GOLDEN MAN - Vol. 2 Ch. 11 - Speed (2)

[Quackingbean]

I don’t think it’s forced in tho.. the doctor was pretty gay from the start

 

[Weoooo]

I don’t think it’s forced in tho.. the doctor was pretty gay from the start

They're not talking about this series. They're talking about other series. This is discourse, not anything related to this comic at all.

Don't you love culture wars? I love culture wars. I love how literally everything has to be discussed as if its WOKE or ANTI-WOKE. I love how every character, every story, every creative decision, every visual element, has to be sent out to a committee of guys on twitter to decide if it's WOKE TRASH or BASED ANTI-WOKE GOLD. I love how it's impossible to discuss any movie, any comic, any game, basically any thing now without someone busting into the conversation to give their hot take about cultural Marxists. It really makes me enjoy life, really makes me like being on the internet and discussing things that I enjoy with people who enjoy them, too.

 

[Quackingbean]

They're not talking about this series. They're talking about other series. This is discourse, not anything related to this comic at all.

Don't you love culture wars? I love culture wars. I love how literally everything has to be discussed as if its WOKE or ANTI-WOKE. I love how every character, every story, every creative decision, every visual element, has to be sent out to a committee of guys on twitter to decide if it's WOKE TRASH or BASED ANTI-WOKE GOLD. I love how it's impossible to discuss any movie, any comic, any game, basically any thing now without someone busting into the conversation to give their hot take about cultural Marxists. It really makes me enjoy life, really makes me like being on the internet and discussing things that I enjoy with people who enjoy them, too.

Hey man chillax

 

[SUPER7X]

It’s always weird when someone says this because, like, whether a series has “forced” writing really just varies from reader to reader.

No, people overapply it because they're stupid, but it's generally pretty clear, if not explicit, when creators are doings things forcedly.

Like, there were some comments in Witch Hat Atelier chapters that complained when a black witch was added, when a gay couple was added, and people were complaining that it was “forced in”. Bro it’s a manga, Shirahama-sensei decided to add those characters in herself how the fuck can you say they’re forced in

I have not red the series yet, so I don't know how reasonable any of these claims are within the bounds of the series, but Shirahama is woke as fuck on TwiX, almost unbelieveably so, and that kind of person absolutely feels a positive need for identity-based “representation”, something that I find so gross and anti-individualistic and anti-fiction. However, I don't care! It's her series! She can do whatever the fuck she wants with it! Maybe her series is worse for the forcedness or maybe the people making that claim are wrong, but it doesn't matter! This way of thinking is only a problem when such people pervert existing IPs for their purposes. Sadly it happens quite a lot.

The quote is from the credit page, so someone from DarkReunion

Ah. I was confused too. Well that's what ye get for reading the credits page lol. Why add that? Is there any relevance?

 

[Ainkrip]

It’s always weird when someone says this because, like, whether a series has “forced” writing really just varies from reader to reader.

Like, there were some comments in Witch Hat Atelier chapters that complained when a black witch was added, when a gay couple was added, and people were complaining that it was “forced in”. Bro it’s a manga, Shirahama-sensei decided to add those characters in herself how the fuck can you say they’re forced in

The other complaints are more reasonable, but honestly they just tie into the whole issue of superhero cinematic universes just being these big unwieldy kudzu patches that devour everything. Which is oddly similar to how western cape comics are now, so kudos to getting that right.

It is forced in 99% of the times, like changing the sexuality, gender and race of already existing characters. These changes are ridiculous. And adding stuff which never existed and doesn't make sense like Black Targarians, african and asian elves in lotr and Witcher lol. Now black vikings in how to train a dragon adaptation.

 

[wnmalo]

It is forced in 99% of the times, like changing the sexuality, gender and race of already existing characters. These changes are ridiculous. And adding stuff which never existed and doesn't make sense like Black Targarians, african and asian elves in lotr and Witcher lol. Now black vikings in how to train a dragon adaptation.

Ah yes. We have ample archeological evidence supporting the fact that no Targaryen was ever black. We can find it currently on the British Museum, although The Seven Kingdoms are trying to get it back.

 

[Kushikime]

Thanks for the chapter.

 

[ShadowHusky]

But if I have to mention any, I'd say the last season of Brooklyn 99.

Are you dense? Why would LA residents who lived through the Rodney King riots want to make the NYPD look fun in the aftermath of George Floyd?

The cast mentioned in interviews that they were uncomfortable continuing B99. Did you want them to act like every thing was okay with the police force and not address shit?

 

[Black_Beat]

Are you dense? Why would LA residents who lived through the Rodney King riots want to make the NYPD look fun in the aftermath of George Floyd?

The cast mentioned in interviews that they were uncomfortable continuing B99. Did you want them to act like every thing was okay with the police force and not address shit?

Oof, I didn't know that. That's my bad. I guess it flew right over me as someone who watched the show years after they air and as a non-American viewer.

But I guess it can still be an example of real-life problems affecting creative media negatively.

One more thing, I'm not anti-"woke" or anything, I just hate it when it feels cooperate and/or hypocrite.

 

[ShadowHusky]

I just hate it when it feels cooperate and/or hypocrite.

I think that's a fine opinion. But let me just say it did not come out as such in the credit page and this discussion thread lmao

 

[Macamar]

I think what Black Beats talking about is more of a loss of quality by inserting personal ideals into media. A good comparison can be Dragon Age Veilguard vs Arcane, while they're two different forms of media both of them could be considered "woke". However the difference is that one story includes progressive characters while the other is based off it. We see a lot more of the latter in modern media which is where the whole idea of "woke" being bad comes from.

Also can we please keep it to talking about the manga even if we're trying to have a discussion like this because I honestly think Dr Centipedes a rather well written character from how little we've seen of him. Yeah he's probably gay but that's not really the focal point of his character, it's that he's obsessed with Golden Man, not the man in the suit, but the hero itself.

 

[Weoooo]

One more thing, I'm not anti-"woke" or anything, I just hate it when it feels cooperate and/or hypocrite.

The problem with that idea is that what feels corporate or hypocritical is, well, not actually an indication that it is. It's based on your experiences and your worldview, as well as your understanding of what the action was.

I mean, look at your post: you had assumed a top down corporate decision when what you were seeing was a bottom up creative decision based on the feelings of the people working on the show. It felt corporate to you, and hypocritical because they were already making a jokey cop show. It was anything but.

Narratives can infect us without us even really understanding that they have. With a consistent push from culture warriors to frame every decision as either a victory for them or a failing of their enemies, there's always a narrative being formed around media, even when those people don't actually interact with it. Often because they can't. Cause it's not even out yet. A poisonous turn on the pre-release hype cycle, the pre-release "discourse" cycle where people decide if something is woke and will thus fail or anti-woke and will thus succeed. If their predictions are incorrect, they'll just revise what category something belongs to or ignore reality all together.

I feel bad that you feel like you got jumped on for your opinions in a credit page that you probably didn't even expect anyone to read, but its also important to understand that narratives are not universal. You didn't realize that you were stepping into a dumb culture war, but the wording you used is exactly the narrative: stuff is being "forced" into media. By who? For what purpose? People get there eventually, and it's always nefarious. But if you don't pay much attention to that dumb shit because it's dumb shit, you can just passively agree with an agreeable stance(creative people should be allowed to do what they wish with their creations), but apply it in the way the narrative pushes(every game that doesn't look like its cast is from a 2003 Xbox exclusive is being forced to be that way). So when you say something you're sure is totally mild and uncontroversial, you are unwittingly stepping into a stupid battleground nobody wants to be part of.

 

[Ainkrip]

Ah yes. We have ample archeological evidence supporting the fact that no Targaryen was ever black. We can find it currently on the British Museum, although The Seven Kingdoms are trying to get it back.

Their whole point is incest, purity etc. They would never mix with some black dude. It never happened in the books as well.

 

[Liar]

What I meant by "forced" is when a long running series writing/theme (suddenly) turns a certain way because "things are not like the past" or "This is acceptable now" or "Let's join in the woke bandwagon".

I think there's a nuance to what you're saying. I agree that if you're adding a minority character, they shouldn't written to be tokens or as a stereotype. However, the best examples are always ones that go unnoticed because it just feels so natural thanks to the good writing. Meanwhile, people remember the bad examples because they're so clumsily written and start painting every 'woke' thing under the same brush.