Girls und Panzer - Saga of Pravda - Vol. 2 Ch. 8 - Graduation
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2018
- Messages
- 11,321
oh wow an ak release. wasn't expecting that. who gave tai coffee?
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2018
- Messages
- 1,176
When you realize that Maho was probably sent to KMN to clean up these trash students who came in by influence alone, and sever the PTA's influence. And I bet it was Shiho who planned it.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2018
- Messages
- 109
The german on page 21 and 22 isn't correct. it should be:
"Zug, in Linie - antreten!" instead of "Zug in Linie zu drei Gliedern angetreten!". The latter is a redundant order, as a "Linie" is always three deep (in fact there are only two orders regarding formations for units of this size: Linie and Marschordnung). You also used perfect tense instead of imperative tense, ("angetreten" instead of the correct "antreten").
Two additional things:
1. The formation has to be explicitly stated, even if it's totally clear who is meant (for most orders, it's a bit .. weird).
2. Commands are divided into two parts, an "Ankündigungskommando"/pre command and an "Ausführungskommando"/actual command. In text form those are separated by a (double) hyphen. There are exceptions though. Again: It's weird.
Therefore the commands should be:
- "Zug, in Linie - antreten!"
- "Zug - Stillgestanden!" (if this doesn't fir the bubble you can use the, slightly improper, but often used, "Zug - Still!")
- "Rechts - um!"
- "Grüßt!" -- This is not a proper order as a formation never salutes/greets out of it's own initiative, but always as a response to a salute/greeting from an officer. However, if we imply that there could be such an order, this would most likely be the proper form. You also got the tense wrong, "Gruß" is the noun, "grüßen", the verb and "grüßt" the plural imperative of the verb.
- "Links - um!"
Now I could rant, how majorly wrong the whole process (formation, missing and wrong orders, etc.) is, but we all know this is not the proper German army (and the author has a hard time to understand the small intricacies of German army drill and ceremony), so I'll leave it at that.
BTW - Sources: Official German army manual(s), both modern and old and my own training.
"Zug, in Linie - antreten!" instead of "Zug in Linie zu drei Gliedern angetreten!". The latter is a redundant order, as a "Linie" is always three deep (in fact there are only two orders regarding formations for units of this size: Linie and Marschordnung). You also used perfect tense instead of imperative tense, ("angetreten" instead of the correct "antreten").
Two additional things:
1. The formation has to be explicitly stated, even if it's totally clear who is meant (for most orders, it's a bit .. weird).
2. Commands are divided into two parts, an "Ankündigungskommando"/pre command and an "Ausführungskommando"/actual command. In text form those are separated by a (double) hyphen. There are exceptions though. Again: It's weird.
Therefore the commands should be:
- "Zug, in Linie - antreten!"
- "Zug - Stillgestanden!" (if this doesn't fir the bubble you can use the, slightly improper, but often used, "Zug - Still!")
- "Rechts - um!"
- "Grüßt!" -- This is not a proper order as a formation never salutes/greets out of it's own initiative, but always as a response to a salute/greeting from an officer. However, if we imply that there could be such an order, this would most likely be the proper form. You also got the tense wrong, "Gruß" is the noun, "grüßen", the verb and "grüßt" the plural imperative of the verb.
- "Links - um!"
Now I could rant, how majorly wrong the whole process (formation, missing and wrong orders, etc.) is, but we all know this is not the proper German army (and the author has a hard time to understand the small intricacies of German army drill and ceremony), so I'll leave it at that.
BTW - Sources: Official German army manual(s), both modern and old and my own training.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 11
@Ruhrpottpatriot Man, where were you when i asked other German speakers about this. Anyway, the German in this and the next page is based on the furigana translation. We took it 1:1 for all but the first line, which read "Schützenzug in Linie", where we could not wrap our head about why they would imply the Zug was only made of Schützen and where we didn't know Linie already means three lines. The Kanji just read "Three line formation", so we thought they fucked something up. As such we asked around and got the result I used from one person who, I assume, had army experience.
Anyway I fixed it now.
Anyway I fixed it now.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2018
- Messages
- 109
@Taiboss Without knowing the details of German commands you actually did pretty well, congrats! What you wrote wasn't the accurate command, but it conveyed the meaning, which is the most important part. There are many small details, that seem totally random to normal people (or modern people in some instances).
One of these is your "infamous" Schützenzug in Linie. When in the field the Gruppenführer (squad leader) orders how his squad advances, which is either in line, in column or random. Those are called "Schützenrudel"/pack of riflemen, "Schützenreihe"/row of riflemen and "Schützenwolke"/cloud of riflemen respectively (Austrians are a bit more intuitive to modern English speaking readers with their naming of line as "Schützenkette", i.e. chain of riflemen).
While in some cases you have namings like "Schützenzug", "Panzerzug" or "Schwerer Unterstützungszug", these are organisational things and not used in everyday orders. What would be done is to number the platoon and refer to the company instead. e.g. 3./- is the naming for the third platoon in a company, 2./93 is the second[1] company of the tank battalion 93[2]. In everyday speech the name "Schützenzug" usually denotes a customs club taking part in a Schützenfenst, which has its roots in old militias, but doesn't have a modern military equivalent.
A few rules of thumb for your translation notes, that might help you choose the right wording:
- "Reihe", in the context of formations, doesn't mean row, it means column, don't ask... it's stupid, I know.
- You can have a "Reihe" or a "Linie zu einem Glied", but only the amount of soldiers is less than 12 (i.e. the size of a squad), above it's the terms I mentioned earlier.
- "Achtung" vs "Stillgestanden": Both can be translated from attention, but the difference is that "Achtung" is a "Stillgestanden", where the soldier turns toward the person giving the order.[3]
- "Augen - rechts" vs "Die Augen - links": This one is a very minor and often overlooked one (even in the army itself), but note the additional "Die" in the latter command. Now the reason is, that the reason for a pre command is to ready the soldier mentally for the actual command. If the pre command is the same, in this case "Augen", the soldier doesn't know where to turn his head, which is bad.
There are more pitfalls when dealing with commands, but if you translate them literally you should get it right 90%, which in my eyes is absolutely fine. Most readers don't have the detailed knowledge anyway.
For those who are interested HERE is a video of a change in command for the the Heer (which, incidentally, is what KMN did in this chapter). The video starts after some parts of the formation has entered already, but just before the bands[4], Colour and "Ehrenformation"/Escort to the Colour (well: Colours) enter (they guys with white belts). The Escort to the Colour also uses the older art of drill based on the Preußisches Exerzierreglement which was the standard for all German armies (except Bavaria, they like to be different, Saxony only until 1918) until 1945. It has been dropped in favour of a 95% identical, but more streamlined version for most of the Bundeswehr as it takes so long to get everything right and in the time of nuclear war -- well, no time for that. You can see the greatest difference between the two versions when the Escort to the Colour marches out at the end of the video. Look how the first two Colours turn 90° and how their feet move.
The video shows pretty well how orders should be given and how a formation actually greets.
If you (or anybody else) want to have more information you can send me a PM (although I can't guarantee that I'll answer right away).
Trivia Section:
[1] In German military speech the number two, isn't spoken(!) as "zwei", but as "zwo". The reason is the same as with the English "niner" for "nine". Over radio you could very well misinterpret a two for a three, as they sound very similar to another, as do "nine" and the German "nein". I'd be careful with using this in translations however, as this is a very, very rare occurrence.
[2] This doesn't mean that there are 92 other tank battalions. In older structures of the Bundeswehr the numbering and thus type of the platoon depends on the brigades it's in, whose numbering and type in turn is dependent on the Division. Now today this has been thrown out of the window, but all units trace their original number back to this.
[3] "Achtung" can't be given to a formation -- for formations you'd give the order "Stillgestanden" and then either a "Richt - Euch"/dress ranks followed by "Augen gerade - Aus!"/eyes front if the formation just formed or came to a halt; or commands like "Zur Meldung"/for reporting, "Zur Truppenfahne"/to the colour, whatever... followed by either "Augen - Rechts!" or "Die Augen - Links!" (btw: Yes, that's a double meaning for "zur", we Germans hate foreign speakers). After any head turning the command "Augen gerade - Aus!" is given. After that any number of formation commands may follow, but the most common that is given is "Rührt Euch" together with the name of the unit, e.g. "Dritter Zug - Rührt euch!". For small units like squads the unit name is usually left out, so go with whatever fits the bill. To dissolve the formation the command "Wegtreten" is given, again with the name of the unit or as is, if the unit is very small.
Formations can also be addressed as a whole or in part by arbitrary names, the most common being "Ehrenformation"/honor guard, "Abteilung"/detachment or "Truppenfahne"/Colour. When ordering the soldiers into formation, you'd place them with the front towards the most important part (e.g. Head of state, commanding officer, etc.) as one continuos line. If space doesn't allow this, you'd rotate the leftmost parts by 90°.
While we're at the topic of the Colour:
The placement of the colour is always at the front directly behind the commanding officer and thus always at the rightmost part of the formation, unless bands are present, they always march in front of the formation. As I have said, in the German military formations don't greet out of their own initiative, but always as a response from a higher up. Individual soldiers also don't salute Flags/"Fahnen", which is what we see in this chapter. Only the Colours/"Truppenfahne" (note the difference between "Fahne" and "Flagge") are saluted, with individual soldiers raising their hand for a standard military salute, and formations being ordered in a "Stillgestanden", with the head following the passing Colour(s) and "Unteroffiziere mit Portepee" (NCOs of ranks sergeant and higher) or officers raising their hand to a salute in the formation.
[4] That thing in front of the Bands is a "Schellenbaum", jingling Johnny, turkish crescent or chapeau chinois (don't ask why the French went for China). Originally a Turkish instrument it now has become a trophy and is the bands version of the Colour.
Again: If somebody wants more information (or trivia, just PM me).
One of these is your "infamous" Schützenzug in Linie. When in the field the Gruppenführer (squad leader) orders how his squad advances, which is either in line, in column or random. Those are called "Schützenrudel"/pack of riflemen, "Schützenreihe"/row of riflemen and "Schützenwolke"/cloud of riflemen respectively (Austrians are a bit more intuitive to modern English speaking readers with their naming of line as "Schützenkette", i.e. chain of riflemen).
While in some cases you have namings like "Schützenzug", "Panzerzug" or "Schwerer Unterstützungszug", these are organisational things and not used in everyday orders. What would be done is to number the platoon and refer to the company instead. e.g. 3./- is the naming for the third platoon in a company, 2./93 is the second[1] company of the tank battalion 93[2]. In everyday speech the name "Schützenzug" usually denotes a customs club taking part in a Schützenfenst, which has its roots in old militias, but doesn't have a modern military equivalent.
A few rules of thumb for your translation notes, that might help you choose the right wording:
- "Reihe", in the context of formations, doesn't mean row, it means column, don't ask... it's stupid, I know.
- You can have a "Reihe" or a "Linie zu einem Glied", but only the amount of soldiers is less than 12 (i.e. the size of a squad), above it's the terms I mentioned earlier.
- "Achtung" vs "Stillgestanden": Both can be translated from attention, but the difference is that "Achtung" is a "Stillgestanden", where the soldier turns toward the person giving the order.[3]
- "Augen - rechts" vs "Die Augen - links": This one is a very minor and often overlooked one (even in the army itself), but note the additional "Die" in the latter command. Now the reason is, that the reason for a pre command is to ready the soldier mentally for the actual command. If the pre command is the same, in this case "Augen", the soldier doesn't know where to turn his head, which is bad.
There are more pitfalls when dealing with commands, but if you translate them literally you should get it right 90%, which in my eyes is absolutely fine. Most readers don't have the detailed knowledge anyway.
For those who are interested HERE is a video of a change in command for the the Heer (which, incidentally, is what KMN did in this chapter). The video starts after some parts of the formation has entered already, but just before the bands[4], Colour and "Ehrenformation"/Escort to the Colour (well: Colours) enter (they guys with white belts). The Escort to the Colour also uses the older art of drill based on the Preußisches Exerzierreglement which was the standard for all German armies (except Bavaria, they like to be different, Saxony only until 1918) until 1945. It has been dropped in favour of a 95% identical, but more streamlined version for most of the Bundeswehr as it takes so long to get everything right and in the time of nuclear war -- well, no time for that. You can see the greatest difference between the two versions when the Escort to the Colour marches out at the end of the video. Look how the first two Colours turn 90° and how their feet move.
The video shows pretty well how orders should be given and how a formation actually greets.
If you (or anybody else) want to have more information you can send me a PM (although I can't guarantee that I'll answer right away).
Trivia Section:
[1] In German military speech the number two, isn't spoken(!) as "zwei", but as "zwo". The reason is the same as with the English "niner" for "nine". Over radio you could very well misinterpret a two for a three, as they sound very similar to another, as do "nine" and the German "nein". I'd be careful with using this in translations however, as this is a very, very rare occurrence.
[2] This doesn't mean that there are 92 other tank battalions. In older structures of the Bundeswehr the numbering and thus type of the platoon depends on the brigades it's in, whose numbering and type in turn is dependent on the Division. Now today this has been thrown out of the window, but all units trace their original number back to this.
[3] "Achtung" can't be given to a formation -- for formations you'd give the order "Stillgestanden" and then either a "Richt - Euch"/dress ranks followed by "Augen gerade - Aus!"/eyes front if the formation just formed or came to a halt; or commands like "Zur Meldung"/for reporting, "Zur Truppenfahne"/to the colour, whatever... followed by either "Augen - Rechts!" or "Die Augen - Links!" (btw: Yes, that's a double meaning for "zur", we Germans hate foreign speakers). After any head turning the command "Augen gerade - Aus!" is given. After that any number of formation commands may follow, but the most common that is given is "Rührt Euch" together with the name of the unit, e.g. "Dritter Zug - Rührt euch!". For small units like squads the unit name is usually left out, so go with whatever fits the bill. To dissolve the formation the command "Wegtreten" is given, again with the name of the unit or as is, if the unit is very small.
Formations can also be addressed as a whole or in part by arbitrary names, the most common being "Ehrenformation"/honor guard, "Abteilung"/detachment or "Truppenfahne"/Colour. When ordering the soldiers into formation, you'd place them with the front towards the most important part (e.g. Head of state, commanding officer, etc.) as one continuos line. If space doesn't allow this, you'd rotate the leftmost parts by 90°.
While we're at the topic of the Colour:
The placement of the colour is always at the front directly behind the commanding officer and thus always at the rightmost part of the formation, unless bands are present, they always march in front of the formation. As I have said, in the German military formations don't greet out of their own initiative, but always as a response from a higher up. Individual soldiers also don't salute Flags/"Fahnen", which is what we see in this chapter. Only the Colours/"Truppenfahne" (note the difference between "Fahne" and "Flagge") are saluted, with individual soldiers raising their hand for a standard military salute, and formations being ordered in a "Stillgestanden", with the head following the passing Colour(s) and "Unteroffiziere mit Portepee" (NCOs of ranks sergeant and higher) or officers raising their hand to a salute in the formation.
[4] That thing in front of the Bands is a "Schellenbaum", jingling Johnny, turkish crescent or chapeau chinois (don't ask why the French went for China). Originally a Turkish instrument it now has become a trophy and is the bands version of the Colour.
Again: If somebody wants more information (or trivia, just PM me).
i am also surpise by the tactics of katyucha when she explain to the bully trio how to hit targets .
Why she dont just suggest them to make a shoot for try and after correct the aim for hit the target of the 1 st shot instead to go to another target ?
Why she dont just suggest them to make a shoot for try and after correct the aim for hit the target of the 1 st shot instead to go to another target ?
Similar threads
