Arafoo Kenja no Isekai Seikatsu Nikki - Vol. 6 Ch. 31

[Nemo2342]

I feel like you're assuming the 56 rune letters are each a full word on their own or something, when usually these form words/sentences (y'know, as he said 'described with word')

Using English comparison:
Fire Water Earth Wind - up to 5 letters space, with 10 different unique letters overall (firewathnd)
00 01 10 11 - 2 digits of space for input, all just 0/1.

If there's only so many variation to a part of the 'sentence' that form the spell, he can simplify each section down into the smallest amount of digit required.

We have example from all the way back in chapter 2 that spells aren't written concisely.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/6b3f34dc-cf5a-4c3e-b469-56a54cec09e2/7
Heck even in this chapter:
https://mangadex.org/chapter/fc30435f-9858-45a1-a76d-c67b2f066d3b/3
And those spells still work, just very inefficiently.

So some of the 'verbose' stuffs he talked might just be the 'trash' people left in the old system (like, say, calling upon spirits/gods for power when the magic doesn't actually do that)

I'm just going to note that Chapter 3, page 12 says that the magic system is made up of 56 runic letters and 10 runic numbers.

It further elaborates that there was some kind of "spell structure" and people needed "runic dictionaries", but that only players who had trained in programming or science and math were able to understand the structures.

Or to put it more simply, I think the author just wrote themselves into a corner and fucked things up like someone earlier in the conversation said, because converting 66 characters into binary is definitely not going to save space.

 

[doyouevenjump]

gotta reread forgot what goes on lolz. Thanks for picking it up

 

[Aricitic]

I am doubting that the author, or the one adapting this to manga has really thought this through--had a fully-thought-out and written magic system that they can include in the story as needed; kinda like making a fully-rendered 3d model of a school building for a slice-of-life school manga that they can refer to whenever they need to. And to be honest, they haven't really needed to. Magic systems can be as hand-wavy as it can, it even not be consistent, but this series had more or less given the reader the expectation that their magic system has internal logic to it.

Not only was the magic system less hand-wavy because of how the writer (original or adaptation) did it, characterizing magic as "programming" made things way more difficult for them. They wrote themselves into a corner, leading to them messing up like this.

It's a bit too bad since I was intrigued at how the author would flesh out this premise of "spellcasting as programming". But at least the other aspects of this title still interest me enough to see things through.

I'm thinking you are correct on this. Honestly, it doesn't bother me "that much," I just find it frustrating when someone tries to use a system that they clearly don't understand to do something that it clearly wouldn't do... like this.

I feel like you're assuming the 56 rune letters are each a full word on their own or something, when usually these form words/sentences (y'know, as he said 'described with word')

Using English comparison:
Fire Water Earth Wind - up to 5 letters space, with 10 different unique letters overall (firewathnd)
00 01 10 11 - 2 digits of space for input, all just 0/1.

If there's only so many variation to a part of the 'sentence' that form the spell, he can simplify each section down into the smallest amount of digit required.

We have example from all the way back in chapter 3 that spells aren't written concisely.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/6b3f34dc-cf5a-4c3e-b469-56a54cec09e2/7
Heck even in this chapter:
https://mangadex.org/chapter/fc30435f-9858-45a1-a76d-c67b2f066d3b/3
And those spells still work, just very inefficiently.

So some of the 'verbose' stuffs he talked might just be the 'trash' people left in the old system (like, say, calling upon spirits/gods for power when the magic doesn't actually do that)

"I feel like you're assuming the 56 rune letters are each a full word on their own or something," No. I am not. I'm assuming that they are letters like A-Z in English (etc). Very rarely does a language have characters that make up entire words. Japanese and Chinese do this. Very little else does. So we are in agreement that they are (in effect) letters.

"Using English comparison:
Fire Water Earth Wind - up to 5 letters space, with 10 different unique letters overall (firewathnd)
00 01 10 11 - 2 digits of space for input, all just 0/1."
Ok... That's not how this works.
Let's assume you are correct for a moment here and 00 == fire, 01 == water, 10 == earth, and 11 == wind. What happens in the sequence 0110? That isn't simply "water" followed by "earth" but also "garbage" followed by "wind" followed by "garbage"... This is easier to see in a longer sequence: 00011011 doesn't simply represent each one in turn, but also: "0," followed by "00" == fire, followed by "11" == wind, followed by "01" == water, followed by "1." This may seem pedantic, so let me make this easier and clearer for you and everyone else who may be reading this. Let's add a third digit, what the four other representations are don't matter... 000 = Fire; 001 = Water; 010 = Earth; 011 = Wind. 0000 = ? 1000 = ? 11000 = ? ... Because you haven't defined a "start sequence" or an "end sequence" there is no "start" or "end" to the sequence. This is absolutely and fundamentally required. A Huffman coding tree consisting of 16 (unique) characters total requires a total of five "bits" (or characters) to accurately represent each one of them without falling into this issue.
And that ignores the totality of everything else he needs to take into consideration. You've specified "four elements" classical in "magic" but the magic he is doing isn't simplistic like that. He needs to be able to specify a position in a three-dimensional space: X, Y, Z (each of which can easily be more than a double-digit decimal -- meaning 0 to 9 -- which would itself require characters); the size in three dimensions: H, W, D; orientation: Pitch, Yaw, Roll; and velocity (which is, again, simplified as X, Y, Z). And that's just defining an object's existence and ignoring its chemical makeup. He clearly states: "The 56-type magic formula describes phenomena and chemical reactions directly in [words], so it inevitably becomes verbose." or, specifically: "describes phenomena and chemical reactions" which explicitly means he isn't taking simplified concepts as "fire," "water," "earth," and "air" but instead complicated concepts such as "gravity," "mass," and chemical concepts such as "H2O," "CH4 + 2O2" -> "(CH3, CH2O, CO, H2)" -> "2H20 + CO2" (or the chemical reaction of "fire"), or the chemical makeup of various types of rock/stone.
If we were to take this at face value then the 56-rune system likely does something that would equate (English): "Create an orb of [chemical reaction describing fire] at 3 [unit], 2 [unit], 1 [unit] that is 1 [unit] by 1 [unit] by 1 [unit] and is facing 180 degrees by 1 degree by 1 degree and will go 100 [units of speed] by 0 [units of speed] by 0 [units of speed]." to create a "fireball" at [location] of [size] facing [direction] and will go [speed] when released. This could be simplified by "create action" "shape" "chemical reaction" "[quanity] [distance unit] (times 3)" "[quantity] [distance unit] (times 3)" "[Pitch], [Yaw], [Roll]" "[velocity x], [velocity y], [velocity z]" "end function key 'word'" but anything in "[]" cannot be abbreviated as they are variables that need to be able to be changed. So, if we assume each distinct thing in "quotes" can be abbreviated it would be at minimum: 22 + all required characters for the "chemical reaction" + all required characters for each "[quantity]." And that's just one spell.
That's a LOT more than four components and requires N digits for each 2^N combination.

And I want to address: "If there's only so many variation to a part of the 'sentence' that form the spell, he can simplify each section down into the smallest amount of digit required." directly. Yes, you are correct, I address "compression" (which is effectively what you are doing here) next, but first I'm going to address BINARY. Let's say you are correct and he is able to identify each separate, distinct, and unique aspect required for a spell. Binary consists of two characters, period. The original character set consisted of 56. It is entirely possible to apply compression to the original character set and not convert it into binary, and this would BE BETTER. With the original runes he would have a maximum of 56 characters to represent one thing; once he represented 56 "things" he would require a new digit which could then represent 56^2-56 new and different things -- and this is ignoring the rules of compression (see the next segment for Wikipedia article). If he uses binary, on the other hand, he can represent exactly TWO things for the first digit; exactly FOUR for the second, exactly EIGHT for the third, SIXTEEN for the fourth, THIRTY-TWO for the fifth, and SIXTY-FOUR for the sixth... To represent the same quantity of items as ONE digit of the original character set he would require SIX characters. That's NOT efficiency, not in anyone's wildest dreams.

Additionally, you are applying compression there, which the other person who replied to you (@pataponnaako) brought up. Look up Huffman coding, it is vastly more complex than simply setting "words" or "characters" to a simple binary sequence. For each additional added set you have to increase the number of digits by one, check out the Wikipedia article, evidence of what I'm saying can be seen in the block of text under the image on the immediate right.
And, as pataponnaako brought up, this would require him to know absolutely every key item of absolutely every spell to do (properly). That's unrealistic at the best of times - back when it was a game, for example - and practically impossible if it's a "real" universe.

So, while you are most likely correct that he is removing "fluff" from the original spells, that, alone, wouldn't require converting it to binary. He could still use the 56-rune system and have the same result with fewer overall "characters" required. In fact, the ONLY way that this could apply any form of 'efficiency' is if Zorander was correct in (what I assume/read as) the universe running on binary in the first place. Basically meaning that anything that isn't already binary has to be converted into binary. BUT, even this is nonsense. If humanity (this one, ours, the one you and I are part of) ever develops computers powerful enough to simulate an entire universe... hell, an entire planet/solar system... it will absolutely not use binary. As I said in the previous comment binary exists for one sole purpose: it's easier to represent on computer architecture/hardware.

 

[Aricitic]

I'm just going to note that Chapter 3, page 12 says that the magic system is made up of 56 runic letters and 10 runic numbers.

It further elaborates that there was some kind of "spell structure" and people needed "runic dictionaries", but that only players who had trained in programming or science and math were able to understand the structures.

Or to put it more simply, I think the author just wrote themselves into a corner and fucked things up like someone earlier in the conversation said, because converting 66 characters into binary is definitely not going to save space.

Part of what @WhimsiCat was getting at (I think) is some form of compression (ala Hoffman coding): i.e. taking an entire concept and making a binary sequence for it. While the idea itself isn't "bad" (per se) it has major flaws as brought up by @pataponnaako and myself (see above).

Programming in-and-of-itself isn't a "bad idea" when it comes to magic. Some others have done it quite well (take "The Prodigy Sefiria's Overpowering Program"). The only real problem here is trying to "down-scale" the character set from 56/66 to... 2...
You are absolutely correct: the author wrote themself into a corner trying to apply knowledge of computer science that (I can only assume) they didn't have... I see their logic like this: "Universe based originally on a game world" -> "Games are programmed (programming language)" -> "magic is 'programmed' in the game" -> "binary is the basis of programming" with little to no further thought on it.
BUT we'll just have to see if anyone who read the source material can clarify what that has to say on the topic...

 

[WhimsiCat]

blah

Y'know what, I went to check the RAW in case the translation is off.

Then I realized something.
This was the start of your complaint:

Not going to lie, when I read him say that converting spells from a( n unknown) character set into binary made the spells "less wordy" I was mostly unable to focus on anything else that the chapter said.

The thing is, he said nothing about it being less wordy. Only that the processing speed and size of magic formula being DIFFERENT.
Even the translation also use the term "different"

And at least even the torch spell he had Christina activated early on was still the old rune-based spell that he simply removed the useless parts from, he didn't convert it to his new system.

If you've got actual comparison between 'same spell' under the two system do tell, because the parts I've checked in RAW implies he made the new language to create new magics.

 

[CountryMage]

If his legs are shaking that much, it's not due to lack of physical strength. That said, it's always funny when people are confident in their lack of ability.

Magic being used only for combat and not for anything in normal life is a crutch a lot of isekai authors rely on. Just look at soldiers. They'll find a way to use their weapons for mundane things given the slightest chance. So anyone capable of magic and not actively on duty 100% of the time will find a way.

Refrigeration is kind of a big deal. Was done with ice long before electricity.

Oh, so he's into child labour.

That said, I don't remember much of this one. Not sure if it matters.

A lot of elitist snobs are in charge of the magic funding, as was explained early in this version of the manga, they decide to only pour their funds into the research of pure nonsense military applications (like that wide range annihilation magic they keep bringing up) and the schmoozing of noble society. The broke people who might actually look into noncombat uses for magic, end up being forced to conform, because even the robes they wear are symbols of their status.

 

[CountryMage]

Not going to lie, when I read him say that converting spells from a( n unknown) character set into binary made the spells "less wordy" I was mostly unable to focus on anything else that the chapter said.
Assume, for a moment, a character set of 26 characters. To convert a single letter into binary (which consists solely of "0" and "1") it would take no less than five consecutive characters (digits: 00001, for example, as "A." and that assumes only upper case letters). To convert a character set such as Japanese, with more than fifty thousand distinct characters? Sixteen consecutive distinct characters (digits: 0000000000000001, for example, as "あ"). (Please note, every f'ing time I try to do math, and post it here I somehow screw up. Someone please check my math. The quantity for "50,000+" characters for Japanese should be correct - see Unicode 16 or ask Google for 50k in binary and count the digits... Anyway).
How is this less "wordy" than a written language? In Japanese there exist single characters for entire words and/or entire concepts and to convert that to binary you have to extend it by fifteen minimum... "1" becomes: "0000000000000001" minimum...
BINARY IS NOT THE ANSWER. BINARY IS NOT BETTER. Binary exists solely because it is far easier to represent everything as "off" and "on" for computers. (Or somewhere below 5 volts as "0" and somewhere above 5 volts as "1" - depending on decade, technology and standard, and, yes, I know more standards exist).

Am I wrong? Am I crazy (with regards to this specifically)?

Probably not due to the math, and more to do with eliminating all the nonessential parts of the spell chant, so that you can keep your string of ones and zeroes as short as possible.

 

[Aricitic]

The thing is, he said nothing about it being less wordy. Only that the processing speed and size of magic formula being DIFFERENT.
Even the translation also use the term "different"

And at least even the torch spell he had Christina activated early on was still the old rune-based spell that he simply removed the useless parts from, he didn't convert it to his new system.

If you've got actual comparison between 'same spell' under the two system do tell, because the parts I've checked in RAW implies he made the new language to create new magics.

I cannot go on the raws because I cannot speak Japanese so I'm going purely based on the English translation.
What he said in this chapter, on page 13, fourth panel (from the right) is: "The 56-type magic formula describes phenomena and chemical reactions directly in words, so it inevitably becomes verbose." and continues to say: "My new formula can express those processes in sequences of 0s and 1s." and continues further: "This drastically changes both the processing speed and the size of the magic formula itself."

Ok, let's break it down. First: "The 56-type magic formula describes phenomena and chemical reactions directly in words, so it inevitably becomes verbose." We look at "[...] directly in words, so it inevitably becomes verbose." Looking up the definition for "verbose": "using or expressed in more words than are needed" (Google) with the synonym "wordy"; or "containing more words than necessary" (Merriam-Webster) with the synonym "wordy".
Second: "This drastically changes both the processing speed and the size of the magic formula itself." While it is certainly true that his exact words/usage is "[...] drastically changes [...]" the most logical assumption based on the first and last sentence is that this "change" is a reduction.
Basically, he says: (paraphrasing) "The old system expresses [stuff] in 'words' and/so/therefore it 'contains more words than necessary.' I made a new method that does it differently. This new method is better."

No. The above is not "exactly" what he is saying. I'm not claiming that. But given the positioning and therefore connections between the sentences it is extremely easy to "come to this conclusion." In fact, it is so easy to come to this conclusion that to assume he means anything else is... well... not reading the text. If this isn't what he means, then what do you think he means by these three sentences? Why is he wording it like this and in this manner?

Ok. I reviewed all of the chapters. Not once, not one single time, do they do a direct comparison between "standard magic" and "his formula"

Probably not due to the math, and more to do with eliminating all the nonessential parts of the spell chant, so that you can keep your string of ones and zeroes as short as possible.

But that assumes that everything is already strings of 0s and 1s. Additionally, it was pointed out that it isn't an "unknown character set" but a set of 56 characters. The only way it would theoretically be "shorter" to use "strings of 0s and 1s" is if everything is already those strings... but all of this is done on the "backend" with computers anyway, so if that is the comparison that is being made, this is, in fact, completely wrong. An "A" as seen by a person, is already represented by a string of 0s and 1s for the computer. Converting it, for the person, to that string doesn't make it smaller or faster, but instead increases the number of 0s and 1s.
On a computer, only in a binary editor do you see the actual code (binary) as seen by the computer. All else is converted for human convenience. Therefore trying to convert it for "processing" convenience doesn't do anything (helpful).

Basically, what I'm saying is that there is no point in using 0s and 1s if a character set already exists that consists of more characters than binary. Eliminating the "fluff" out of the spell can be done without the conversion.

 

[CountryMage]

Again, the existence of binary is solely for computer use. It literally has no place anywhere else. Unless that universe "runs on computer/machine physics" (i.e. a physical processor in "another" universe) it has no place. And I mean this literally: unless that universe runs as a modern (our) Earth processor he can use anything other than Binary for better results.
Hypothetically speaking the "coding" for a "real" universe any "symbol" would be usable because the universe doesn't "process" its information through the physical architecture of a modern (our) Earth processor, but - if a real-world comparison is required - through quantum processing, which doesn't require (but can use) binary to function.
Finally, and I do this in the next response, but I feel the need to do it here, what he says is [Citation: this chapter (31) page 13, fourth panel]: "The 56-type magic formula describes phenomena and chemical reactions directly in [words], so it inevitably becomes [verbose]." and "My new formula can express those processes in sequences of [0s and 1s]."
Note the "describes phenomena and chemical reactions directly in [words]" and "becomes verbose." IF this is translated correctly (and/or literally) then what it's saying is: "describing phenomena and chemical reactions in [words] (meaning 'text') [using or expressed in more words than are needed (taken from "verbose" definition)]" and that "by expressing it in sequences of 0s and 1s (i.e. binary) it will not be [using or expressed in more words than are needed]" which is literally impossible. At least in this chapter, he is saying nothing about how the universe "functions" like a mechanical processor and therefore requires "machine language" to function. So, while it is entirely possible that you are actually correct on this matter (that the universe he is in functionally and literally runs on the architecture of a real-world processor -- which is, again, entirely possible because it was a game) this isn't what is being said, and therefore no "conversion into binary" would be required.


Um? Literally this chapter (31) page 13, fourth panel: "The 56-type magic formula describes phenomena and chemical reactions directly in [words], so it inevitably becomes verbose." "My new formula can express those processes in sequences of [0s and 1s]."
From "words" to "binary." He doesn't literally say the words "converted letters to binary," but he does literally say it with "more detail". "New language based on machine coding" is literally binary, by the way. Regardless of any "higher" form of programming, it all boils down to binary (0s and 1s), and he says "sequences of 0s and 1s."
So, for argument's sake, I'll assume he isn't "simply changing letter by letter to their corresponding sequence of 0s and 1s" (because that isn't "exactly" what he says), but instead, he converts the entire "process" into a sequence of 0s and 1s. It doesn't matter. You would still have to take an equal number of 0s and 1s sequentially for absolutely any event you want to describe distinctly. If you have only two events: that's 0 and 1 respectively. If you have four events: 00, 01, 10, 11 respectively. If you have 50,000 that's... well, to describe the number 50,000 you require no less than 16 digits (0000000000000001 as "1", for a visual example).
There are likely a minimum of that many distinct events that would need to be described, and if you include variables into those events (such as location, orientation, velocity, etc) you would need that many more.
So, sure, he doesn't say the words: "letters to binary," but please explain to me what you think this meant if you don't think he was converting something shorter into something VASTLY longer. You say "he wrote a new language based on machine coding to achieve the same result [...] without the bloat of the old system," but he literally says "sequence of 0s and 1s" so there exists no interpretation where he "writes a 'more efficient' language (not using binary) to simply remove 'bloat'" if only because using binary (sequences of 0s and 1s) creates bloat by nature of its existence. Please, I mean this with absolute respect, please explain how you think - given the words he used - he is doing what you said.
Again, Binary (0s and 1s) is never the answer. For efficiency and "shortness" there is always a better solution.


While you are technically correct with the addition of Huffman-like coding, however, that's an extreme stretch for what was said in the manga (unless in the past, what, two years I've forgotten the manga saying something about compression... which is entirely possible). The likelihood that he has done this, as you mentioned, is extremely low because, as you mentioned, it would require him to assess all previously generated spells outright. While it "was a game" this would be feasible as the "number of spells" would be limited to what was originally coded into the game and what the "players" created after. However, once it became a full-on "universe" it certainly is not. He's not a "God" with "God-like" knowledge and mental capacity... and, let's be real for a moment, in a world where "magic exists" and can be "expressed in a 'human-readable' 56-type rune formula" a higher level sentient entity is required to have created it. -- I won't argue against the existence of "magic" in general, but any time "predetermined spoken/written spells" exist this is unnatural. Therefore "something" is required to have "created" it. Versus a world of "magic" where one's "intent" dictates the magic? That's vastly more feasible for a "naturally" occurring universe as it's basically a sentient "mind" exerting their "will" on the universe through the "medium" of "magic". i.e./e.g. Harry Potter, this story, Mushoku Tensei, WoW, etc require a creator or originator for their magic; "Didn't I Say to Make My Abilities Average in the Next Life?!" technically "wouldn't" (even though it is completely upfront about having a creator), Pawn of Prophecy (or the Belgariad and the Malloreon series), or any universe where the "spells" are "similar" but not identical because their "purpose" is solely to "create an image of the desired outcome".
tldr (after "--"): Saying "avera cadavera" while waiving a "magic wand" producing a "death beam" requires a "creator/originator" of magic; 'thinking/willing' "form [orb] of [material (e.g. stone, ice)] at [relative location] and [project at angle and speed]" does not (necessarily) require a creator/originator but simply for the universe itself to "interpret" your "intention".

Finally, as I mentioned to the same person you are responding to, even if he is using "compression" to shorten the length of the spells, converting it from a 56-character set to binary is idiocy. The only time this could possibly be "more efficient" is when the universe runs on physical (real/our) Earth processors because you are utilizing the mechanics of the device it runs on - and therefore "conversion" is not required. As you mentioned everything above "machine language" (i.e. binary) exists because coding in binary is insane, and higher-level programming languages generally have built-in functionality to make things process more smoothly regardless. This chapter basically says that he's taken the "high-level" "programming language" and said, "F it, that's not efficient, let's use BINARY!"
IF the original author (as this is an adaptation after all, and it isn't the mangaka who originated the story) believed that this is, in fact, more efficient, then they clearly don't understand programming, coding, or machine language or much about computer science in general.

P.S. it's entirely possible to do compression without utilizing binary. If a sequence of 0s and 1s can be shortened to "less 0s and 1s" then a sequence of [insert character set here] can be shortened to "less [characters]" in the exact same manner but with [character]^[character] more efficiency. i.e. to abbreviate any sequence of words (in, say, English) you "can" take the first character of each word (an acronym), to do the same thing in binary (0s and 1s) you have to express each of those characters utilizing the required number of digits. Further, to shorten this as in Hoffman coding, for binary, you can only use "0" and "1": so, if there are 50,000 different and unique things to "compress" you have to have a "unique sequence" to represent each one that does not repeat ever. Needless to say, this becomes exponentially easier the more "characters" one has to "represent" these different things...

This is all very wordy, and I don't remember how exactly he explained it in this version of the manga (it's explained in the novels okay), but they do point out in this chapter that he layers the functions of his spells, meaning he is compressing them, and I can't remember if it was mentioned in this manga (would have been at the introduction of Iris) he explains that all his world ending spells were actually compiled and run by a separate computer while he was gaming, that he accessed through macros in game, and was surprised that he still has access to all that in his new brain.

 

[WhimsiCat]

I cannot go on the raws because I cannot speak Japanese so I'm going purely based on the English translation.

English translation that is a bit choppy (admittedly even the RAW are a bit choppy at times)

And you wanna trust that over someone who's checking the RAW...instead of, I dunno, realize maybe this EN translation isn't of the best quality and things aren't expressed correctly....

You do you.

No. The above is not "exactly" what he is saying. I'm not claiming that. But given the positioning and therefore connections between the sentences it is extremely easy to "come to this conclusion." In fact, it is so easy to come to this conclusion that to assume he means anything else is... well... not reading the text. If this isn't what he means, then what do you think he means by these three sentences? Why is he wording it like this and in this manner?

And right before that bubble the topics were:
Old man asking Zelos to use his DECIPHERING METHOD.
Zelos giving the ok, but to use the older formulas for teaching since his improved formula are too dangerous + those older type has been around since long ago.
Old man expressed that couldn't understand Zelos's magic formula even after Celestina wrote it down.
Zelos was impressed Celestina was able to even remember part of the spell.

Why would a conversation about deciphering magic leading into him reminding the audience how the two systems are different might have other interpretation besides 'muh magic use less space'? what a mystery.

Like, it could be that the older system process slower because it's 'verbose' but Zelos's circles requires too much space to be written in practical manner even though it process faster.
He already said all the way back in ch 5 about the amount of text (which had even lower quality TL than this so bleh)
https://mangadex.org/chapter/29377c57-9241-4f0f-959f-d9766a2051a3/5
https://mangadex.org/chapter/29377c57-9241-4f0f-959f-d9766a2051a3/6

 

[pataponnaako]

The thing is, he said nothing about it being less wordy. Only that the processing speed and size of magic formula being DIFFERENT.
Even the translation also use the term "different"

And at least even the torch spell he had Christina activated early on was still the old rune-based spell that he simply removed the useless parts from, he didn't convert it to his new system.

If you've got actual comparison between 'same spell' under the two system do tell, because the parts I've checked in RAW implies he made the new language to create new magics.

Not the person you responded to, but thanks for checking the RAW. I became too preoccupied with the idea of compression that I forgot that other optimization techniques might have been at play here. Some sort of refactoring could also have been involved. The way it was stated in this English translation of the manga lead me to think that some kind of a bit compression was involved and got fixated on that.

So, if I am understanding your point correctly, it's not necessarily that only compression that was done, but rather developing an entirely different way of "writing magic"? I am reminded of that entire "written in C" vs. "written in Rust" debacle. And it's way too over my head as someone who just self-learned some coding.

Perhaps something like instead of saying "Hydrogen combined with oxygen yields water", you can say something like
H₂ + O₂ => H₂O with less characters. This yields better "compression" the more complex the formula.

At any rate, I am hoping that the author had something in store for us about this magic system improvement our MC has made.

This is all very wordy, and I don't remember how exactly he explained it in this version of the manga (it's explained in the novels okay), but they do point out in this chapter that he layers the functions of his spells, meaning he is compressing them, and I can't remember if it was mentioned in this manga (would have been at the introduction of Iris) he explains that all his world ending spells were actually compiled and run by a separate computer while he was gaming, that he accessed through macros in game, and was surprised that he still has access to all that in his new brain.

What? Is he buildng his own "spell function library" he can call upon for his spells? On top of what is ... a cloud server? that executes his spells for him? Maybe I should just turn off my brain and just enjoy what's in front of me. Hahahaha!

 

[WhimsiCat]

So, if I am understanding your point correctly, it's not necessarily that only compression that was done, but rather developing an entirely different way of "writing magic"? I am reminded of that entire "written in C" vs. "written in Rust" debacle. And it's way too over my head as someone who just self-learned some coding.

More or less yes.
Before then the 'world' only understood runics, then when Zelos's magic got accepted by the system in MMO the world now understood that too.
Just speaking different language with the same 'meaning'

 

[yinkyo]

So I guess this is the older version where he has yet to meet his so-called old friends and all that goddesses BS and cockroach of justice thingy ?

 

[grueneraffe]

Not going to lie, when I read him say that converting spells from a( n unknown) character set into binary made the spells "less wordy" I was mostly unable to focus on anything else that the chapter said.
Assume, for a moment, a character set of 26 characters. To convert a single letter into binary (which consists solely of "0" and "1") it would take no less than five consecutive characters (digits: 00001, for example, as "A." and that assumes only upper case letters). To convert a character set such as Japanese, with more than fifty thousand distinct characters? Sixteen consecutive distinct characters (digits: 0000000000000001, for example, as "あ"). (Please note, every f'ing time I try to do math, and post it here I somehow screw up. Someone please check my math. The quantity for "50,000+" characters for Japanese should be correct - see Unicode 16 or ask Google for 50k in binary and count the digits... Anyway).
How is this less "wordy" than a written language? In Japanese there exist single characters for entire words and/or entire concepts and to convert that to binary you have to extend it by fifteen minimum... "1" becomes: "0000000000000001" minimum...
BINARY IS NOT THE ANSWER. BINARY IS NOT BETTER. Binary exists solely because it is far easier to represent everything as "off" and "on" for computers. (Or somewhere below 5 volts as "0" and somewhere above 5 volts as "1" - depending on decade, technology and standard, and, yes, I know more standards exist).

Am I wrong? Am I crazy (with regards to this specifically)?

yeah, this and them being surprised by glass cups and cold ale definitely bothered me a bit.

 

[Rukja]

thanks for the chapter,
seems like arrogant noble will have an accident event soon

 

[Jstar338]

Anyone know why there's 2 adaptations of the same story? Or is there something I'm missing

they made 2 adaptations. No clue why

 

[alaudae]

perfect timing ^^ I had just finished ch. 30 last week, and I really did not want to start reading the version everyone says is worse xD

The next update is going to be at least a year. Last book came out early 2023, and it's annual publishing.
This series is really odd, two publishers using the same source material, different artist. Both scanlations, at least in english, are more than 20 chapters behind.

 

[Seraphus]

Not going to lie, when I read him say that converting spells from a( n unknown) character set into binary made the spells "less wordy" I was mostly unable to focus on anything else that the chapter said.
Assume, for a moment, a character set of 26 characters. To convert a single letter into binary (which consists solely of "0" and "1") it would take no less than five consecutive characters (digits: 00001, for example, as "A." and that assumes only upper case letters). To convert a character set such as Japanese, with more than fifty thousand distinct characters? Sixteen consecutive distinct characters (digits: 0000000000000001, for example, as "あ"). (Please note, every f'ing time I try to do math, and post it here I somehow screw up. Someone please check my math. The quantity for "50,000+" characters for Japanese should be correct - see Unicode 16 or ask Google for 50k in binary and count the digits... Anyway).
How is this less "wordy" than a written language? In Japanese there exist single characters for entire words and/or entire concepts and to convert that to binary you have to extend it by fifteen minimum... "1" becomes: "0000000000000001" minimum...
BINARY IS NOT THE ANSWER. BINARY IS NOT BETTER. Binary exists solely because it is far easier to represent everything as "off" and "on" for computers. (Or somewhere below 5 volts as "0" and somewhere above 5 volts as "1" - depending on decade, technology and standard, and, yes, I know more standards exist).

Am I wrong? Am I crazy (

Not going to lie, when I read him say that converting spells from a( n unknown) character set into binary made the spells "less wordy" I was mostly unable to focus on anything else that the chapter said.
Assume, for a moment, a character set of 26 characters. To convert a single letter into binary (which consists solely of "0" and "1") it would take no less than five consecutive characters (digits: 00001, for example, as "A." and that assumes only upper case letters). To convert a character set such as Japanese, with more than fifty thousand distinct characters? Sixteen consecutive distinct characters (digits: 0000000000000001, for example, as "あ"). (Please note, every f'ing time I try to do math, and post it here I somehow screw up. Someone please check my math. The quantity for "50,000+" characters for Japanese should be correct - see Unicode 16 or ask Google for 50k in binary and count the digits... Anyway).
How is this less "wordy" than a written language? In Japanese there exist single characters for entire words and/or entire concepts and to convert that to binary you have to extend it by fifteen minimum... "1" becomes: "0000000000000001" minimum...
BINARY IS NOT THE ANSWER. BINARY IS NOT BETTER. Binary exists solely because it is far easier to represent everything as "off" and "on" for computers. (Or somewhere below 5 volts as "0" and somewhere above 5 volts as "1" - depending on decade, technology and standard, and, yes, I know more standards exist).

Am I wrong? Am I crazy (with regards to this specifically)?

It could be, and I'm just Making this up, that it is faster because he is only using 2 characters, right?
He is converting the 56 alpha and 10 numeric into just 2 numeric symbols, and because it is a simple on-off/yes-no series, the length is not as important to the casting as the fact that it is only two letters.

Taking an entire sentence and turning it into binary gives you WAAAYYYY more characters, but it is easier and faster to spit out "00100101010001010100101010101" than it is to say "please blaze this shit, bruv."
You would use less magic, amd compacting and layering the 0 and 1 becomes a trivial rask in 3/4 dimensions, where words are actually stuck in a specific format.

The above spell could simply be "0010" when viewed from any direction, where the actual sentence would become illegible.

That's my thoughts, anyway: binary expression of magic would be indistinguishable from .jpg compression, and would visually look similar to a single point; like visual compression of a tesseract.

Then again, I could be the crazy one.
Who knows?
¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Seraphus]

Hey, @AP3P !

Thanks for the TL and Upload!
We be readin outcha!

 

[ryuumajin]

"Yi Lin"? That's quite... an unusual name for the Europe-ish setting.
What is the katakana?