Danshi Koukousei wa Kyou mo Onaka ga Suiteiru - Vol. 1 Ch. 3 - Pudding A la Mode

[MangaDex]

 

[Mweeheehee]

@givemersspls - I think it's a bit of an overreaction on the naming convention. Modern Japanese food and naming conventions in general is a mish mash of foreign influences and names, adapted and reformulated for local tastes (example even in this chapter being that the pudding is not too sweet and paired with Japanese confections). It'd be rare, if at all, to find these puddings called "custard" in japan. They are simply referred to as pudding- and yes, it is a custard, but it is NOT named that. There are MANY other non-japanese cultures that have loan words and phrases that are the same that describe foodstuffs and recipes that the respective countries would call incorrect/non-traditional or as you are pointing out, just flat out wrong, from THEIR perspective.

Think of the specific usage of the word "Pudding" itself in England and GBR- it refers to dessert courses, as a whole. Sticky toffee pudding, a national dessert of England itself, is not custard at ALL, but a leavened CAKE (and allegedly learned from Canadian sources since it was made with leavening powder rather than classic sponge method, as was tradition).

As such, it seems fine to the translation as pudding. To nitpick it as "custard" as the only acceptable translation would seem actually more incorrect- part of it is method of cooking/formulation of ingredients (and there are certainly "puddings" that use the same ingredients in a myriad of proportion and cooking methods that are not the classic "custard" steamed/flan, etc style).

 

[Choco_Pudding]

I want to be clear, after people got so passionate about pudding vs custard, that this is not a complaint; but I facepalmed (and laughed) when Adachi suggested they try the recipe with ice cream next time. It's totally hilarious because "à la mode" actually just means any dessert served with ice cream. So what they were having technically wasn't à la mode and Adachi's suggested variation was the real deal.

And about pudding vs custard:

Spoiler

I don't personally care about the difference between pudding and custard. But as a translator, I had to weigh in on this because I do personally care about translation, and the person before me said something quite ridiculous from a translation perspective.
You see, it really does not at all matter how the dish is referred to in Japanese. If you want to make that argument, then heck, the entire manga is in Japanese. All of the words they use are different there! But no one's complaining that they didn't spell curry "karéi" last chapter. Because that's what translators do: They translate. The translator probably just didn't know that the difference between a pudding and a custard is eggs, saw the word pudding, saw a drawing of something that looks like a pudding, and wrote down pudding. It did not have and very much should not have had anything to do with the fact that the difference is not made in Japan.
Edit: Upon rereading, it seems person before me may have been implying that that dish has somehow been modified enough that it has become a different dish, and therefore the Japanese name is acceptable. However, considering that, aside from possibly adjusting the sugar content (something I frequently do as well) the dish has not been modified in the slightest, that argument doesn't hold up for me either.

 

[sarshi]

dunno why u all debating here..
if you go to japan and asking for pudding, that's what u gonna get, like seriously? u didn't know that and u complaining? hmmm

 

[Mweeheehee]

Ah, then misunderstood the framing of the initial complaint. If it is from a translation standpoint, I can see the disagreement and why there is support for it to be called custard- yet, I still feel like there isn't a direct need to change it to custard. I'm not entirely opposed to it either, just that even from the issue of translation it seems like a forced fit. Even if the issue is that the English (and assuming US based English) word custard is more accurate because it physically represents a classic custard specifically - I still feel that may be a bit too hard-lined. There is interpretation involved in any translation, and given the fact that this is a niche food manga and within Japan it is certainly never called custard, but as a pudding (and maybe another assumption that the reader knows this?), it still doesn't seem so egregious to name it pudding- language being mutable and all. Otherwise this becomes an impossible argument that translations for all japanese loan word usage for Yoshoku cuisine and modern foods must be "accurate" and remain static and inviolable.

Perhaps this could have all been sidestepped if there were a TL note mentioning it's custard in the more classic sense, but is termed pudding in japan for those who didn't know? To be fair, I certainly do appreciate accuracy in translation as much as the next reader, and know personally how difficult it is to translate languages, so I didn't mean to cast any sort of judgment for nitpicking and am sorry if it came off as such. Food stuff manga translation certainly tweaks me as well- I def was commenting on what I saw as translation issues in the manga "sleepy bartender (barmaid?)" with regards to liquors, etc =P

 

[tseng]

For what i know Custard is a culinary preparation that is made with milk or cream + egg yolk (sugar too i think), and there is desserts that use custard as a base to be made namely be, Flan, Pudding, Cream Pie, Creme Brulee, and some others, well that is what i know, beside that pudding and custard thing being called different in some countries, like commonwealth countries and uk vs us naming of stuff.

 

[AnonDePlume]

Wow, didn’t think I’d see such an intense discussion of the differences between custards and pudding, but yeah, the dish in question is both pudding and a custard. Pudding by definition (well, one of its many definitions) is a dessert with a creamy texture, which custards fall under. The specific type of pudding made in the chapter is called a creme caramel, or flan.

 

[AnonDePlume]

@givemersspls I’m not sure using that article you linked best illustrates your point considering the last paragraph outright says that there’s overlap between the two

 

[miyako19]

@Choco_Pudding a la mode means "with ice cream" in the US but not in Japan though.

 

[miyako19]

In my country, we called it "flan", never pudding or custard. I don't care about which name a translator used since manga are meant to be read from a Japanese's perspective.

 

[Mweeheehee]

hah, well, I certainly didn't expect this to pop off into such a discussion either, but hey, that's what forums are for! =D And I do enjoy going down etymological wormholes on merriam webster and the like from time to time and food history and culinary terms are always of interest to me personally so I am happy to engage =)

@givemersspls - I think I finally see your point, in particular the usage difference with regards to the exact word in translation. Perhaps it's my own tic, the opposite of your original issue, that I didn't really see a problem with it. It personally strikes me as odd to actually use custard here.

I commented on another post in a manga that mentioned the oft seen japanese food "hamburg" that someone in the comments seemed OUTRAGED that it was not called HAMBURGER/BURGER, to which I pointed out it is simply not the same thing and cited this link https://norecipes.com/hamburg-steak-hambagu/ to explain why. I point to that as the reason I still find the custard naming to be a strange fit, yet perhaps this is a matter of both flexibility of language and personal interpretation. I've often seen that particular dish (hambagu) translated as hamburg (steak added sometimes) in manga, and left as such. But if we are to be stricter about it, it would be better, and in the case of this discussion, a matter of accuracy, to call it "salisbury steak", as that is what it would be known as in US English. If it were simply a matter of ingredients and prep, then we are left with really REALLY narrow definitions of a dish (and the ever questionable issue of "authenticity" as it pertains to cuisine, and as we've established, much of modern japanese food is not of a local nature). Much as foodways change with migration and outside influence (eg names of Italian food vs American-Italian food ), so does language. In this particular instance, I don't know that naming it "custard" actually IS more accurate than just going with "pudding" (or purin).

I don't know that it would help my point, but since the mention of "custard" and naming, I think of the confusion/specificity of Ice Cream within the US. Some are "custard"/egg ice creams, others are not, but they are all still recognizable to general public as ice cream, yet the FDA and labeling guidelines have strict rules as to how they are labeled, but NOT how they are marketed. (Seriouseats.com has pages upon pages about these confusing distinctions) Pop, soda, cola, depending on the region within the US itself all mean the same thing, but also don't. Again, perhaps this is a digression, but I think it's all rather "Rose by any other name is still a rose" at this point =D

Ah, miyako19 actually brought up the other point (actually 2!) in relation to naming/translation conventions- a la mode in its meaning, but more importantly the idea of the perspective. I think this again goes back to translator discretion and interpretation. In Japan, it would be called pudding/purin, and I imagine the translator has given the reader leeway to understand why the translation is left as such. Perhaps its because a custard dessert is so often seen translated as pudding in other scanlations that it was left as such, but I do think the idea of who the original work is trying to represent counts as well.

 

[VawX]

So they're eating that room temperature mmm...~?

 

[reika]

It looks like flan though? But I'm more confused with the "a la mode" part since there's no ice cream.

 

[nmyhv1]

I like wall of texts but it's a simple issue. It's a set custard very similar to flan, called purin in japanese. Purin being just pudding, hence being translated as pudding. I'd keep it as pudding, since you wouldn't translate something like omurice as omelette rice.

 

[CalmCalamity]

Love the food and fluff! After reading this I want to go make it, but I can’t because the information is incomplete. I wish there was a full recipe for the ‘pudding’. 🍮✨

 

[nmyhv1]

@givemersspls it's just the short form of pudding, either is fine, whichever you like the sound of
omurice just rolls off the tongue, like pokemon and digimon

 

[nmyhv1]

@givemersspls well it is a custard since it's thickened with egg, but it's called pudding, an egg pudding if you will. much like flan/creme brulee. You can really call it either a custard or pudding, since although the english words have a defined meaning, it's being used to describe something which isn't english. It's just the issue when there's no direct 1 for 1 translation for words like this. Calling it "flan" would be a cheap fix but not one that truly conveys the meaning of what the dish actually is, since it's something so unique at this point that "purin" might as well be considered the actual name.
With that being said, to clarify, I'd translate it personally as "purin" just as how I would leave something like "omurice" or "tonkatsu" or an even something like "karaage" which is literally fried chicken but just the japanese method.

on the other side of the argument, foods like korokke should 100% be translated as croquettes

I can see what you mean by the turkey comp, since they're both poultry and these are both thickened milk/cream dishes.

 

[nmyhv1]

@givemersspls I 100% agree that it shouldn't be translated as "pudding", the only options I see are "flan" "custard" or just "purin", the only problem with custard being that it's too broad of a term, same can be said about pudding (which is wrong anyway since it's literally a custard)
i've seen ningen translated as humankind/mankind/men too

 

[lexy]

@nmyhv1 hey I like your omurice comment, nice comparison

 

[nmyhv1]

@lexy I like that you liked my omurice comment