Atashitachi tte Tsukiatteru yo ne!? - Ch. 1

[Lunkli]

Anyways, I said I'd try to keep this one shorter, but I failed. Oops. In conclusion, I can't help but think that you're projecting your own cultural expectations into a culture where they don't apply, which is fine, anyone is bound to do it to some extent, but I think rather than recognizing that, you are instead assuming that the author intended the story to be different from what it was and retconned it, rather than them having a different cultural understanding than you do. This is ultimately why I disagree with your opinion, and I don't see it being reconciled, but I enjoyed the discussion, once again.

I definitely think that a major part of the dissonance here is that the two of us have very different life experiences, and for both of us those are influencing how we look at this scenario and how we interpret this manga. I'm autistic, which has led to me noticing oddities that people take for granted all throughout my life.

And maybe that means I'm overextending sometimes, but at the same time I think that the fact that you've never noticed these things despite how common they are, even cross-culturally, has made you unwilling to consider the possibility that they may be in play here. Like, I might be projecting my own cultural expectations onto this, but I think that you're undeniably doing the same thing, you know?

We have very different worldviews, and that's making it difficult for us to reach a common ground here, though I don't think that's a problem. Understanding how different people view the world is extremely difficult, after all. It's an unrealistic expectation.

 

[TheLostLight]

Like, I might be projecting my own cultural expectations onto this, but I think that you're undeniably doing the same thing, you know?

Yes of course. As I said:

anyone is bound to do it to some extent

The difference though, is that I believe that I'm viewing the application of my own cultural experience critically while contrasting it to my knowledge and experience of the culture that the story is set in, and coming in with reasonably accurate expectations of the story and author, whereas from where I stand, you seem to be applying your own cultural experience carte blanche, and making large assumptions with it which don't apply.

As for:

but at the same time I think that the fact that you've never noticed these things despite how common they are, even cross-culturally

I'll take your word for it that you've experienced it before, but I'm gonna need a source to buy into your claim that it's "common cross-culturally". The fact that you assume my ignorance immediately, rather than considering that we perhaps have different cultures and experiences, is exactly the type of lack of critical thought towards your own viewpoint that I'm referencing, and I suspect it is the source of your dissonance with this manga.

 

[foxxreader66]

This is going to be good!
The concept is basically let’s get two girls who embody the epitome of useless lesbIan’s and have them also be super clingy and battle trying to get together. Absolute Cinema

somebody find every axe and burn them! Or throw them at useless isekai or other trash. Don’t let it near

 

[Lunkli]

The difference though, is that I believe that I'm viewing the application of my own cultural experience critically while contrasting it to my knowledge and experience of the culture that the story is set in, and coming in with reasonably accurate expectations of the story and author, whereas from where I stand, you seem to be applying your own cultural experience carte blanche, and making large assumptions with it which don't apply.

You say that you're approaching your own biases critically, but I really don't think that you are. You're repeatedly unwilling to accept that anything you haven't personally experienced is real and / or commonly occurring, and pushing the burden of proof onto me doesn't absolve you of that.

Like, I could do the same to you, you know? You say that it's common for lesbian women to "read too much into their intimacy with their straight friends, or even receive mixed signals from them only to be shot down in the end," but can you prove that? Can you give a source for that? This would obviously be an unfair thing for me to ask, but you're doing the exact same thing to me.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that we're both projecting our own cultural experiences onto this. You know / believe that it is common for lesbian women to read too much into their relationships with their female friends, I know / believe that it is common for straight men to read too much into their relationships with their female friends. The difference is that I'm not attacking your perspective and assuming it to be false / misrepresented, while you are doing that to me. You've repeatedly made me insist that, yes, men often misunderstand their relationships with woman, while I haven't made you same do the same. (The rest of our arguments are similar, this is just the one where it's easiest to point out the parallels.)

This doesn't mean that you can't think that I'm wrong and that I'm overextending, but you're being insincere if you're going to insist that you're being unbiased and objective where I am not. I've mentioned multiple times that I might be overextending or reading to much into things, but you have not done the same.

Anyways, let's just agree that we're not going to see this the same way and end this here, okay?

 

[TheLostLight]

You're repeatedly unwilling to accept that anything you haven't personally experienced is real

I'll take your word for it that you've experienced it before

I've done exactly the opposite of that. I affirmed your personal experience whereas you denied mine. We are not remotely comparable in this aspect.

You've repeatedly made me insist that, yes, men often misunderstand their relationships with woman

I have never once done such a thing. I have never argued nor implied that men don't misread their relationships with women. This is a complete strawman of my position.

Seeing as this discussion has turned into lazy tu quoque's and terribly misrepresented strawmen, I'm done responding further. All the best.

 

[Lunkli]

I've done exactly the opposite of that. I affirmed your personal experience whereas you denied mine. We are not remotely comparable in this aspect.

I have never once done such a thing. I have never argued nor implied that men don't misread their relationships with women. This is a complete strawman of my position.

Seeing as this discussion has turned into lazy tu quoque's and terribly misrepresented strawmen, I'm done responding further. All the best.

At this point, it seems like you're getting upset just to get upset; Anyone can look back at your comments and see how you've been reacting to my arguments. You even had a whole comment specifically about the example I brought up, where you explicitly say:

"have an extremely hard time imagining this in a het context without invoking casual sex or something along those lines."

Then when I respond to this to tell you again that it is real, you say: (Emphasis mine)

"I have never once known or heard of any man that believed to be in a romantic relationship with a woman only to find out that they were mistaken. I suppose for you it is common, but I personally have a hard time even imagining how that would happen, given the gender expectations I'm familiar with."

I don't know how you can claim that you're not repeatedly insisting that my assertion is wrong. You're insisting that you "have a hard time imagining" this happening, which, while not a literal statement that you don't believe it, is for all intents and purposes a statement that you don't believe it, especially with how strong your language is. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with doing this, but to explicitly say that you're not and to call me calling you out on this a strawman is just grossly dishonest. And, of course, I've never once denied any of your personal experiences. You're literally just lying at this point for reasons I can't really comprehend.

But, yeah, no reason to continue this. If you respond again, I'll probably block ("ignore") you.

(Though, one last thing, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything and I'm not saying you did this on purpose, but isn't it curious how you started acting like this, aggressively trying to paint me as closed-minded and lacking self-reflection, immediately after I said that I was autistic? Before that, you were pretty civil...)

 

[dcdfvr]

ok this looks fun and promising

 

[pureyurionly]

so sweet so cute and pure

 

[Kantsu]

Ayo!? Some appreciation for thicker set girls in MY yuri?
More likely than you'd think!