This is simply weird.
People use the word “bloody” all the time. It's not archaic. It's not uncommon. It's apparently the third most commonly used swear word in the U.K. in 2020, down from first in 2010. It's an extremely common, normal word and it's well suited as a translation of “nado” exactly because it's one of the rare intensifiers that can find it's way in a posh register similar to “nado”.
It's a normal English word, there's nothing “modern” about it; the word goes back to the 1600s in this usage and I, frankness be, think you have no idea what original Japanese fiction sounds like if you object to “modern” translations. The kinds of translations you like are completely fake and don't match the tone of the original lines at all. Have you ever read any Japanese fiction in the original language and have any idea what it sounds like?
And no. They seem to be French royalty given the names. But the original lines were in Japanese and I translated it to English. “bloody” is a very common English word.
Setting. Original work from Japan. Adapting to english.
Seeing how well read you are one would be amiss to think that you wouldn't spot exactly how one thing contradicts another.
Because right here:
They're part of a subculture that exists outside of Japan, not inside of Japan, which is why they're fake. It's a common translation style where people translate actual Japanese fiction with words such as “anime” or “manga” in it that simply don't exist in Japan. Well, there is a Japanese word for “anime” but it's almost never used by anyone; there is no Japanese word for “manga”.
This fake translation style can be recognized by:
- Japanese characters somehow use words such as “anime” and “manga”.
- All character speak in textbook language and never use any particular slang
- No character has role-type language, they all sound the same.
Whereas actual Japanese lines are more like:
- There are no words for “anime” or “manga” in common use in Japan. Japanese people do not make the cultural distinction.
- Characters heavily employ slang, street language, and informal registers
- Characters have very stereotypical, role typed language to suit their character.
These are not "fake" translations, they are called "adaptation".
When you are translating something with plethora of slang, while you find it not ideal, if you actually think on why they are translated into neutral (I'd even call neutered) form you should understand. It is both creating a point of no friction for users who might not be able to relate to said slang as each culture has its own and by far not everyone is on the same page. But also prolongs the art's lifespan.
However, by limiting it with your preferred pronouns you limit its existence.
I can see that. It's a style I use when no English word exists that covers the nuance of the Japanese one. But I favor keeping as close to the original lines and the meaning they express as possible. When Japanese people refer to physicians with “先生” they stress how learned they are, not their exact occupation so I favor keeping that in the translation where possible.
There are places where it can't be done such as that I tend to translate “お客様” as “Sir,” when addressing a customer. This is not ideal because even though it reflects speaking to someone of superior status well, it does not reflect that this is specifically a title used for a customer, but anything else feels very awkward, “master” does not. It's a term English persons use to address learned persons to show respect for their academic or artistic achievement; it's simply not common to do so with physicians.
And this is a nice example of something called - Adaptation of original work.
Not really. In practice, the words “漫画” “コミック" and “コミックス” are entirely interchangeable except the last one of the three is somewhat more informal. One could argue the first two could be translated to “strip” and the last one to “comics” to emphasize this but I think “strip” is far too formal in English to be used as a general translation for the first two. Translating “漫画” to “manga” and “コミックス” to “comics” is absurd in any case, that's not what they mean by any stretch.
It's a common translation style where people translate actual Japanese fiction with words such as “anime” or “manga” in it that simply don't exist in Japan.
Well, there is a Japanese word for “anime”
However, if the distinction should be made, then “コミックス” refers to a single volume of a serialization, and “コミック” refers to a magazine that runs multiple serializations at the same time, but this is not a distinction people in Japan generally observe and more of a technical thing, but it's for this reason that many magazines have “コミック” in their official title showing that it has nothing do with whether it be Japanese or not.
Just wanted to throw it out there. Also, yea I know, katakana is used for adapted foreign words.
The meaning is left for cultural interpretation. There's nothing wrong with it.
This is exactly the type of translation I object to, where translators translate words based on the sound, not on the meaning, as in:
- “ハンバーグ” to “hamburger”; it doesn't mean that; it means “salisbury steak”
- “アニメ” to “anime”; it doesn't mean that; it means “cartoon”.
- “ジューズ" to “juice”; it doesn't mean that; it means “sweet drink”
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=コミック
As you can see, almost all of them are Japanese
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/スパイダーマン#漫画
This goes into adaptation as well.
The more well-read a translator is, the better distinguish they can do without injection of self-imposed "accuracies" that limit the work. Or at least I thought so before. But apparently that does not work well in practice.
The word “漫画” is used liberally on the Japanese Wikipedia page for Spider-Man.
There is no Japanese word for “manga”. One says “日本の漫画” or “Japanese strip” when needing to make the distinction but Japanese people rarely do so because such an idea does not live in their culture. Most Japanese people aren't even aware that in English the word “manga” and “anime” mean “Japanese strip” and “Japanese cartoon”; Japanese people pretty much never talk about “manga” or “anime”.
In practice, the words “漫画” “コミック" and “コミックス” are entirely interchangeable
You are actually doubting that “bloody” is a “real world” at this point?
Registerless is not a word. (I've even used bloody as a pun at the end.) Also, if you are about to quote that it is commonly used around you, well sorry to burst your bubble. Because it's a very small bubble and even internet is having issues comprehending it.
The article and the part I quoted which you omitted in your quote establishes well that the word was used in prose written by the most upper of classes.
The article does not contribute to the topic.
No, I put it in conversations where the original characters use similar words that indicate strong emotions such as “なんか”, “なんて” or “など” and translate things such as “車なんかいらない” to “I don't need a bloody car.".
Just want to remind you that Exclamation mark exist for a reason. "I don't need a car!" has just as strong implication without over burdening one's senses.
You seem to have absolutely no conception of the idea that some translators are trying to capture the tone and aggressiveness level of the original lines opposed to turning original Japanese fiction into this “subculture” as you call it that exists outside of Japan which does not in any way resemble what actual Japanese fiction sounds like.
Also felt like quoting myself there:
This is a gripe I have in general with your use of misnomers.
Some people lost it when Nagatoro said “sus” but the reality is that the character in that line was using a fairly slangy word for “acting suspicious” and the characters lines are full of teenage slang anyway. — Japanese has that.
And it's a prime example of how ill-defined translations can be, instead of coming up with a solution or avoid it altogether. Adapting it to the current meme-speak that not everyone is aware of. It puts an artificial limiter to the current generation of readers or worse yet, until the "sus" falls out of use. Which it already did.
The entire point of translating or adapting a work is to make it as accessible to as many people as possible while preserving its original meaning. And while claiming of doing so, you begin to deviate it in the way that is personally palatable to your tastes.
Sure, it is great if you can implement detail like in the hamburger example. But I don't understand why it should ruin the flow of the rest of the work due to your own whimsical wants.
