@jangankangkung only after killing her, right?
Dungeon Seeker - Vol. 4 Ch. 27
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Was this supposed to make us pity her? Because I think her story makes her even worst.
Even if she was mind-controlled to stab Junpei in the back (not shown in the manga, by the way), she still tortured and killed an innocent young girl and her mother...
What the fuck in Junpei actually doing, listening to her story... patiently waiting for like 15 minutes to let her finish... WTF?!?
@jangankangkung
Please use the god damn spoiler tag when you're actually spoiling shit... it's the button with the crossed out eye (the third from the right)...
It's really easy to use...
Even if she was mind-controlled to stab Junpei in the back (not shown in the manga, by the way), she still tortured and killed an innocent young girl and her mother...
What the fuck in Junpei actually doing, listening to her story... patiently waiting for like 15 minutes to let her finish... WTF?!?
@jangankangkung
Please use the god damn spoiler tag when you're actually spoiling shit... it's the button with the crossed out eye (the third from the right)...
It's really easy to use...
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She betrayed him in a horrible way and I understand his wish for revenge, but back then she did it out of self-preservation and he knows that. (The mind control thing in the WN goes even further and makes her even innocent at that time.) He wanted to get back at her in the manga, but I cant remember him wanting to kill her. (Maybe I just can't remember that part.) Her betrayal was forced by the circumstances and while revenge is due, killing her for that is going to far....,but she went on a murder spree afterwards. I see why see cracked, but that's the person she is right now.
Well, in the end she is powerful and wants to kill him. She is fair game.
@jangankangkung: Please use the spoiler tag, because that is a major one if true.
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Well, in the end she is powerful and wants to kill him. She is fair game.
@jangankangkung: Please use the spoiler tag, because that is a major one if true.
[spoiler]Your text.[/spoiler] BBCode Documentation (post/comment formating)
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I wish she would not die fast but to be tormented more slowly.
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@givemersspls We're not supposed to forgive her; sympathy/pity do not equal forgiveness. They're not mutually inclusive.
For instance, I pity her, because nobody should have to go through what she did. The dialogue and scenes heavily imply that, in addition to being a sex slave so thoroughly "trained" that responds even when her mind is absent, she was passed around to people who had a penchant for cutting up their fucktoys, which leads me to wonder just how often she was literally torn apart only to be stitched back together again for her next "customer"? Nobody is coming out of that sane. Especially since there's no real mention of just how long it actually lasted, but seems to have been years.
And I understand her reasoning, to a degree. After being made a slave, her entire existence was nothing but pain and suffering, which she believed was partly her atonement for what she did to Junpei, as her monologue stated; she then believes that his torments are even greater than hers and that, like her, he would welcome the release of death, so she sets out to "save" him by ending his suffering. A mercy kill, basically.
I also, again to a degree, understand her killing that dude who rescued her, because he was one of the guys she went off with, so she believes he's culpable in her suffering; she's not exactly wrong, since the gang was apparently still together when what's-his-face got "bored" of her and sold her off. Oh, sure, he was "worried" about her ever since then, but he didn't actually object, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say he's just as guilty as what's-his-face for her situation.
And again, I also understand her going after what's-his-face's wife and kids. She went through (likely) years of hell because of him and she's supposed to forget it all because he's "changed" and has a family now? Why should he get to live a carefree, fulfilling life when he's the source of basically all of this series' suffering? But torturing just him wouldn't be enough to fully impart the suffering he's caused, so she goes after his family first.
We're supposed to understand why she did those things: she's a broken mess that believes killing Junpei will free him from his suffering. But we're not supposed to forgive her, because understandable or not, what she's done is monstrous and deserves death in its turn.
As for imagining if she were male, we really don't have to, considering Kaifuku Jutsushi no Yarinaoshi is a thing; same with Nidome no Yuusha, which has a similar premise. Most of the comments can be boiled down to "cringe", "edgelord", or complaints about the MC just being a savage dick who's not worth the ink he's written on (more or less). There's also, to a degree, Shield Hero, but that one's never gotten the kind of flak the others have because the betrayal happened on screen instead of through flashbacks, though you still get tons of comments about how stupid Naofumi was for letting Bitch live.
EDIT: Sorry for the long post; I didn't realize how long it actually was until I hit submit.
For instance, I pity her, because nobody should have to go through what she did. The dialogue and scenes heavily imply that, in addition to being a sex slave so thoroughly "trained" that responds even when her mind is absent, she was passed around to people who had a penchant for cutting up their fucktoys, which leads me to wonder just how often she was literally torn apart only to be stitched back together again for her next "customer"? Nobody is coming out of that sane. Especially since there's no real mention of just how long it actually lasted, but seems to have been years.
And I understand her reasoning, to a degree. After being made a slave, her entire existence was nothing but pain and suffering, which she believed was partly her atonement for what she did to Junpei, as her monologue stated; she then believes that his torments are even greater than hers and that, like her, he would welcome the release of death, so she sets out to "save" him by ending his suffering. A mercy kill, basically.
I also, again to a degree, understand her killing that dude who rescued her, because he was one of the guys she went off with, so she believes he's culpable in her suffering; she's not exactly wrong, since the gang was apparently still together when what's-his-face got "bored" of her and sold her off. Oh, sure, he was "worried" about her ever since then, but he didn't actually object, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say he's just as guilty as what's-his-face for her situation.
And again, I also understand her going after what's-his-face's wife and kids. She went through (likely) years of hell because of him and she's supposed to forget it all because he's "changed" and has a family now? Why should he get to live a carefree, fulfilling life when he's the source of basically all of this series' suffering? But torturing just him wouldn't be enough to fully impart the suffering he's caused, so she goes after his family first.
We're supposed to understand why she did those things: she's a broken mess that believes killing Junpei will free him from his suffering. But we're not supposed to forgive her, because understandable or not, what she's done is monstrous and deserves death in its turn.
As for imagining if she were male, we really don't have to, considering Kaifuku Jutsushi no Yarinaoshi is a thing; same with Nidome no Yuusha, which has a similar premise. Most of the comments can be boiled down to "cringe", "edgelord", or complaints about the MC just being a savage dick who's not worth the ink he's written on (more or less). There's also, to a degree, Shield Hero, but that one's never gotten the kind of flak the others have because the betrayal happened on screen instead of through flashbacks, though you still get tons of comments about how stupid Naofumi was for letting Bitch live.
EDIT: Sorry for the long post; I didn't realize how long it actually was until I hit submit.
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@givemersspls Ah, you are correct. And after I read your comment a few times to make sure I was replying to each point individually; this is why I shouldn't comment before bed.
Anyway, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you, per se, so much as I was with the way your comment seemed (to me) to say that we shouldn't pity her at all and that the horrible things she did somehow erases what she went through and devalues her reasoning; I'm not saying that's how you meant it, but that's how I read it, which is probably due to tons of comments that were meant like that. Somewhere along the line, I conflated sympathy with pity, rather than understanding (though that definitely got caught in the crossfire) because it seems a lot of people believe they're the same and yet, here I am, making that same mistake myself.
I would, however, disagree that she brought this on herself. She certainly deserves some kind of comeuppance for betraying Junpei and being accessory to attempted murder (since I think what's-his-face did the actual pushing into the dungeon, but it's been so long I can't remember and I'm too tired to go look at the moment), but I think most people would agree that what she ended up actually getting was far too cruel; having been made a regular old slave would have been plenty, I think.
I'm conflicted over betraying her savior, to be honest; yeah, it was an ugly thing to do considering he did save her, but does that act, years down the line, negate his initial compliance in her being made a sex slave? The phrase "too little, too late" does exist, after all. Plus, if Junpei is entitled to his revenge against her for betraying him, is she not likewise entitled to her revenge against those who condemned her to years of suffering?
Anyway, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you, per se, so much as I was with the way your comment seemed (to me) to say that we shouldn't pity her at all and that the horrible things she did somehow erases what she went through and devalues her reasoning; I'm not saying that's how you meant it, but that's how I read it, which is probably due to tons of comments that were meant like that. Somewhere along the line, I conflated sympathy with pity, rather than understanding (though that definitely got caught in the crossfire) because it seems a lot of people believe they're the same and yet, here I am, making that same mistake myself.
I would, however, disagree that she brought this on herself. She certainly deserves some kind of comeuppance for betraying Junpei and being accessory to attempted murder (since I think what's-his-face did the actual pushing into the dungeon, but it's been so long I can't remember and I'm too tired to go look at the moment), but I think most people would agree that what she ended up actually getting was far too cruel; having been made a regular old slave would have been plenty, I think.
I'm conflicted over betraying her savior, to be honest; yeah, it was an ugly thing to do considering he did save her, but does that act, years down the line, negate his initial compliance in her being made a sex slave? The phrase "too little, too late" does exist, after all. Plus, if Junpei is entitled to his revenge against her for betraying him, is she not likewise entitled to her revenge against those who condemned her to years of suffering?
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welp, she ended up getting gang raped as expected. Her despair is worse than his tbh. His life has been pretty gucci
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Phew, the dialogues are so edgy I almost got cut!
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@unk0damnation i suppose you walk outside your home with one of those giant bubble things to avoid getting cut by the slightest bit of dark fantasy. and that if you by some miracle happen to slip on something like Goblin Slayer you'd shatter to a thousand pieces like glass.
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Just cut off her limbs Junpei no need to kill her uwu
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This might have actually stirred my emotions a bit if she had been under mind control or some kind of coercion when she betrayed the MC. Now it just looks like she was playing the villain from the start and was driven mad by the consequences.
She has been punished more than enough though. Time to just put her down.
She has been punished more than enough though. Time to just put her down.
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@jangankangkung Learn how to use the tag, you retard.
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@TheStuffedUnicorn i guess adults can be angsty too then.
that, or stress caught up with me and made me very grumpy. i think it's the latter.
that, or stress caught up with me and made me very grumpy. i think it's the latter.
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@Wolvenworks Funny that I love Goblin Slayer. It's a well written gore fest and pure hype. This? I'm reading this for the guilty pleasure.
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