether emotional cheating is cheating, and if the source of it is a significant emotional distress your partner puts you through, can it be justified? I love this series exactly because it's all gray. The only person I consider to be PoS is Michi's ex. Everyone else? I get their viewpoints and find all of them mostly valid.

I also somewhat disagree with her not cheating - it's just a different kind of cheating. Her real husband is her work. Her work is the only one that is getting any attention or care from her. Her husband is reduced to 60% roommate and 40% house cleaning person.

You may not find it commendable, but that is forgiven if you did not put yourself in her shoes. If you do, you will understand why people like her are ambitious.

No, her ambition and workaholism did not come from her relationship. She was always a workaholic, yet decided to give the relationship a try, to a disastrous result. It's like many others said - she is not good leadership material when she can't even manage her time well enough to not alienate and push away her husband, who is completely smitten with her. With how much of a simp Makoto was, it's a true effort to make him feel like cheating is a solution.

She is not a bad person, she is a pitiful person who got bamboozled into the rat race by people who actually benefit from her work. All she gets is a raise and a new title. For basically completely sacrificing her life to the company. Even if it cost me an arm and a leg, I'm glad I've learned in my 20s that your company doesn't give a shit about you, regardless of how friendly management acts. When it's about money, they will do everything they can to save it, even if it means burning bridges. That's why, unless you are given substantial equity, you just do your 9-5 and go home. You can work very hard, you can phone it in, depending if you want to advance or are comfortable where you are, but what you don't give is more time.

 

[maddery]

Why would I condemn them? Is it my relationship? If they resolved the issue between themselves, then it's not my role as an observer to interfere.

Besides, it would have been the same in real life as it is here - because there was no physical relationship, most people would discuss whether emotional cheating is cheating, and if the source of it is a significant emotional distress your partner puts you through, can it be justified? I love this series exactly because it's all gray. The only person I consider to be PoS is Michi's ex. Everyone else? I get their viewpoints and find all of them mostly valid.

I also somewhat disagree with her not cheating - it's just a different kind of cheating. Her real husband is her work. Her work is the only one that is getting any attention or care from her. Her husband is reduced to 60% roommate and 40% house cleaning person.

No, her ambition and workaholism did not come from her relationship. She was always a workaholic, yet decided to give the relationship a try, to a disastrous result. It's like many others said - she is not good leadership material when she can't even manage her time well enough to not alienate and push away her husband, who is completely smitten with her. With how much of a simp Makoto was, it's a true effort to make him feel like cheating is a solution.

She is not a bad person, she is a pitiful person who got bamboozled into the rat race by people who actually benefit from her work. All she gets is a raise and a new title. For basically completely sacrificing her life to the company. Even if it cost me an arm and a leg, I'm glad I've learned in my 20s that your company doesn't give a shit about you, regardless of how friendly management acts. When it's about money, they will do everything they can to save it, even if it means burning bridges. That's why, unless you are given substantial equity, you just do your 9-5 and go home. You can work very hard, you can phone it in, depending if you want to advance or are comfortable where you are, but what you don't give is more time.

They did have sex though. So there is your "physical relationship" proof.

There is nothing gray in this series. Michi and Makoto are painted as the "good guy" while others are painted as the "bad guys" (especially Kaede and the unfortunate glasses woman). You may considered Michi's ex as the only PoS in the series, but others do not shared the same view as you (just look at how the readers' reaction towards Kaede).

Kaede did not cheat. She is workaholic yes, and she did neglect Makoto, but that is not cheating. Not good in romantic relationship =/= not good in leadership. Wherever you people got that idea? There are countless of people who are in leadership position and yet terrible when it comes to relationship. I did mentioned before that the mangaka had to give a reason for Makoto's failure in marriage so that the readers will support Michi x Makoto instead, and so Kaede had to be the neglectful workaholic wife for readers to hate her. Would you still root for Michi x Makoto if Kaede is did not neglect Makoto instead?

Makoto was never in love with Kaede even before this "reconciliation" arc; he married her because he admired her. It's only during this arc that the mangaka "showed" that Makoto is (supposedly) in love with Kaede all along. I don't know if Makoto can be considered a simp, seeing as he only married Kaede because of what his mother told him about marriage.

People have different view when it comes to career. You may think she is pitiful because you think that she was "bamboozled" into the rat race, but is she? I think you might have confused Kaede here, because I don't think she does fits with the scenario that you mentioned in the last paragraph.

 

[ginaasofnow]

This marriage never should have happened. But it did. Because story.

And, like, the variety of people who end up in this exact relationship. Flip the genders and it's the exact archetype of a long-suffering wife and the workaholic husband you see everywhere.