D Genesis: Dungeon ga Dekite 3-nen - Ch. 49

[MangaDex]

 

[screamdoom]

Infinite food glitch acquired.

 

[MeePotato]

ah fuck, it's the rice field chapters

 

[Oklam]

now that i think about it, what if you take a trained attack dog and his handler, let the handler have a card, then do the same with dog to see what happen, will it be a familiar or an adventurer of it's own, would it evolve? etc etc,

 

[TheOne9387]

When ever I see they're stats I remember just how strong the MC is

 

[Solipsist]

This is around the time I got completely bored with the LN.
The talk about harvesting things in the dungeon is OK, but they just keep farting out more and more business plans, while saying "low profile, low profile...", and not really progressing with them. Just one info dump after the other.

 

[HaikenEdge]

I love that the MCs are researchers first and foremost. Not enough series like this where scientific method is at the forefront.

 

[popinloopy]

Thank you for the chapter! That seems... Optimistic, but not without reason.

 

[MeePotato]

This is around the time I got completely bored with the LN.
The talk about harvesting things in the dungeon is OK, but they just keep farting out more and more business plans, while saying "low profile, low profile...", and not really progressing with them. Just one info dump after the other.

so realllll, I pretty much skim over those parts till I get to the more interesting parts

 

[rachjumper]

they're not spoiling the dogs enough
goodest boys right there

 

[outinthegardener]

Kill God, take His chair.

 

[Knighto]

Kill God, take His chair.

they weren't subtle at all, that it's the new chair for the MC

 

[vvilbo]

This is around the time I got completely bored with the LN.
The talk about harvesting things in the dungeon is OK, but they just keep farting out more and more business plans, while saying "low profile, low profile...", and not really progressing with them. Just one info dump after the other.

The biggest thing for me is like ok so I guess the reason no one else ever did this was they couldn't like bring a car / not as strong as MC? Like wouldn't the big American clan or the Russians think about this kind of thing as well? Or is it only because of the strength / skills of MC that they have the freedom to take these courses of action?

 

[CypherHoof]

ah fuck, it's the rice field chapters

Sorta?
I mean, they will start talking about it, but it will be some months before they even get around to planting anything.
Main things coming up next will be (in spoilers, for obvious reasons)

Spoiler: (1)

DPowers the company

Spoiler: (2)

DR Stats

Spoiler: (3)

The TV "Producer"

Mostly a talking shop part of the novel (storyline has LOT of that, unsurprisingly) but significant development time for some of the secondary characters, a couple of new appearances, and Miyoshi gets to be even more evil - so what's not to love.
But again, stuff that is mostly text, not action, so won't play well in the manga format.

 

[CypherHoof]

The biggest thing for me is like ok so I guess the reason no one else ever did this was they couldn't like bring a car / not as strong as MC? Like wouldn't the big American clan or the Russians think about this kind of thing as well? Or is it only because of the strength / skills of MC that they have the freedom to take these courses of action?

This is explained at one point in the novel but in short - nobody else is interested enough.

The MCs are researchers, not explorers; they are driven by the need to find out, to try new things just to see how they work.

Most national teams have two focusses - either to explore dungeons with an aim of beating and destroying them, or to map out and exploit resources from the dungeons.

Most private explorers are about maximizing return - they are in it for the money, and the thrill of adventure.

Where the MCs would hammer on (say) goblins, find innovative new ways to kill goblins more efficiently or cost effectively, and build tables on goblin drops (not that there are any, yet) and behaviour patterns, your average explorer would just train on goblins for a day or so, then move on to other floors. IF a given enemy were profitable to farm (good drops, not too hard to kill) they may kill them intensively for a while, but they will also likely then move on looking for greater profit or less boredom.

It's not that nobody else could, its just that they don't.

they're not spoiling the dogs enough
goodest boys right there

Unsure. Miyoshi is definitely on Team Dog, and dotes on the Arthurs quite a bit. They totally deserve it of course, having saved Miyoshi's life on several occasions, most recently putting their own lives on the line to save her from her own stupidity on that mountaintop.

they weren't subtle at all, that it's the new chair for the MC

Given Miyoshi, its more likely "take His Chair, scrap it for cash"

now that i think about it, what if you take a trained attack dog and his handler, let the handler have a card, then do the same with dog to see what happen, will it be a familiar or an adventurer of it's own, would it evolve? etc etc,

The handler - much like any other human, I guess? might be interesting to see what they could summon if also given Darkness VI
The dog - going by the precident of pigs, it would have its own stats and ability to accept orbs as an adventurer, rather than the dependency that the Arthurs have.

 

[Beregorn]

The biggest thing for me is like ok so I guess the reason no one else ever did this was they couldn't like bring a car / not as strong as MC? Like wouldn't the big American clan or the Russians think about this kind of thing as well? Or is it only because of the strength / skills of MC that they have the freedom to take these courses of action?

There are mainly three reasons why.
First of all, it doesn't work like they are hoping it does: if the things harvested from the dungeon do respawn, then things brought from the outside should logically disappear. The dungeon is just resetting at its default state. I think they even mentioned something like that at the beginning, when they had to justify why there is no internet connection in the dungeon.

Second, it's not economically viable: MCs, as OP as they are, they have YET to reach the zones where it is even possible to farm. Can you imagine the price of a military expedition lasting days, with dozens of people risking their life, just to bring back a couple kilos of grain?

Lastly, it would be pointless anyway: I posted a detailed analysis a couple of chapters ago, showing that even if all the adventurers of the world slaved away farming steel, completely ignoring the logistic issues, they would barely make a bump in the global trade rates. For food, they would amount to less than a rounding error.

Mechanization and economy of scale have multiplied the human labor so much, that magic itself has a trouble competing.

 

[CypherHoof]

There are mainly three reasons why.

First of all, it doesn't work like they are hoping it does: if the things harvested from the dungeon do respawn, then things brought from the outside should logically disappear. The dungeon is just resetting at its default state. I think they even mentioned something like that at the beginning, when they had to justify why there is no internet connection in the dungeon.

The slimes eat anything that isn't kept under observation 24/7. That would not apply on "safe floors" of course, but would apply to (say) copper wires on unsafe floors.

Well, maybe. one of the things to test would be if copper that is a "mining" drop, pulled though dies to make wire, would be considered "dungeon material" and not subject to slime attack.

Drops obviously don't respawn if you take them, so they may not be immune to slimes, either.

However, given the nature of "lazy evaluation" that may lead to the first exporer to visit a floor or cavern "setting" what the contents of that floor are (probably why the 10th floor looks like a horror movie set and the 18th floor mountain has a god sitting on it) It shouldn't be impossible for an explorer to go looking for an already existing rice paddy on (say) the 15th floor, then transplant as many of the growing wheat plants to the second floor as necessary, where they can be harvested repeatedly.

Yoyogi's second floor is 5km wide. You could fit a LOT of rice plants in there, you just need to find a way to stop the slimes eating the harvester.

Second, it's not economically viable: MCs, as OP as they are, they have YET to reach the zones where it is even possible to farm. Can you imagine the price of a military expedition lasting days, with dozens of people risking their life, just to bring back a couple kilos of grain?

Logistics of moving grain from the 32nd floor (say) to the surface are hard.
(well, not for the MCs, but for normal people )

Logistics of moving grain from the second floor to the surface are near trivial.

so there is positional value.

Also consider - if you get residents on the 32nd floor, you are going to need to feed them. Instead of shipping food DOWN 32 floors, it would be really handy if you could grow it locally.

Lastly, it would be pointless anyway: I posted a detailed analysis a couple of chapters ago, showing that even if all the adventurers of the world slaved away farming steel, completely ignoring the logistic issues, they would barely make a bump in the global trade rates. For food, they would amount to less than a rounding error.

Depends on quantity.
Drop rate on steel wouldn't make it worth moving (ditto coal) unless you invert the logistics (getting fuel and raw materials down to the safe floors will be a nightmare - handy if you have them spawn in easy walking distance, though)
Following is spoiler from the LN:

Spoiler

31st floor drops iron; that sounds less than useful, but Kei points out that iron is a dungeon material and could be used to create nails, while dungeon trees can create wood....
32nd floor is a safe floor. If you want to have residents, you need building materials

Mechanization and economy of scale have multiplied the human labor so much, that magic itself has a trouble competing.

As I have said elsewhere, most materials wouldn't be worth farming as drops.

On the other hand, an entire field of food that can be harvested daily would be equivilent in production volume to many hundreds of fields that can be harvested only once or twice per year, and wouldn't need fertilizer, water, insecticide etc etc. The difficulty is in creating a respawning, slime-proof field in the first place (because if it were easily reachable in a third world dungeon, you could make do with manual labour to harvest with hand held tools; mechanization is good when the cost of labour is high, but less so when the labour is cheap or free.)

 

[Beregorn]

The slimes eat anything that isn't kept under observation 24/7. That would not apply on "safe floors" of course, but would apply to (say) copper wires on unsafe floors.

Well, maybe. one of the things to test would be if copper that is a "mining" drop, pulled though dies to make wire, would be considered "dungeon material" and not subject to slime attack.

Drops obviously don't respawn if you take them, so they may not be immune to slimes, either.

However, given the nature of "lazy evaluation" that may lead to the first exporer to visit a floor or cavern "setting" what the contents of that floor are (probably why the 10th floor looks like a horror movie set and the 18th floor mountain has a god sitting on it) It shouldn't be impossible for an explorer to go looking for an already existing rice paddy on (say) the 15th floor, then transplant as many of the growing wheat plants to the second floor as necessary, where they can be harvested repeatedly.

Yoyogi's second floor is 5km wide. You could fit a LOT of rice plants in there, you just need to find a way to stop the slimes eating the harvester.



Logistics of moving grain from the 32nd floor (say) to the surface are hard.
(well, not for the MCs, but for normal people )

Logistics of moving grain from the second floor to the surface are near trivial.

so there is positional value.

Also consider - if you get residents on the 32nd floor, you are going to need to feed them. Instead of shipping food DOWN 32 floors, it would be really handy if you could grow it locally.


Depends on quantity.
Drop rate on steel wouldn't make it worth moving (ditto coal) unless you invert the logistics (getting fuel and raw materials down to the safe floors will be a nightmare - handy if you have them spawn in easy walking distance, though)
Following is spoiler from the LN:

Spoiler

31st floor drops iron; that sounds less than useful, but Kei points out that iron is a dungeon material and could be used to create nails, while dungeon trees can create wood....
32nd floor is a safe floor. If you want to have residents, you need building materials

As I have said elsewhere, most materials wouldn't be worth farming as drops.

On the other hand, an entire field of food that can be harvested daily would be equivilent in production volume to many hundreds of fields that can be harvested only once or twice per year, and wouldn't need fertilizer, water, insecticide etc etc. The difficulty is in creating a respawning, slime-proof field in the first place (because if it were easily reachable in a third world dungeon, you could make do with manual labour to harvest with hand held tools; mechanization is good when the cost of labour is high, but less so when the labour is cheap or free.)

If we assume a 5km square, that's 2500 hectars: Japan's rice fields are 1.5 millions hectars, China 29 millions, india 47 millions. And you have to farm that 2500 hectars by hand.

Also, either you have plants that sprout and grow, and once harvested they are gone, or you have a respawn/reset mechanics, and then your new plants don't grow at all, but just disappear when the level is resetted. The only way for it to work, would be to find a level already planted and ready to be harvested.

 

[CypherHoof]

If we assume a 5km square, that's 2500 hectars: Japan's rice fields are 1.5 millions hectars, China 29 millions, india 47 millions. And you have to farm that 2500 hectars by hand.

Maybe?

Expected mechanic is that a field ready to harvest exists; you harvest it, and some time later, it respawns, ready to harvest again. The difficulty would be getting to that point, but you wouldn't need to "farm" just harvest.

If you break a branch off a tree, then after it respawns, you can break the same branch off the same tree again - repeat indefinitely, just with rice not wood.
Further, the "respawn rate" of the Japanese rice fields is once or twice per year. What would the respawn rate of a dungeon field be? once per day? once per hour? you need to multiply the per-harvest production by the respawn rate to reach the expected yearly production (and for "drops" of course, by the metrics of kills per hour, and drop rate)

Also, either you have plants that sprout and grow, and once harvested they are gone, or you have a respawn/reset mechanics, and then your new plants don't grow at all, but just disappear when the level is resetted. The only way for it to work, would be to find a level already planted and ready to be harvested.

Exactly, yes. (well, not actually true in the book, but if you FOUND a field already ready to harvest, and transplanted it to the second floor - or if you are on floor 32, floor 33) then you could just harvest, and only harvest forever.

In the book:

Spoiler

"Dungeonized" seeds can be planted and grown. The first time they are damaged (i.e. harvested, but also so much as having a leaf cut) they respawn to the point before the damage, but stop growing.
This mechanism allows you to farm the crop once, then harvest repeatedly. The envisioned mechanism is to have a combine harvester and a racetrack-shaped wheat field; the harvester just goes around the ring, harvesting, 24/7 and forever.
The comment in the book for this "Ukemochi" system was:
"If the respawn cooldown is thirty seconds, we could feed all of Japan with fewer than thirty acres...”
Key elements here are that the dungeon entity WANTS more food production, and that Kei holds the mei king skill

 

[Daviidcou]

This is such a unique Manga.

I like that it stays pretty "grounded"