Futoku no Guild - Vol. 16 Ch. 92 - Banished From Paradise

[AAA1]

Thanks for the chapter, Kredim.

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lol "This is the way of an adulteress: she eats and wipes her mouth and says, 'I've done nothing wrong.'"

If this is the case with an adulteress, how much more so a murderer? The proud (i.e., not closeted--and in the non-slang sense of the word) pedo MC shares a drink with a fetching lady visitor, with the wrongful extinguishing of a life treated as all in a day's work for him; the visitor even senses his guilt over the fate of those ultimately responsible for the entire incident--as if they had any innocence in them to merit mourning. All in a day's work, indeed, as he watches a local newscast detailing the incident and pinning guilt on the very same people he fought to defend as innocent--the same people he murdered someone for--and watches as if his hands are clean. Must have been easy, too: by the looks of the narration, the only people left dead are the victims of those "innocents" said MC fought so passionately to protect--courtesy of Phoenizaku.

All this after a bunch of people reacted so strongly and/or strangely to my criticisms of this arc and their favorite paraphilically written actors thereof, ranging from silly hostility to ludicrous perplexity. People are truly funny to me, but they don't produce the kind of humor that breeds mirth: reading comprehension ability is as lacking as I have long suspected, in this era--that in addition to morality.

But such things take a distant backseat to "cunny" and "bussy", anyway.

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Spoiler: For length.

I don't buy this--or his display of penitence in this chapter--at all.

The time for penitence over a misdeed--specifically one that necessarily requires premeditation, like Wanda's murder of Fone and his contribution to the murder of Hadesman--is before one commits that misdeed; "I'm sorry" rapidly depreciates in value with every second that passes after the fact, no matter how much the guilty party wants to show the world how penitent he is for a wrongdoing he could only make up for with a repeat performance. (Mind you, Wanda's ability isn't just the kind of MC-kun magic that has its user wave an effeminate hand and level a mountain--Wanda's magic especially requires thought.)

To be clear, Wanda's idea of atoning for killing Fone was killing Hadesman to match.

Wanda's illusion cast on the original commissioners of the murders is merely performative: while they live in illusionary pain, Fone and Hadesman both died in pain and grief--the latter in a delusion of guilt imposed by absurd gaslighting visited upon him in his state of physical, mental, and emotional exhaustion. Their deaths--their agonies--were real and final, with Hadesman being murdered for a people that would end up revived anyway.

It's already clear that many of Hadesman's murderers will walk not only scot-free, but even like heroes; I'm looking forward to seeing what the original perpetrators get. If the illusion taxes their bodies to death, it'd approach fairness--but the message has already been sent.

i agree with you in that. but the way wanda got tricked into killing them is i due to his naivety to believe his leader (the village elder). he doesn't do proper truth-seeking to question their order. he did it because he believe this is to protect their village (by killing). that's why the author underlined that wanda and the police (that got caught i forgot her name) have the same goal but different view in how to achieve it. They were actually a relatives from the same orphanage. and that's why wanda got very very shocked that hadesman and fone is very innocent in this, to the point kikuru need to coerce/blackmail him to follow his plan. Wanda was going to kill the village elders and do suicide immediately after he knows the truth

 

[Giga]

i agree with you in that. but the way wanda got tricked into killing them is i due to his naivety to believe his leader (the village elder). he doesn't do proper truth-seeking to question their order. he did it because he believe this is to protect their village (by killing). that's why the author underlined that wanda and the police (that got caught i forgot her name) have the same goal but different view in how to achieve it. They were actually a relatives from the same orphanage. and that's why wanda got very very shocked that hadesman and fone is very innocent in this, to the point kikuru need to coerce/blackmail him to follow his plan. Wanda was going to kill the village elders and do suicide immediately after he knows the truth

I see what you're saying, but--after a certain point--a person can't claim naïveté anymore, and that was the crux of what I was saying about Wanda. He thought about what he was doing way too much for it to be naïveté: going along with the village elders' commissioning Wanda to cast an illusion to kill one harmless woman (not even the alleged threat Hadesman), ostensibly to save a village by weakening Hadesman--or asking himself whether or not he even has the right to kill some random woman that way, and if it's actually even going to do what the village elders say. The questions he could have go beyond that, but he didn't ask a single one of himself or anyone else.

There's a certain order in existence, one that begins with ignorance: ignorance => stupidity => evil

That order progresses with the amount of knowledge possessed, degree of intent, and the harm done. Everyone's ignorant of something; choosing to stay that way when you know the alternative of enlightenment exists is when it becomes stupidity--especially, but not necessarily, when it starts to hurt someone. Evil is born when the intent is maintained and the harm undeniably exists and is severe. Wanda never stopped to think about Fone's life, even for a second. That said, I don't remember the part when Kikuru blackmailed him--I'll take your word for it, as something had to make Wanda take this path, and he seems like the type that's easily coerced.

But if that's the case, exactly what could make Wanda commit his sin a second time, if he felt so guilty over it? That's my question. Hadesman showed Wanda what he did--Wanda knew his own guilt. What could Kikuru threaten him with that would make Wanda think that helping to murder someone again--the lover of the person he helped murder, no less--was preferable to it? If that threat could work--and considering that Wanda was going to commit a murder-suicide as an act of punishment against the elders--could Wanda have been all that sorrowful over what he did?

 

[AAA1]

I see what you're saying, but--after a certain point--a person can't claim naïveté anymore, and that was the crux of what I was saying about Wanda. He thought about what he was doing way too much for it to be naïveté: going along with the village elders' commissioning Wanda to cast an illusion to kill one harmless woman (not even the alleged threat Hadesman), ostensibly to save a village by weakening Hadesman--or asking himself whether or not he even has the right to kill some random woman that way, and if it's actually even going to do what the village elders say. The questions he could have go beyond that, but he didn't ask a single one of himself or anyone else.

There's a certain order in existence, one that begins with ignorance: ignorance => stupidity => evil

That order progresses with the amount of knowledge possessed, degree of intent, and the harm done. Everyone's ignorant of something; choosing to stay that way when you know the alternative of enlightenment exists is when it becomes stupidity--especially, but not necessarily, when it starts to hurt someone. Evil is born when the intent is maintained and the harm undeniably exists and is severe. Wanda never stopped to think about Fone's life, even for a second. That said, I don't remember the part when Kikuru blackmailed him--I'll take your word for it, as something had to make Wanda take this path, and he seems like the type that's easily coerced.

But if that's the case, exactly what could make Wanda commit his sin a second time, if he felt so guilty over it? That's my question. Hadesman showed Wanda what he did--Wanda knew his own guilt. What could Kikuru threaten him with that would make Wanda think that helping to murder someone again--the lover of the person he helped murder, no less--was preferable to it? If that threat could work--and considering that Wanda was going to commit a murder-suicide as an act of punishment against the elders--could Wanda have been all that sorrowful over what he did?

i am just trying to explain what's been written in the story. i am sorry if there is some bias from me. wanda was written as shallow person like a naive people usually do. i need to mention first, people is always changing. it's why they are people not some kind of robot. but they will always have the option to revert back to what state of mind they choose to believe.

for wanda's case, let me tell you the when, your explanation is right and still correspond the plot. kikuru was blackmailing
(there is maybe a better word) wanda to stop whatever he intend to do just after he learnt the truth. what kikuru only want is the better way to beat hadesman. you are right that wanda did not have the capability to kill hadesman mentally. after this point, what wanda only want is the elder and his own punishment. that's why kikuru said something along the line, 'if you acknowledge your sin, go live and atone your sin'. usually a people that already got mind destructed like wanda will only follow along the first one who tell him that. it's in nature of people that people seek salvation before all. wanda doesn't have the right mind to think for himself. that is why his role is only assisting. this is all on kikuru's decision. this is actually will be the topic that is going to be talked about in later chapter. kikuru will have second thought to this event and regretting it later. sorry for the spoiler.

but in actually too, hadesman being killed is an accident or like desperate measures. they only want to stop his homicidal rampage. they didn't have the capabilities to kill hadesman. seiten have skill that deadly was never being known to them. they just chose to believe him because they are professional.

 

[Giga]

i am just trying to explain what's been written in the story. i am sorry if there is some bias from me. wanda was written as shallow person like a naive people usually do. i need to mention first, people is always changing. it's why they are people not some kind of robot. but they will always have the option to revert back to what state of mind they choose to believe.

for wanda's case, let me tell you the when, your explanation is right and still correspond the plot. kikuru was blackmailing
(there is maybe a better word) wanda to stop whatever he intend to do just after he learnt the truth. what kikuru only want is the better way to beat hadesman. you are right that wanda did not have the capability to kill hadesman mentally. after this point, what wanda only want is the elder and his own punishment. that's why kikuru said something along the line, 'if you acknowledge your sin, go live and atone your sin'. usually a people that already got mind destructed like wanda will only follow along the first one who tell him that. it's in nature of people that people seek salvation before all. wanda doesn't have the right mind to think for himself. that is why his role is only assisting. this is all on kikuru's decision. this is actually will be the topic that is going to be talked about in later chapter. kikuru will have second thought to this event and regretting it later. sorry for the spoiler.

but in actually too, hadesman being killed is an accident or like desperate measures. they only want to stop his homicidal rampage. they didn't have the capabilities to kill hadesman. seiten have skill that deadly was never being known to them. they just chose to believe him because they are professional.

Hey, now--no need for apologies, I was just discussing the story as you were; you also didn't say a single thing to warrant an apology.

Unlike certain other people in these threads. lol

Anyway, you made some fair points--but I do think I'll leave it at what you've said, for now.