Futoku No Guild - Vol. 1 Ch. 1.1 - I'll Give It Everything I Have!

[Shankao-Edge]

Really long post ahead, be warned:
Oh the localization argument, here is the thing, one of the biggest appeals manga has, is that its Japanese, its a window to another way of seeing and understanding the world, exposing yourself to something different to your own truly expands the mind, why the fuck are you consuming media from another culture if at the end of the day you want it changed to align with yours? You not only do a disservice to the material, but to yourself as well. Sure some stuff is untranslatable, especially the pun and kanji humor they like to use all the time, thats what translation notes are for (which they don't like using most of the time anyway, opting to use either cringy or shitty meme/topical humor that will grow stale in a week.) Other stuff like honorifics and cultural stuff (i.e: Food names, names of places, names of artifacts, cultural practices, etc. etc.) you can pick it up with enough critical thinking, most of us did back in the day when fansubs where the only thing we got. For fucks sake they have been doing this with videogames for years and its incredibly annoying (look up all the meme shit they added to yakuza's translation as an example). Also i am Latin American, i grew up with Latin American dubs, unlike the crappy american dubs, the works didn't need to be adapted, they only changed the language, the rest was left as is and we loved it, and hey its thanks to us that anime got a foothold internationally in the first place.
Sure we all know that artists in general get too little of a cut for their work, unless we see contracts we won't truly know if western releases truly gets them money or if any at all, but they are always behind convenient NDAs, even if we bought the Japanese raws, we don't really know how much the publishers take from the artist, that's why i will always advocate to donate directly to the artist when possible, if an artist you like doesn't have something like that, urge them to make it available, always try to cut off as many slimy middle men as possible.

I agree, fan translations are flawed, some are incredibly so, which is to be expected, fan translators get by on donations mostly, therefore our standards are different with them, one thing is doing a flawed work for free, another is to ask money for a flawed work, when you buy something you expect it to be good, well, i hope you do, otherwise, what the fuck is wrong with you? When it comes to free stuff, we can tolerate it, but, something fan translations have over "official" ones is in its name, fan, i know fan translators personally, some do it for fun, others as a way to improve their Japanese skills, at the end of the day most of them care about the work somewhat. Its not the same case for official ones, when you ask for money the game changes, bad translations, typos, grammar, shitty localization, that shit doesn't fly anymore, if you consider yourself an educated consumer, you should have standards, the more leeway you give, the more they take, don't believe me? Look at AAA games. And then my next point, "official" always lack something, passion, when a translator goes on a rant on twitter to justify something stupid they did you can tell they are defending their ego not the work, not even Hanlon's razor can justify it, many of the ones who work on "official" don't care, and others, hate the fans.
If i were you i wouldn't hold my breath now that they picked up the series, they can just as well leave it in the bin after a while, you said it yourself "likely off-putting to a lot of people" that can and will be used against it, and because they still hold the rights, they can go after anyone who wants to keep it going.
At the end of the day, i am happy that someone has a silver lining, i just have seen too much bullshit, so forgive me for being a little jaded.

Oh my, lets see, remember when squeenix first released their app? Censored as if it was meant for the middle east, with ridiculous paywalls to have access to 1/3 of a chapter at a time? That wasn't a mistake, it was testing the waters to see what bullshit they can get away with.
Remember when crunchy used theirs subscribers money to fund a shitty wanna be anime that nobody wanted?
Remember when they sneaked in feminazi stuff in maid dragon? The "big brudder" thing in Higurashi? All the stuff they took out of the Chaos Head remake? All the censorship in Samurai Maidens? The changing of words in the Chrono Cross Remaster to sound more "gender inclusive"? How they pressured the creator of Senran Kagura to self-censor to pander to american sensibilities so much he up and left? Forgive me for having pattern recognition.
Trends cannot be understated, they are symptoms of something worse.
You are not helping creators by buying official manga, you are helping the publishers, you are only doing it to feel good about yourself, is it so hard to look up if the creator accepts donations? Or is it so hard to ask fellow fans to convince the creator to accept money directly from us? Do they do commissions? We can do international transactions easily now, what's stopping you?
Insult me and call me dramatic all you want, i donate to several artist's directly, because i want to see them work in what they like, and i want to make them know some of us care enough to go to them directly, even if the Colombian peso isn't much after exchange, i try, if that makes me an evil pirate who only wants to read stuff for free? I plead guilty.
If any who i answered to read this far, even if i didn't change your mind, i am proud of you for taking the time, knowing i can share my thoughts with someone else is always fun.

I'm a Spanish main too and while I do get your point, it's also not quite as valid as you may want it it be. For starters, you don't have proper American views, so saying how something should be translated to a culture that's not even yours is kind of a weird point to convey, don't you think? Not to say, the main idea of localizing something is no have a broader audience, not just appeal to fans, so if they want to make it easier to grasps for "weeblets" or more casual fans, then they are completely on their right to do so. Once again, this supports the creators of the manga, so it's kinda the best bet they have.
-
Gentle reminder, if you think the site is just making money out of getting the rights on the manga, just remember the translators themselves who need company approval get an even smaller cut, it's a demanding job that's often not well paid in comparison to fan translation that just have to work on a specific manga or have a group of people with some easy ways to communicate or get feedback, so in a way, not really the faults of the translation team for it.
-
Last thing, I enjoy having civilized debates about this too, but throwing so many insults in the middle makes it hard to tell if you are enjoying it, having a tantrum or just being too entitled at your opinion, no offense, but maybe you could try to tone that down a little.

 

[Jadeite_McSwag]

For starters, you don't have proper American views, so saying how something should be translated to a culture

The problem with this is I and a lot of other people aren't looking for it to be "translated to a culture" we just want it translated to our language, with the Japanese culture preserved lol

Not to say, the main idea of localizing something is no have a broader audience, not just appeal to fans, so if they want to make it easier to grasps for "weeblets" or more casual fans, then they are completely on their right to do so.

Sure, but again, a lot of people aren't interested in that, so we don't really support it when these lame companies come in with their "official" releases, which contain all the issues previously discussed with them, and make it the only way to "morally" digest a series and support the creator. It becomes either mediocrity or nothing, since the scanlatiors are deterred or are even forced to stop.

Once again, this supports the creators of the manga, so it's kinda the best bet they have.

I gotta wonder how much of it actually makes it back to the creator once everything is said and done, and after the English companies take their cut for localizing/publishing and the translators get paid and ect.

 

[rotateurowl]

I'm a Spanish main too and while I do get your point, it's also not quite as valid as you may want it it be. For starters, you don't have proper American views, so saying how something should be translated to a culture that's not even yours is kind of a weird point to convey, don't you think? Not to say, the main idea of localizing something is no have a broader audience, not just appeal to fans, so if they want to make it easier to grasps for "weeblets" or more casual fans, then they are completely on their right to do so. Once again, this supports the creators of the manga, so it's kinda the best bet they have.
-
Gentle reminder, if you think the site is just making money out of getting the rights on the manga, just remember the translators themselves who need company approval get an even smaller cut, it's a demanding job that's often not well paid in comparison to fan translation that just have to work on a specific manga or have a group of people with some easy ways to communicate or get feedback, so in a way, not really the faults of the translation team for it.
-
Last thing, I enjoy having civilized debates about this too, but throwing so many insults in the middle makes it hard to tell if you are enjoying it, having a tantrum or just being too entitled at your opinion, no offense, but maybe you could try to tone that down a little.

Never toning it down, that's how i talk, sorry brother/sister, zero compromises on that front, if a swear can add the necessary impact so be it, if someone feels insulted? Que coman mierda por ser tan maricas.
It's sad to see a fellow latino be so tamed as to not use swears in common talk, did your masters take away your bite?
Having the rights for international distribution is far too much power, yes you have the ip,what you do with it is more important, let's say for example an american company, i don't know, fucks up an ip so much any semblance of merchandising and distribution in an entire region is pretty much dead (Like they did with Saint Seiya in North America), as a fan, wouldn't you want something you like be given the same respect and care it received during its creation through the world?
What american experience? Do you think americans are so stupid as to not be able to understand the nuances of another culture without it having to be watered down first? Don't you think thats patronizing?
If they really wanted something to suit their tastes, then why not instead of butchering an international work, they make something like it with the same themes instead, that would fit the culture better right? Oh right they tried, they sucked (look up american Sailor Moon).
Either create your own or adapt faithfully, otherwise go fuck yourself.
If you want something from another country then be ready to see stuff you don't understand, you can always look it up later, you have the internet for fucks sake.
If "official" translators ever actually do a good job on a consistent basis, then we will talk about them and the money they deserve, otherwise, fuck them, most of them are there because of diversity quotas, not because they have the skills, and if they actually were willing to engage with the fans instead of always attacking us, we would gladly help them when needed.
As i said before, if you like the artist donate to them, don't wait for a corpo to "promise" they will give them a cut, if you just wait twidling your thumbs for papa corpo to show up, you are no better that the mindless nintendo or disney consumer.
Maybe to you pussyfooting around each other's opinions is "civilized debate" sorry marica, we have been nice for far too long, if we the fans don't attack and complain when it's needed nothing will happen.

 

[knight_evangel]

Really long post ahead, be warned:
Oh the localization argument, here is the thing, one of the biggest appeals manga has, is that its Japanese, its a window to another way of seeing and understanding the world, exposing yourself to something different to your own truly expands the mind, why the fuck are you consuming media from another culture if at the end of the day you want it changed to align with yours? You not only do a disservice to the material, but to yourself as well. Sure some stuff is untranslatable, especially the pun and kanji humor they like to use all the time, thats what translation notes are for (which they don't like using most of the time anyway, opting to use either cringy or shitty meme/topical humor that will grow stale in a week.) Other stuff like honorifics and cultural stuff (i.e: Food names, names of places, names of artifacts, cultural practices, etc. etc.) you can pick it up with enough critical thinking, most of us did back in the day when fansubs where the only thing we got. For fucks sake they have been doing this with videogames for years and its incredibly annoying (look up all the meme shit they added to yakuza's translation as an example). Also i am Latin American, i grew up with Latin American dubs, unlike the crappy american dubs, the works didn't need to be adapted, they only changed the language, the rest was left as is and we loved it, and hey its thanks to us that anime got a foothold internationally in the first place.
Sure we all know that artists in general get too little of a cut for their work, unless we see contracts we won't truly know if western releases truly gets them money or if any at all, but they are always behind convenient NDAs, even if we bought the Japanese raws, we don't really know how much the publishers take from the artist, that's why i will always advocate to donate directly to the artist when possible, if an artist you like doesn't have something like that, urge them to make it available, always try to cut off as many slimy middle men as possible.

I agree, fan translations are flawed, some are incredibly so, which is to be expected, fan translators get by on donations mostly, therefore our standards are different with them, one thing is doing a flawed work for free, another is to ask money for a flawed work, when you buy something you expect it to be good, well, i hope you do, otherwise, what the fuck is wrong with you? When it comes to free stuff, we can tolerate it, but, something fan translations have over "official" ones is in its name, fan, i know fan translators personally, some do it for fun, others as a way to improve their Japanese skills, at the end of the day most of them care about the work somewhat. Its not the same case for official ones, when you ask for money the game changes, bad translations, typos, grammar, shitty localization, that shit doesn't fly anymore, if you consider yourself an educated consumer, you should have standards, the more leeway you give, the more they take, don't believe me? Look at AAA games. And then my next point, "official" always lack something, passion, when a translator goes on a rant on twitter to justify something stupid they did you can tell they are defending their ego not the work, not even Hanlon's razor can justify it, many of the ones who work on "official" don't care, and others, hate the fans.
If i were you i wouldn't hold my breath now that they picked up the series, they can just as well leave it in the bin after a while, you said it yourself "likely off-putting to a lot of people" that can and will be used against it, and because they still hold the rights, they can go after anyone who wants to keep it going.
At the end of the day, i am happy that someone has a silver lining, i just have seen too much bullshit, so forgive me for being a little jaded.

Oh my, lets see, remember when squeenix first released their app? Censored as if it was meant for the middle east, with ridiculous paywalls to have access to 1/3 of a chapter at a time? That wasn't a mistake, it was testing the waters to see what bullshit they can get away with.
Remember when crunchy used theirs subscribers money to fund a shitty wanna be anime that nobody wanted?
Remember when they sneaked in feminazi stuff in maid dragon? The "big brudder" thing in Higurashi? All the stuff they took out of the Chaos Head remake? All the censorship in Samurai Maidens? The changing of words in the Chrono Cross Remaster to sound more "gender inclusive"? How they pressured the creator of Senran Kagura to self-censor to pander to american sensibilities so much he up and left? Forgive me for having pattern recognition.
Trends cannot be understated, they are symptoms of something worse.
You are not helping creators by buying official manga, you are helping the publishers, you are only doing it to feel good about yourself, is it so hard to look up if the creator accepts donations? Or is it so hard to ask fellow fans to convince the creator to accept money directly from us? Do they do commissions? We can do international transactions easily now, what's stopping you?
Insult me and call me dramatic all you want, i donate to several artist's directly, because i want to see them work in what they like, and i want to make them know some of us care enough to go to them directly, even if the Colombian peso isn't much after exchange, i try, if that makes me an evil pirate who only wants to read stuff for free? I plead guilty.
If any who i answered to read this far, even if i didn't change your mind, i am proud of you for taking the time, knowing i can share my thoughts with someone else is always fun.

I'm just gonna stop you at one of your first excuses.

Unfortunately, literally every avenue of supporting any product in any form, outside of extremely small business will always have some sort of "publisher" involved. Of course you aren't supporting the original creator, you're only adding credence to the idea that people want to see more of said product in your region. Once it gets popular enough you start to see actual QOL support for it. That's why anime dubbing isn't 4kids tier anymore.

But this type of shit goes in circles and it's about 20 years too late for me to have the actual argument with anyone anymore. All I know is, in every forum I've seen since I've first started reading manga, the only people so passionate about hating publishers are lowkey people who are just broke.

I hope you find the person willing to have lengthy exchanges with you (I suggest Oeconomist, the dude is very knowledgeable and surprisingly concise despite his lengthy sentences. He just simply has a lot to say and is willing to be thorough about his explanations).

When I said you were being dramatic, that was the boomer in me. I don't mean it as an insult, I mean it as constructive criticism. I really do think you're dramatic, simple as that. Whether it's a good thing or not is up to you.

 

[rotateurowl]

I'm just gonna stop you at one of your first excuses.

Unfortunately, literally every avenue of supporting any product in any form, outside of extremely small business will always have some sort of "publisher" involved. Of course you aren't supporting the original creator, you're only adding credence to the idea that people want to see more of said product in your region. Once it gets popular enough you start to see actual QOL support for it. That's why anime dubbing isn't 4kids tier anymore.

But this type of shit goes in circles and it's about 20 years too late for me to have the actual argument with anyone anymore. All I know is, in every forum I've seen since I've first started reading manga, the only people so passionate about hating publishers are lowkey people who are just broke.

I hope you find the person willing to have lengthy exchanges with you (I suggest Oeconomist, the dude is very knowledgeable and surprisingly concise despite his lengthy sentences. He just simply has a lot to say and is willing to be thorough about his explanations).

When I said you were being dramatic, that was the boomer in me. I don't mean it as an insult, I mean it as constructive criticism. I really do think you're dramatic, simple as that. Whether it's a good thing or not is up to you.

Is not about money is about quality, make it so "Official" =/= Trash, and we can address piracy.
If you can get the same quality for free, why bother with "official" then? Make those fuckers deserve the price tag.
Piracy is an issue of service not price.
Giving money to someone mediocre will only encourage more mediocrity, when publishers actually care and put the work in, then we won't need to find ways around them to support artists.
I know all donation platforms take their cut, but at least they can't fuck with the artist work directly, and that to me, is better than enabling mediocre publishers who fuck with ips.
"People who are just broke" Sorry only good honest work deserves money, having standards doesn't mean being broke.
By the way Mr Moneybags, if you have all that money, then what the fuck are you doing here then?

 

[Diondpr]

i just read it in their site, and it's bad. and tbh, idk why tf they would split chapters into parts other than they're hungry for more money

 

[knight_evangel]

Is not about money is about quality, make it so "Official" =/= Trash, and we can address piracy.
If you can get the same quality for free, why bother with "official" then? Make those fuckers deserve the price tag.
Piracy is an issue of service not price.
Giving money to someone mediocre will only encourage more mediocrity, when publishers actually care and put the work in, then we won't need to find ways around them to support artists.
I know all donation platforms take their cut, but at least they can't fuck with the artist work directly, and that to me, is better than enabling mediocre publishers who fuck with ips.
"People who are just broke" Sorry only good honest work deserves money, having standards doesn't mean being broke.
By the way Mr Moneybags, if you have all that money, then what the fuck are you doing here then?

"only good honest work deserves money" Oh yeah? Are you typing on a phone made by outsourced overseas production? Most of that money went to a "publisher" too. That statement is a slippery slope, and yet another argument I'm not getting into.

I'm dead, you thought I was implying I have more money than anyone here? I don't know you. The richest people steal from the poorest, no one's ever above that shit. I was only saying the first to complain are always the cheapest. This is something I learned watching my cheap ass parents, who would likely get just as defensive as you if I called them out. :3


For the record, I typically buy volumes. I could post a picture of the latest thing I've bought if that'll satisfy you. "Yuri is My Job Vol. 1" to be specific. I'm here because I'm a kleptomaniac to be completely honest. Takes one to know one. :}

 

[Jadeite_McSwag]

That's why anime dubbing isn't 4kids tier anymore.

It's definitely one or two, or even several notches up, but even still it is full of mediocrity and a lot of times cringe.

All I know is, in every forum I've seen since I've first started reading manga, the only people so passionate about hating publishers are lowkey people who are just broke.

Generalization, and just wrong a lot of the time. Many people are willing to pay for a good quality release, but just in general, a lot of people feel that if they are going to read a series, especially if they are paying to read it, they shouldn't be stuck with some sub-par and/or localized garbo.

Like Owl man said, it's not about money, it's about quality. There is a lot to be desired with these "official" releases, as well as the services that provide them, and voicing this fact is just that.

 

[Jadeite_McSwag]

i just read it in their site, and it's bad. and tbh, idk why tf they would split chapters into parts other than they're hungry for more money

Not surprised lol

And yeah, splitting chapters into 3 parts is super lame

 

[rotateurowl]

"only good honest work deserves money" Oh yeah? Are you typing on a phone made by outsourced overseas production? Most of that money went to a "publisher" too. That statement is a slippery slope, and yet another argument I'm not getting into.

I'm dead, you thought I was implying I have more money than anyone here? I don't know you. The richest people steal from the poorest, no one's ever above that shit. I was only saying the first to complain are always the cheapest. This is something I learned watching my cheap ass parents, who would likely get just as defensive as you if I called them out. :3


For the record, I typically buy volumes. I could post a picture of the latest thing I've bought if that'll satisfy you. "Yuri is My Job Vol. 1" to be specific. I'm here because I'm a kleptomaniac to be completely honest. Takes one to know one. :}

PC actually, i don't like phones.
We can talk about products, patents, copyright laws and the ethical stuff behind all the Chinese sweatshops all you like, which none of us want cause this is a manga forum.
You can't lump all products together, be it entertainment, goods or services, the only thing they all share is that they are supposed to do what is advertised, right? You don't buy something that doesn't do what you want it to do.
I don't like phones, and yet i have one to receive calls, it does that well enough, no complains there.
With stuff like entertainment is not the exact same, if anything, entertainment is just a hobby, and you spend whatever you want in it, if anything, they are luxury items, and as luxury items, we have standards for them, yet, you bought those mangas because you like them, right? Or simply because you like the author? Then wouldn't you want the mangas you bought with your own money to be the best they can be? Even if they aren't masterpieces, in the very least, wouldn't you want for the artists vision to be respected?
Sure the whole money won't get to the artist, but his whole work won't be appreciated either, i donate to artists, because i respect the hussle, i don't have to look up if they accept donations, or give my paypal info to patreon,ko-fi,substar, etc. And yet i am willing to do it.
Now with the official publishing, why do they pick a series? This one for example, the anime sold pretty well in the BD market, don't know exact manga numbers, they are just chasing trends, then they realize it doesn't really fit with their "moral/cultural values" and either drop it or change it to fit with that, completely eliminating what made it great in the first place.
We can't even trust them to respect western ips (Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings,etc.), do you really think we can trust them to handle non-western ips?
They did it to the Isekai Reviewers anime, americans did with Sakura Card Captors, Saint Seiya, Ghost Stories (at least the dub is hilarious), by this point we all accept that English dub is garbage with unnecessary politicization, yet they are trying to do the same with subs, manga and LNs, justifying all this nonsense is simply you denying you are willing to pay for crap, when they see they can get away with crap, don't complain it gets worse.
Its almost as if you haven't been paying attention in the last 20 years, which is to be expected from a boomer to be fair.
Edit: Forgot to mention, "Supporting the author" is not an excuse to buy trash.

 

[Shankao-Edge]

The problem with this is I and a lot of other people aren't looking for it to be "translated to a culture" we just want it translated to our language, with the Japanese culture preserved lol


Sure, but again, a lot of people aren't interested in that, so we don't really support it when these lame companies come in with their "official" releases, which contain all the issues previously discussed with them, and make it the only way to "morally" digest a series and support the creator. It becomes either mediocrity or nothing, since the scanlatiors are deterred or are even forced to stop.


I gotta wonder how much of it actually makes it back to the creator once everything is said and done, and after the English companies take their cut for localizing/publishing and the translators get paid and ect.

Oh I absolutely don't care for forced views on manga either, that's why I rather keep studying Japanese, seriously, translating manga is one of the best practices you can get apparently, but localization companies just care about selling it more. I'd rather they just print it out and have fans be able to choose if they want to buy it instead.
-
I don't say I support these companies either, but the golden rule is and will ever be "If you like it, support the official release", so if there's a way to do that, I just gotta stick by it. I mean, Manga is usually around 12 or so bucks depending on the size, so I'd normally suggest people to buy a few volumes just to collect and support the creator, but I'm pretty sure that pays even less
-
I'm a writer myself and for this kind of media, the publisher takes like 45% or so, the author depending on the deal could get a 15% at best, which if the site gets good views it would be great, except no one would choose to spend what could be a streaming subscription on reading a manga, meaning this type of service is pretty much made to fail from the concept and instead of getting thousands of people wanting to read a manga's latest chapter, would rather stay behind a few weeks until they are able to exploit the system and read it for free, which is something these type of sites do a lot. In short, that "15% at best" turns into 5 bucks every few hundred reads, with the publisher making triple the amount and that 40% left is for maintenance, paying workers, ETC. Of course, if you consider you are having thousands of those and the company is handled by just a few guys paying a small degree of royalties, you are talking about directives getting 5K a month out of barely lifting a finger
-
In short, the business model sucks but it pays the author at least a little, it's not made to directly support the author similarly to Japanese publishers except that's just divided between director, editor, printing and creator. Also marketing is a bitch and I hate my life.

 

[rotateurowl]

Oh I absolutely don't care for forced views on manga either, that's why I rather keep studying Japanese, seriously, translating manga is one of the best practices you can get apparently, but localization companies just care about selling it more. I'd rather they just print it out and have fans be able to choose if they want to buy it instead.
-
I don't say I support these companies either, but the golden rule is and will ever be "If you like it, support the official release", so if there's a way to do that, I just gotta stick by it. I mean, Manga is usually around 12 or so bucks depending on the size, so I'd normally suggest people to buy a few volumes just to collect and support the creator, but I'm pretty sure that pays even less
-
I'm a writer myself and for this kind of media, the publisher takes like 45% or so, the author depending on the deal could get a 15% at best, which if the site gets good views it would be great, except no one would choose to spend what could be a streaming subscription on reading a manga, meaning this type of service is pretty much made to fail from the concept and instead of getting thousands of people wanting to read a manga's latest chapter, would rather stay behind a few weeks until they are able to exploit the system and read it for free, which is something these type of sites do a lot. In short, that "15% at best" turns into 5 bucks every few hundred reads, with the publisher making triple the amount and that 40% left is for maintenance, paying workers, ETC. Of course, if you consider you are having thousands of those and the company is handled by just a few guys paying a small degree of royalties, you are talking about directives getting 5K a month out of barely lifting a finger
-
In short, the business model sucks but it pays the author at least a little, it's not made to directly support the author similarly to Japanese publishers except that's just divided between director, editor, printing and creator. Also marketing is a bitch and I hate my life.

Yeah man i have heard the horror stories of the writers being conned into incredibly shitty splits, others in which they steal the ips from the writers, or the classic "Do it for exposure." That's why i respect the hussle, and part of why i have this intense hatred towards publishers.
It's cool you are a writer, but keep in mind that being an artist is incredibly thankless, many die penniless, or become famous after dead, art is something you do because you wan it, not because money, but it helps, this is why out of sheer concern i urge you to open ways for people to support you, do commissions if you can, but never compromise your vision, believe me, integrity alone can get many people interested in your work, people prefer someone with genuine passion for what they do rather than some cookie-cutter stick to the formula generic writer, and believe me passion shows itself in your works, you don't have to change anything, keep good grammar tho, it shows professionalism.
Thanks to the internet we no longer need to bow to the publishers to get known, i personally know authors who started writing with cringy fanfiction, but got the people interested, and that small following helped them self-publish some books, and make some decent money, so keep at it.

 

[Grailm]

Really long post ahead, be warned:
Oh the localization argument, here is the thing, one of the biggest appeals manga has, is that its Japanese, its a window to another way of seeing and understanding the world, exposing yourself to something different to your own truly expands the mind, why the fuck are you consuming media from another culture if at the end of the day you want it changed to align with yours? You not only do a disservice to the material, but to yourself as well. Sure some stuff is untranslatable, especially the pun and kanji humor they like to use all the time, thats what translation notes are for (which they don't like using most of the time anyway, opting to use either cringy or shitty meme/topical humor that will grow stale in a week.) Other stuff like honorifics and cultural stuff (i.e: Food names, names of places, names of artifacts, cultural practices, etc. etc.) you can pick it up with enough critical thinking, most of us did back in the day when fansubs where the only thing we got. For fucks sake they have been doing this with videogames for years and its incredibly annoying (look up all the meme shit they added to yakuza's translation as an example). Also i am Latin American, i grew up with Latin American dubs, unlike the crappy american dubs, the works didn't need to be adapted, they only changed the language, the rest was left as is and we loved it, and hey its thanks to us that anime got a foothold internationally in the first place.
Sure we all know that artists in general get too little of a cut for their work, unless we see contracts we won't truly know if western releases truly gets them money or if any at all, but they are always behind convenient NDAs, even if we bought the Japanese raws, we don't really know how much the publishers take from the artist, that's why i will always advocate to donate directly to the artist when possible, if an artist you like doesn't have something like that, urge them to make it available, always try to cut off as many slimy middle men as possible.

I agree, fan translations are flawed, some are incredibly so, which is to be expected, fan translators get by on donations mostly, therefore our standards are different with them, one thing is doing a flawed work for free, another is to ask money for a flawed work, when you buy something you expect it to be good, well, i hope you do, otherwise, what the fuck is wrong with you? When it comes to free stuff, we can tolerate it, but, something fan translations have over "official" ones is in its name, fan, i know fan translators personally, some do it for fun, others as a way to improve their Japanese skills, at the end of the day most of them care about the work somewhat. Its not the same case for official ones, when you ask for money the game changes, bad translations, typos, grammar, shitty localization, that shit doesn't fly anymore, if you consider yourself an educated consumer, you should have standards, the more leeway you give, the more they take, don't believe me? Look at AAA games. And then my next point, "official" always lack something, passion, when a translator goes on a rant on twitter to justify something stupid they did you can tell they are defending their ego not the work, not even Hanlon's razor can justify it, many of the ones who work on "official" don't care, and others, hate the fans.
If i were you i wouldn't hold my breath now that they picked up the series, they can just as well leave it in the bin after a while, you said it yourself "likely off-putting to a lot of people" that can and will be used against it, and because they still hold the rights, they can go after anyone who wants to keep it going.
At the end of the day, i am happy that someone has a silver lining, i just have seen too much bullshit, so forgive me for being a little jaded.

Oh my, lets see, remember when squeenix first released their app? Censored as if it was meant for the middle east, with ridiculous paywalls to have access to 1/3 of a chapter at a time? That wasn't a mistake, it was testing the waters to see what bullshit they can get away with.
Remember when crunchy used theirs subscribers money to fund a shitty wanna be anime that nobody wanted?
Remember when they sneaked in feminazi stuff in maid dragon? The "big brudder" thing in Higurashi? All the stuff they took out of the Chaos Head remake? All the censorship in Samurai Maidens? The changing of words in the Chrono Cross Remaster to sound more "gender inclusive"? How they pressured the creator of Senran Kagura to self-censor to pander to american sensibilities so much he up and left? Forgive me for having pattern recognition.
Trends cannot be understated, they are symptoms of something worse.
You are not helping creators by buying official manga, you are helping the publishers, you are only doing it to feel good about yourself, is it so hard to look up if the creator accepts donations? Or is it so hard to ask fellow fans to convince the creator to accept money directly from us? Do they do commissions? We can do international transactions easily now, what's stopping you?
Insult me and call me dramatic all you want, i donate to several artist's directly, because i want to see them work in what they like, and i want to make them know some of us care enough to go to them directly, even if the Colombian peso isn't much after exchange, i try, if that makes me an evil pirate who only wants to read stuff for free? I plead guilty.
If any who i answered to read this far, even if i didn't change your mind, i am proud of you for taking the time, knowing i can share my thoughts with someone else is always fun.

You sir are a intelligent man and i thank you for seeing the passion from fan translators.

 

[knight_evangel]

It's definitely one or two, or even several notches up, but even still it is full of mediocrity and a lot of times cringe.

Generalization, and just wrong a lot of the time. Many people are willing to pay for a good quality release, but just in general, a lot of people feel that if they are going to read a series, especially if they are paying to read it, they shouldn't be stuck with some sub-par and/or localized garbo.

Like Owl man said, it's not about money, it's about quality. There is a lot to be desired with these "official" releases, as well as the services that provide them, and voicing this fact is just that.

PC actually, i don't like phones.
We can talk about products, patents, copyright laws and the ethical stuff behind all the Chinese sweatshops all you like, which none of us want cause this is a manga forum.
You can't lump all products together, be it entertainment, goods or services, the only thing they all share is that they are supposed to do what is advertised, right? You don't buy something that doesn't do what you want it to do.
I don't like phones, and yet i have one to receive calls, it does that well enough, no complains there.
With stuff like entertainment is not the exact same, if anything, entertainment is just a hobby, and you spend whatever you want in it, if anything, they are luxury items, and as luxury items, we have standards for them, yet, you bought those mangas because you like them, right? Or simply because you like the author? Then wouldn't you want the mangas you bought with your own money to be the best they can be? Even if they aren't masterpieces, in the very least, wouldn't you want for the artists vision to be respected?
Sure the whole money won't get to the artist, but his whole work won't be appreciated either, i donate to artists, because i respect the hustle, i don't have to look up if they accept donations, or give my paypal info to patreon,ko-fi,substar, etc. And yet i am willing to do it.
Now with the official publishing, why do they pick a series? This one for example, the anime sold pretty well in the BD market, don't know exact manga numbers, they are just chasing trends, then they realize it doesn't really fit with their "moral/cultural values" and either drop it or change it to fit with that, completely eliminating what made it great in the first place.
We can't even trust them to respect western ips (Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings,etc.), do you really think we can trust them to handle non-western ips?
They did it to the Isekai Reviewers anime, americans did with Sakura Card Captors, Saint Seiya, Ghost Stories (at least the dub is hilarious), by this point we all accept that English dub is garbage with unnecessary politicization, yet they are trying to do the same with subs, manga and LNs, justifying all this nonsense is simply you denying you are willing to pay for crap, when they see they can get away with crap, don't complain it gets worse.
Its almost as if you haven't been paying attention in the last 20 years, which is to be expected from a boomer to be fair.
Edit: Forgot to mention, "Supporting the author" is not an excuse to buy trash.

Actually, I've just been hinting at the fact that I'm about to end this conversation. If I haven't iterated enough, I'm old as hell(kinda). I have literally, and I mean 1 to 1 LITERALLY seen this exact conversation more than 100 times, possibly 200. And sadly wasted my time participating in a fraction of them.

Fact of the matter is, I simply sought to rustle your jimmies because your initial statement looked disingenuous enough for me to believe you are the opposite of who you say you are. Nothing more than whimsical cynicism masquerading as passing concern or criticism.

Tell me the truth, do you really give a shit? Like on a scale of 1 to 100, how much does this really haunt you on a day to day basis? After this I'll leave you guys alone. lol

 

[Jadeite_McSwag]

I mean 1 to 1 LITERALLY seen this exact conversation more than 100 times, possibly 200. And sadly wasted my time participating in a fraction of them.

And yet you seek to perpetuate it for the 200th time lol. What do you seek to gain?

Fact of the matter is, I simply sought to rustle your jimmies

Ahhh, so just trolling, gotcha

Tell me the truth, do you really give a shit? Like on a scale of 1 to 100, how much does this really haunt you on a day to day basis? After this I'll leave you guys alone. lol

Silly question, so no thanks

 

[knight_evangel]

And yet you seek to perpetuate it for the 200th time lol. What do you seek to gain?


Ahhh, so just trolling, gotcha


Silly question, so no thanks

Every once in a while, when you get old, you start trying to criticize people for making the same mistakes you did. Often with more clumsiness than when you first made the mistake. It's really weird. In my case what I believed was a mistake was caring at all with such passion about any manga and its publishing or scanlation status. Nowadays I take it in stride, and seeing someone so serious must have rubbed me the wrong way I guess.

You think so? It was more like a badly veiled attempt at gaslighting in hindsight. To be honest he/she/they seemed like a dude with a good head on his/her/their shoulders so I doubt there was ever any danger of "being trolled" like you're imagining, but if that's really what you feel then feel free to report me. I'll learn from it and refrain from making the same mistake. Assuming the staff see it as trolling.

I see. Have a nice day I guess.

 

[Jadeite_McSwag]

Have a nice day I guess.

You too, cya

 

[rotateurowl]

Actually, I've just been hinting at the fact that I'm about to end this conversation. If I haven't iterated enough, I'm old as hell(kinda). I have literally, and I mean 1 to 1 LITERALLY seen this exact conversation more than 100 times, possibly 200. And sadly wasted my time participating in a fraction of them.

Fact of the matter is, I simply sought to rustle your jimmies because your initial statement looked disingenuous enough for me to believe you are the opposite of who you say you are. Nothing more than whimsical cynicism masquerading as passing concern or criticism.

Tell me the truth, do you really give a shit? Like on a scale of 1 to 100, how much does this really haunt you on a day to day basis? After this I'll leave you guys alone. lol

You genuinely don't understand do you? You want me to be real? Here i go then, I have seen far too many artists get fucked by absolute nonsense coming from publishers and fake fans, i have seen genuine pieces of art which have been butchered beyond recognition after they wanted them to "please modern audiences and western sensibilities", i have seen many of the ips i have once loved with all my heart be absolutely destroyed, i have seen people get their main source of joy and income be taken away from them because it was "boring" or "offensive", and i am FUCKING TIRED of it, i used to be part of the "silent majority", but, now i am done.
You just don't get an artists passion, call me a deluded idealist, but to me, art is something that makes your mind explore something it either does not know or hasn't considered before, art can bring you to tears, art can connect all of us regardless of nationality, religion, political opinions, etc. Art is something that has to be appreciated the way the creator intended.
I am cynical, i am an asshole, i like confrontation, yet, i still have a soul, i care, if we don't protect what we love, no one else will, normies and consoomers don't care, just like the locust they are they will just move on to whatever else becomes popular after they are done ravaging what is ours.
They did it to movies, they did it to american comics, they did it to video games, the enemy is at the gates and even if alone i am willing to gatekeep until the end.
if we get numerical i will give it about a 90 out 100.
I consider myself a fan because i care, even if it hurts.
It was good talking to you actually, it would have been boring if we agreed in everything don't you think?

Every once in a while, when you get old, you start trying to criticize people for making the same mistakes you did. Often with more clumsiness than when you first made the mistake. It's really weird. In my case what I believed was a mistake was caring at all with such passion about any manga and its publishing or scanlation status. Nowadays I take it in stride, and seeing someone so serious must have rubbed me the wrong way I guess.

You think so? It was more like a badly veiled attempt at gaslighting in hindsight. To be honest he/she/they seemed like a dude with a good head on his/her/their shoulders so I doubt there was ever any danger of "being trolled" like you're imagining, but if that's really what you feel then feel free to report me. I'll learn from it and refrain from making the same mistake. Assuming the staff see it as trolling.

I see. Have a nice day I guess.

By the way DO NOT report him, this was just some conversation between two randos on the internet, an Idealistic Millenial vs Burned out Boomer, pretty much something you can see at your local mall, so it doesn't really warrants something as excessive as a report.
Have a nice day my friend, i hope you enjoy those mangas.

 

[Jadeite_McSwag]

By the way DO NOT report him,

I didn't and wouldn't, reporting is usually cringe unless it is for super extreme stuff. It's funny that he acted like he wasn't trolling though after making the clear statement "My goal was just to rile you up" lol

 

[Shankao-Edge]

Yeah man i have heard the horror stories of the writers being conned into incredibly shitty splits, others in which they steal the ips from the writers, or the classic "Do it for exposure." That's why i respect the hussle, and part of why i have this intense hatred towards publishers.
It's cool you are a writer, but keep in mind that being an artist is incredibly thankless, many die penniless, or become famous after dead, art is something you do because you wan it, not because money, but it helps, this is why out of sheer concern i urge you to open ways for people to support you, do commissions if you can, but never compromise your vision, believe me, integrity alone can get many people interested in your work, people prefer someone with genuine passion for what they do rather than some cookie-cutter stick to the formula generic writer, and believe me passion shows itself in your works, you don't have to change anything, keep good grammar tho, it shows professionalism.
Thanks to the internet we no longer need to bow to the publishers to get known, i personally know authors who started writing with cringy fanfiction, but got the people interested, and that small following helped them self-publish some books, and make some decent money, so keep at it.

I know for a fact that artists are mostly underpaid, I worked with plenty of them who had no idea of the value of their work and a lot of them had some incredible talent, I'm kind of part of a comic branch for a game studio and I've heard horror stories from them, not only out of working into really horrible things, but also pretty much taken for granted, while this studio I work on has a creative director who's also an artist and focuses more on "Let's make a vision together" and less "This is how I want it to be", which is easy to say when we talk web comics, but if you think manga when you basically put the art, the writing and literally every aspect of your life to it since even social media accounts can be taken by the company, the job is horribly demanding.
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On that regard, for small manga authors, having fantranslations helps to make publicity for their work, I don't remember specifically who said it, but heard about a few who thanked fan translator because of how much it helped their work, in short, it's way better to buy merchandise once a year for a manga series than to read "Official localization" sites, but the thing is, many people don't do that either and like it or not, this supports the creators even if just a little.
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Also, let's think about this manga in particular, it's at this point on my top three, the story is at times way better than it deserves to be for an ecchi manga, I barely care if they censor it at this point, the story is way too good. The issues with fan translations are clear, but this manga is by no means aimed at children, so if they "Dumb it down" for America, then they are just being stupid, the anime literally has no dub, so why would they bother to americanize a manga that's all about crazy twists and fanservice?
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Anyways, tangents aside, currently is one of the bests ways to support authors, though the bar is extremely low, if there was a way to take donations from fans like with streaming platforms I'd say a lot of authors would get a way better deal then. Anyways, this went on long enough, thank you for the chat, it was fun.