Golden Kamuy - Vol. 21 Ch. 203 - Portrait
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
I don't know if the scanlators read these comments, but I thought I would post in case they do. I don't usually read the English scanlations but I couldn't help but notice a few mistranslations in this chapter but also in other chapters I've glanced at. The biggest one in chapter 203 is on the page where Sugi is talking about Asirpa, which I want to point out to you because it's the kind of mistake that changes characterization.
The original Japanese says: アシリパ さん が 見て いる 世界 に 俺 も いる と 思う と なに か 綺麗 な もの に なった 気 が して 救われる
The scanlators' translation is: When I think to myself that the world Asirpa is seeing has me in it... I feel like it's cleansing me, somehow. It feels like I've been saved.
I'll break this down for the scanlator's benefit so they can learn from their mistakes. First off you have broken one long sentence into multiple sentences, where the tense and verbform is wrong in the English; 救われる is "can be saved (in the future)" and not "been saved (already in the past)" . 綺麗になった is "became clean" (a finished action, aka "cleansed once" — that is, if you want to translate it as "cleanse" and not "beautiful" in the first place) but not the ongoing tense "cleansing". Basically this line is saying "there is a chance for me to become a good guy in the future", it's not saying "i am a good guy now".
Now what I suspect caused your mistranslation is that maybe you don't know tense in Japanese is relative, it's not the same as English tenses. In this sentence 救われる is the end point in time, or the "tense for the sentence". Everything else in the sentence has its timepoint in relation to that final timepoint. In other words, all verbs before 救われる have their time modified INSIDE the timeline of 救われる.
Think of it this way. For any verb within the same sentence where 救われる is the final verb:
た happens and finishes before 救われる happens or can happen
て happens directly before 救われる happens or can happen (〜い in Japanese means "and", such as 立ち読む "stand(ing) and read(ing)", 納豆にスマホ "natto and smartphones", and て is tacked onto 〜い form thus this can easily just mean "and" as well)
る happens before 救われる happens or can happen
So if we take the sentence there:
見ている世界 / 俺もいる Asirpa is looking at the world before Sugi feels like he can be saved. Her looking is a prerequisite to him existing in the world she is looking at. If we look at the clause by itself, いる is the end point in time which 見ている's tense hangs upon, and thus 見ているhappens before いる happens or can happen (see る in the chart I made for you).
と思う Him existing in her world is a prerequisite to him thinking about the fact that he exists in it.
綺麗なものになった / 気がして Upon thinking this, he felt like he had gotten clean/pretty. It's not Asirpa looking at him that makes him cleansed, she hasn't done anything to him, but feeling cleansed is the spontaneous result from the way he's thinking about his own situation, if that makes sense.
になった / 気がして / 救われる Getting the feeling of being cleansed is a prerequisite to feeling like he can be saved in the future. 救われる is the end reference point in time that all of these verbs hang on.
I hope that helps so you don't make as many tense mistakes in Japanese in the future. Particularly with になった, remember the difference between になった "became" and になっている "has become". At any rate neither mean "becoming", so watch out for that when you translate..
The original Japanese says: アシリパ さん が 見て いる 世界 に 俺 も いる と 思う と なに か 綺麗 な もの に なった 気 が して 救われる
The scanlators' translation is: When I think to myself that the world Asirpa is seeing has me in it... I feel like it's cleansing me, somehow. It feels like I've been saved.
I'll break this down for the scanlator's benefit so they can learn from their mistakes. First off you have broken one long sentence into multiple sentences, where the tense and verbform is wrong in the English; 救われる is "can be saved (in the future)" and not "been saved (already in the past)" . 綺麗になった is "became clean" (a finished action, aka "cleansed once" — that is, if you want to translate it as "cleanse" and not "beautiful" in the first place) but not the ongoing tense "cleansing". Basically this line is saying "there is a chance for me to become a good guy in the future", it's not saying "i am a good guy now".
Now what I suspect caused your mistranslation is that maybe you don't know tense in Japanese is relative, it's not the same as English tenses. In this sentence 救われる is the end point in time, or the "tense for the sentence". Everything else in the sentence has its timepoint in relation to that final timepoint. In other words, all verbs before 救われる have their time modified INSIDE the timeline of 救われる.
Think of it this way. For any verb within the same sentence where 救われる is the final verb:
た happens and finishes before 救われる happens or can happen
て happens directly before 救われる happens or can happen (〜い in Japanese means "and", such as 立ち読む "stand(ing) and read(ing)", 納豆にスマホ "natto and smartphones", and て is tacked onto 〜い form thus this can easily just mean "and" as well)
る happens before 救われる happens or can happen
So if we take the sentence there:
見ている世界 / 俺もいる Asirpa is looking at the world before Sugi feels like he can be saved. Her looking is a prerequisite to him existing in the world she is looking at. If we look at the clause by itself, いる is the end point in time which 見ている's tense hangs upon, and thus 見ているhappens before いる happens or can happen (see る in the chart I made for you).
と思う Him existing in her world is a prerequisite to him thinking about the fact that he exists in it.
綺麗なものになった / 気がして Upon thinking this, he felt like he had gotten clean/pretty. It's not Asirpa looking at him that makes him cleansed, she hasn't done anything to him, but feeling cleansed is the spontaneous result from the way he's thinking about his own situation, if that makes sense.
になった / 気がして / 救われる Getting the feeling of being cleansed is a prerequisite to feeling like he can be saved in the future. 救われる is the end reference point in time that all of these verbs hang on.
I hope that helps so you don't make as many tense mistakes in Japanese in the future. Particularly with になった, remember the difference between になった "became" and になっている "has become". At any rate neither mean "becoming", so watch out for that when you translate..
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I love you Sofia
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With Japanese audience sugimoto’s confession was controversial, some think it is a beautiful thing that Asirpa is like a goddess to him, others think it’s dangerous because it’s showing his madness by overlapping with Anehata’s line and Hanazawa’s idol theory, how he is messed up that he has to depend on a little girl to stabilize his mind to kill more people, and no one is really talking about it here really except chinukman pointing out about translation. It is a tricky one though...
My opinion is the second one, I don’t think Asripa was happy to hear that...
My opinion is the second one, I don’t think Asripa was happy to hear that...
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Thanks @chinukman and @momokomomosiiva for the very interesting read, I wasn't aware of how deep that little exchange was before reading your comments, I was under the impression it was somehow the good ol' "being cool while being overheard" situation, instead it's quite a different take on Sugimoto mental state!
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@chinukman if you notice a mistake, you could ping them by give notification @ehscans
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Sugimoto trying to communicate using 'kid doodles' here make me dying 😂
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And vasily remind me of doranichov
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Now this is how you do fan service. Take notes, Japan.
