Chainsaw Man - Ch. 210 - Peace

[SylB]

PEAK PEAK PEAK PEAK

 

[SylB]

Looking at the Mangaplus comments, I don't understand why everyone's so eager to presume Fujimoto's making some political commentary.

this on the other hand is one of the stupidest post i've seen in my thirty years on the internet

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

The clothes string wrapping around Yoru might be a nod to sailor moon of all things.

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

If Death's arrival signals the end of the world drawing near, maybe there's gonna be a nuclear apocalypse? Although I can't see how if only Americans have nukes.

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

Looking at the Mangaplus comments, I don't understand why everyone's so eager to presume Fujimoto's making some political commentary.

What would it even be? "Le America made le bombs, which are le bad and kill le people"? "America revolutionized the war industry"? That's not really "political commentary"-- that's a banal factual statement.

War is literally in love with America for its contributions to war. I don't know how much more obvious it needs to be.

Also legit have not seen anyone use the "le" bullshit since like 2012 and the heyday of 9gag.

 

[daywithoutgames]

some interesting coincidences :

in japanese language :

shi = 四 = 4 / 4th .

also , shi = 死 = death .

her name is shii-chan / shi no akuma = death devil / 4th devil / death horse-man / 4th horse-man / 4th horse-woman .

and war devil is the 2nd horse-woman , and in this chapter 210 , she raises TWO fingers , to form the V sign .

 

[Wildfire_desu]

The more nuanced view is that America has been contributing MUCH MUCH MORE to war on a global scale than just the fights we've picked in the Middle East since 1990 (don't forget we did Desert Storm over a decade before 9/11), or the less direct "world police" angle they take by having so many military personnel stationed around the world in non-active-combat roles (which is what Team America World Police by the South Park guys was lampooning). The US Government has also been heavily responsible for the manufacture of weapons uses by groups on all sides of many, many conflicts.

It's easy to forget that part of what "military-industrial complex" meant is, in fact, the industrial side, aka manufacturing, of weapons. After all, that's a term that's been getting made fun of online since before AOL. But the US government pays for both actual purchasing of guns, tanks, missiles, planes, etc. for their own use, but also for the R&D into developing and improving up weapons that end up sold (another payday!) to everyone else.

So even if we aren't sending our own poor people to kill your poor people, or we don't have ships patrolling your waters, or even if our government didn't sell you the weapons THANKS OLIVER FUCKING NORTH, American money is probably STILL driving your conflict, because we gave Lockheed Martin or whoever the comically large pile of money they spend on building the weapons they sold the people shooting at you.

And the worst part is, none of this is even remotely NEW. It's pretty much been constant since World War 1, and I don't mean when the US officially joined in 1917. And it's not JUST the US that's doing this, but it is MOSTLY us.

I hate having to talk politics in this sort of environment, I just take it very seriously when I do.

i can clearly see you've NEVER read the MIC companies financial reports and NEVER worked for them. also don't know any history. well, I did and I do. american arms manufacturing is on it's last legs. the corporate consolidation over the last 70 years was MASSIVE. boeing (who i worked for) was desperate for clients in 2021, before nazi russia invaded Ukraine full-scale. if not for this war, even though the threat of nazi russia and commie China are STILL MASSIVELY undersetimated, lockheed, raytheon, boeing arms division, and the ONLY tank factory america still has, the Lima Army plant, would either further consolidate or even go down the drain.
i am SO TIRED of both right-wingers and lefties like you spreading lies, despite all the data being public. your ignorance will doom us all.

 

[yurimakesmeuglycry]

The author is Japanese. The history of the reconstituted Japan starts right after two atomic bombs were dropped, with a new constitution written by the orders of the country's new de facto leader, a U.S. general.
Anyone with some knowledge of world history would associate the U.S. with death and war in a modern setting, even more so a Japanese person.

It's absurdly hypocritical and naive. Japan had run wild, raping and pillaging every inch of Asia it could get its hands on for over a decade at that point. When oil reserves ran low, they launched unprovoked attacks against the US and the UK. They're responsible for at least 7 million civilian deaths alone.

Crying about having their murderous rampage stopped is insane. Obsessing over it constantly in manga after the actions of Unit 731, the Rape of Nanking, the brutalization of POWs (over 30% death rate in Japanese camps), sexual slavery across their occupied territory, etc, is naive to the point of stupidity. Every time I see whinging about war in manga, the finger is invariably pointed elsewhere.

 

[catsdontsmile]

It's absurdly hypocritical and naive. Japan had run wild, raping and pillaging every inch of Asia it could get its hands on for over a decade at that point. When oil reserves ran low, they launched unprovoked attacks against the US and the UK. They're responsible for at least 7 million civilian deaths alone.

Crying about having their murderous rampage stopped is insane. Obsessing over it constantly in manga after the actions of Unit 731, the Rape of Nanking, the brutalization of POWs (over 30% death rate in Japanese camps), sexual slavery across their occupied territory, etc, is naive to the point of stupidity. Every time I see whinging about war in manga, the finger is invariably pointed elsewhere.

I don’t think you understand how etched into modern Japanese culture the two atomic bombs are. Its still a fresh scar culturally speaking, you can’t compare it to a nation’s collective past. No one alive today was an adult during japan’s peak warmongering.
And you’re comparing a country’s entire war crimes spanning decades to a press of a button and instantly deleting a town and dooming the survivors to a painfully slow death. Of course the latter is gonna leave a bigger impression and more so on the people who ate the nukes and witnessed one but not the other

 

[Eighty-six]

this on the other hand is one of the stupidest post i've seen in my thirty years on the internet

War is literally in love with America for its contributions to war. I don't know how much more obvious it needs to be.

I just said that. I just dissected that. I pointed out how that's not an actual political commentary because that doesn't have any import. To repeat myself: you would be on to something if the love was shown to be the other way around. As it stands, the most you can extract is a banal statement the likes of "america make bomb, america make war big".

Also legit have not seen anyone use the "le" bullshit since like 2012 and the heyday of 9gag.

You absolutely have-- presumably you're older than the Oppenheimer hype train, which that's directly referencing.

(also, you used 9gag? wouldn't let that happen to me)

 

[profroche]

i can clearly see you've NEVER read the MIC companies financial reports and NEVER worked for them. also don't know any history. well, I did and I do. american arms manufacturing is on it's last legs. the corporate consolidation over the last 70 years was MASSIVE. boeing (who i worked for) was desperate for clients in 2021, before nazi russia invaded Ukraine full-scale. if not for this war, even though the threat of nazi russia and commie China are STILL MASSIVELY undersetimated, lockheed, raytheon, boeing arms division, and the ONLY tank factory america still has, the Lima Army plant, would either further consolidate or even go down the drain.
i am SO TIRED of both right-wingers and lefties like you spreading lies, despite all the data being public. your ignorance will doom us all.

Rare and valuable "just leave the military industrial complex alone!!" post

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

I just said that. I just dissected that. I pointed out how that's not an actual political commentary because that doesn't have any import. To repeat myself: you would be on to something if the love was shown to be the other way around. As it stands, the most you can extract is a banal statement the likes of "america make bomb, america make war big".

My poor man you did not dissect shit. All you did was watch it fly squarely above your head, repeat it in wrong terms and then declare it null and void because it can't fit into your midget-sized skull. Here, I'll make an idiot's version just for you: America is War's favourite place. That's the comment. By discussing a country's effect on the world it is, by definition, political. Is that le clear? (is that how you morons use it I've never done it?)

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

It's absurdly hypocritical and naive. Japan had run wild, raping and pillaging every inch of Asia it could get its hands on for over a decade at that point. When oil reserves ran low, they launched unprovoked attacks against the US and the UK. They're responsible for at least 7 million civilian deaths alone.

Crying about having their murderous rampage stopped is insane. Obsessing over it constantly in manga after the actions of Unit 731, the Rape of Nanking, the brutalization of POWs (over 30% death rate in Japanese camps), sexual slavery across their occupied territory, etc, is naive to the point of stupidity. Every time I see whinging about war in manga, the finger is invariably pointed elsewhere.

It's not only referencing nukes tho, I doubt it's a "poor Japan" kinda thing. War loving America is bigger than nukes. The US has been in a near-constant state of war ever since WW2 and Japan, for all its faults before 1945, hasn't. Whether you think all those wars were just or not doesn't change that they were wars, and that's kinda sorta War's favourite thing.

 

[Eighty-six]

My poor man you did not dissect shit. All you did was watch it fly squarely above your head, repeat it in wrong terms and then declare it null and void because it can't fit into your midget-sized skull. Here, I'll make an idiot's version just for you: America is War's favourite place. That's the comment. By discussing a country's effect on the world it is, by definition, political.

This is what's getting me about this conversation-- most of the people who've taken objection to my position here (admittedly, there's only a few who've done so by response) immediately jumped into unwarranted personal attacks... while stating no more information or argument than what I already assessed. Now, you're insulting me while repeating yourself and me, as if I didn't say what you're pointing out only to argue that it doesn't constitute "political commentary".

At the risk of sounding insulting, myself, the people I see on the internet with this temperament are compensating for an irrational insecurity that they alleviate by trying to cast the media they consume as deeper than it is. Sometimes they don't even appreciate said media's true depths, because they think "mature" is "politics" and psychology concepts.

Yes, I already dissected this, and I already knew you didn't see the comment where I first did because you only quoted the first comment I made. My point has been that any derivable "take-home" statement from the sequence would necessarily be aggressively banal, and I altogether made four hypothetical intended statements in an attempt to understand the perspective.

"America is War's favorite place" is not political commentary. That's what's stated by Yoru, and the reason given by Yoru is that it gave her much of her strength (and beauty). We understand this to be the case as it's juxtaposed with Americans reconstructing nuclear weapons from scratch and using them, even though Chainsawman erased nuclear weapons. The nuclear bomb is perhaps the deadliest class of warfare weaponry, and we also understand that America has been at the vanguard of warfare R&D for nearly a century.

These are utterly basic, historical, and effectively objective statements that aren't going to be reasonably disputed. Probably except for-- ironically-- political reasons. It's of more substance that Yoru (the War Devil, the character) mystically remembered she's an Ameriboo. Also as stated, you would be able to better make the argument that political commentary was afoot if America was depicted as desiring the War Devil-- the inverse of what is in the chapter.

This being understood as political commentary implies an unclear standard for how we're supposed to understand Yoru as a character, because it degrades her into an allegorical symbol when she largely has never been written that way throughout Part 2 (and in fact, practically none of the devils are, despite being based on fears of concepts). When do we understand her as symbol, and when do we understand her as a character, if this is the threshold at which we consider political commentary to be occurring? I can exemplify this point with various examples, but consider the following:

What political commentary is being made when War reflexively jacks off a broken young man in a dank alleyway?

Is that le clear? (is that how you morons use it I've never done it?)

...you even glossed over me explaining the inspiration for that phrasing, which had nothing to do with 9gag. Like, I'm not the one that used 9gag, here-- don't take that out on me.

 

[yurimakesmeuglycry]

It's not only referencing nukes tho, I doubt it's a "poor Japan" kinda thing. War loving America is bigger than nukes. The US has been in a near-constant state of war ever since WW2 and Japan, for all its faults before 1945, hasn't. Whether you think all those wars were just or not doesn't change that they were wars, and that's kinda sorta War's favourite thing.

Japan hasn't been at war because Japan literally can't be at war. They have effectively been demilitarized.

The Korean War and The Persian Gulf War were defensive wars where US allies were attacked. They were not initiated by America.
Nearly every conflict outside of Vietnam and the War on Terror was a joint UN or NATO operation that was not necessarily initiated by America.

 

[Unmotivated-man]

I love this fictional perverted comedic absurd series begin to spark debate about actual America in the comment.

 

[radstylix]

Looking at the Mangaplus comments, I don't understand why everyone's so eager to presume Fujimoto's making some political commentary.

What would it even be? "Le America made le bombs, which are le bad and kill le people"? "America revolutionized the war industry"? That's not really "political commentary"-- that's a banal factual statement.

MangaPlus comments are cancer. I remember some people spamming pro-Palestine shit in One Piece chapters 🙄

 

[profroche]

What political commentary is being made when War reflexively jacks off a broken young man in a dank alleyway?

Hmm, yes, definitely no potential for subtext with the living embodiment of warfare giving an aimless, hopeless young man (who is viewed, and has thus learned to view himself, as only of value in terms of his usefulness as a combat weapon), some fleeting gratification in a form that the young man has spent his entire life believing will give his life meaning but now that it has actually occurred has left him as empty as he's ever been and now even further in thrall of someone who plans to sacrifice his life to turn him into a literal weapon

 

[DarkeLourd]

if not for this war, even though the threat of nazi russia and commie China are STILL MASSIVELY undersetimated, lockheed, raytheon, boeing arms division, and the ONLY tank factory america still has, the Lima Army plant, would either further consolidate or even go down the drain.

Two things. First, that doesn't exactly contradict what I said. If anything, it reinforces it. A war breaks out somewhere else in the world and Congress throws a bunch of taxpayer money at the arms manufacturers. The fact that they were struggling before it has less to do with their own business practices specifically (though they are utterly dependent on sucking the government's teat; the extra money they get selling outside of the US is just a small bonus), and more to do with greater economic factors related to the slow collapse of parasitic capitalism. Demand for ever-increasing shareholder value has surpassed the point where the actual industries that create that value can keep up, so the shareholders have begun cannibalizing their industries to make up for the difference. And it's happening in various sectors across the economy.

The other point is specifically in regards to the tank factory: technology marches on and has started to leave the tank behind. Drone strikes can cover a lot of the same tactical applications as a tank and then some. It's just that the US is not willing to share the full breadth of its technology with Ukraine, so they get the old tech.

And yeah, the Ukraine war is a situation where it's probably a lesser, necessary evil to feed the US military-industrial complex than it is trying to appease Russia or let them run wild over Eastern Europe again, or engaging in the war directly.

 

[Eighty-six]

Hmm, yes, definitely no potential for subtext with the living embodiment of warfare giving an aimless, hopeless young man (who is viewed, and has thus learned to view himself, as only of value in terms of his usefulness as a combat weapon), some fleeting gratification in a form that the young man has spent his entire life believing will give his life meaning but now that it has actually occurred has left him as empty as he's ever been and now even further in thrall of someone who plans to sacrifice his life to turn him into a literal weapon

She went into that alleyway ready to cut Denji's balls off and came out of it having gotten him off. It was the second time she ended up making out with him, by her own will.

Yoru's actual character does not fit anywhere in your proposition. This also completely ignores that Denji came to the conclusion that he was more emotionally gratified by the alleyway session than physically gratified, and that this only endeared him more to Asa/Yoru. It ignores the interplay between him, Asa (who wanted to save him), and Yoru (who at this point only cared about fighting Chainsawman-- not turning him into a weapon-- a goal compatible with Asa's wanting to save him).

Asa also doesn't fit here, despite her feelings for Denji being at least part of the reason why Yoru has been kissing him-- it's strangely apt that your proposition doesn't even use their names.