Hachinan tte, Sore wa Nai Deshou! - Vol. 7 Ch. 36 - The Aftermath of Conquering the Underground Ruins
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2019
- Messages
- 3,869
Wow, they sure shot themselves in the foot
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2018
- Messages
- 928
They could just divide the treasure X% to the kingdom Y% to the team right? Then it wouldn’t break the bank
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2019
- Messages
- 1,132
@TheTanJar7
Firstly, they currently have no idea on the actual value of it all.
Secondly, even if they gave parts of what they found to the party, what would they give ?
The Dock, which they can't use?
The workshop, which they can't use?
The golems, which they have no use for?
The notes, which they have no use for ?
But if they give them nothing for that kind of discovery, who the hell would even want to stay in that nation and accept quests?
Basically, they have 3 things to do :
[ol]Calculate or estimate the value of it all
Figure out how much to actually pay the party so that anyone would want to do quests in the future
Pay it out in such amounts so that the economy can withstand it.[/ol]
Firstly, they currently have no idea on the actual value of it all.
Secondly, even if they gave parts of what they found to the party, what would they give ?
The Dock, which they can't use?
The workshop, which they can't use?
The golems, which they have no use for?
The notes, which they have no use for ?
But if they give them nothing for that kind of discovery, who the hell would even want to stay in that nation and accept quests?
Basically, they have 3 things to do :
[ol]Calculate or estimate the value of it all
Figure out how much to actually pay the party so that anyone would want to do quests in the future
Pay it out in such amounts so that the economy can withstand it.[/ol]
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2018
- Messages
- 5,716
@Genoshock
Masturbating the authors self insert, just like in every other isekai.
but this one has finally gotten stale and boring enough that its ok to drop.
Masturbating the authors self insert, just like in every other isekai.
but this one has finally gotten stale and boring enough that its ok to drop.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2018
- Messages
- 508
Now that we're done with a long and boring dungeon crawl, here's a chapter that talks about that long and boring dungeon crawl with none of the main characters present!
Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2019
- Messages
- 28
Is it just me or that finance minister is retarded?
I mean they said that the relationship was already bad and the involvement of the nobility with the guild was already frowned upon, so taking away their cut undermines any future trust between the two parties.
Also their cut is not from the treasure, but from the adventurers' pay, so i don't understand why's the big fuss about it, other then because of the already bad relationship, and they just don't want to pay for the guild out of spite.
Also how can he be a financial minister and question the 20% cut of the guild?
I mean, if it's like in any generic isekai, then the guild built up, manages and maintains a system that conduct any and all commissioner-adventurer business and relationship, and documents it all.
Not to mention they probably provide countless other services to adventurers.
I'd understand if he said that the 20% cut is a bit of a reach from the guild's part, but saying that they do nothing, is straight up dumb and ignorant.
Ugh, I feel like sometimes the weirdest things trigger me…
I mean they said that the relationship was already bad and the involvement of the nobility with the guild was already frowned upon, so taking away their cut undermines any future trust between the two parties.
Also their cut is not from the treasure, but from the adventurers' pay, so i don't understand why's the big fuss about it, other then because of the already bad relationship, and they just don't want to pay for the guild out of spite.
Also how can he be a financial minister and question the 20% cut of the guild?
I mean, if it's like in any generic isekai, then the guild built up, manages and maintains a system that conduct any and all commissioner-adventurer business and relationship, and documents it all.
Not to mention they probably provide countless other services to adventurers.
I'd understand if he said that the 20% cut is a bit of a reach from the guild's part, but saying that they do nothing, is straight up dumb and ignorant.
Ugh, I feel like sometimes the weirdest things trigger me…
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2018
- Messages
- 11,409
wait...i forgot who's Ringstat again
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2018
- Messages
- 45
@DsfSebo
I think there's some nuance that isn't coming through so well, the chapter still reads weirdly to me after going through it several times.
It's not that they don't want the involvement of the nobility at all, or they probably wouldn't have accepted MC and company as adventurers in the first place. They just don't want decision making within the guild to be influenced by politics.
The guild's cut would be from the adventurers' pay, which they're saying here is based on the value of what was discovered ("we'll have to pay the lad an estimated amount for those"). Large payments bring more scrutiny as a matter of course: "Did the guild's actions regarding this mission warrant their usual cut from these rewards?" As Luknar said here: "The governmental fee this time is a special case..."
....Keep in mind that two previous exploration attempts failed, with 2 groups totaling 11 people and 3 groups totaling 14 people respectively, and this time they assigned the mission to a single newly-registered group of 5 people. Even though, as you suggest, they probably provide other services, we don't see any of them offered to this new party.
All of that being said, it'd have been nice if things were stated more clearly, but I'd be surprised if it was crystal clear in the original language in the first place.
I think there's some nuance that isn't coming through so well, the chapter still reads weirdly to me after going through it several times.
It's not that they don't want the involvement of the nobility at all, or they probably wouldn't have accepted MC and company as adventurers in the first place. They just don't want decision making within the guild to be influenced by politics.
The guild's cut would be from the adventurers' pay, which they're saying here is based on the value of what was discovered ("we'll have to pay the lad an estimated amount for those"). Large payments bring more scrutiny as a matter of course: "Did the guild's actions regarding this mission warrant their usual cut from these rewards?" As Luknar said here: "The governmental fee this time is a special case..."
....Keep in mind that two previous exploration attempts failed, with 2 groups totaling 11 people and 3 groups totaling 14 people respectively, and this time they assigned the mission to a single newly-registered group of 5 people. Even though, as you suggest, they probably provide other services, we don't see any of them offered to this new party.
All of that being said, it'd have been nice if things were stated more clearly, but I'd be surprised if it was crystal clear in the original language in the first place.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2019
- Messages
- 485
I think they got the zero% because the party who found it was supposedly should have died due the guild being influenced by politics and or lack of judgement cause even after all other parties got wiped out they still sent rookies and retirees. Nobles to boot.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 18,204
@Robbini How do you know the MC would have no use for the stuff and facilities? Seems to me they would be of much higher use than money, which the MC most definitely isn't lacking at all. The stuff found, however, is something money can't buy. That even leads to another problem: Since it's stuff money can't buy, it has no particular defined market value. The sum paid to the MC would thus be arbitrary. 11 out of 10 governments would in such a case pay a pittance for it. The filthy rich MC would thus get candy money for priceless stuff. But then again, I wasn't expecting him to get anything at all (unless he simply took it for himself from the treasures), so what this chapter revealed is already above my expectations.
What the MC should tell those dudes is that he doesn't need any monetary compensation, he just wants to select something from the loot on his own. However, since the MC is a flesh golem incapable of thinking for himself, he obviously won't say anything and allows others to make all the decisions for him.
What the MC should tell those dudes is that he doesn't need any monetary compensation, he just wants to select something from the loot on his own. However, since the MC is a flesh golem incapable of thinking for himself, he obviously won't say anything and allows others to make all the decisions for him.
Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2019
- Messages
- 28
@Gameruru
I actually went back looking how they accepted the quest, cus it was a long ass time ago and the guild/king assigned the quest to Brantark and not to a new party, and he invited them as "escort" (knowing the previous 2 expeditions died).
Also, the 2nd expedition was supposedly composed of the "Most outstanding, proudest warriors of the time.", tho they say that the threat that killed them all is supposedly a dragon, that can be taken care of with only a single intermediate level mage.
@Jadian
That may be true, but Brantark says the guild was opposed to him instructing the party because he was taking orders from the king/nobles, and that doesn't have to do anything with decision making within the guild. (At best monitoring it/the guild haveing less influence on the party)
I don't agree, Luknar also said it was agreed upon beforehand that the guild takes a 20% cut.
Also, you just can't do business like that, you can't just not pay the promised amount and call it a day, there'll be noone doing business with them, tho we're talking about the king here, his reputation would/should still take a considerable amount of damage from this.
As I wrote at the beginning the task was assigned to Brantark alone, not to their party, also from what I understand he's supposedly alone stronger then the previous expeditions.
Also while yes we didn't see anything provided to the party, it's literally them in the guild registering and in the next scene they are walking into the dungeon for the quest.
Tho I only supposed that the guild does anything at all, we know almost nothing about the guild.
My fear is that these things wasn't clear because they wasn't properly thought trough by the author.
Also, based on how Branstark comments on the guild representatives as being spineless, these plot points probably won't have any further consequences. (except the petty noble drama)
I actually went back looking how they accepted the quest, cus it was a long ass time ago and the guild/king assigned the quest to Brantark and not to a new party, and he invited them as "escort" (knowing the previous 2 expeditions died).
Also, the 2nd expedition was supposedly composed of the "Most outstanding, proudest warriors of the time.", tho they say that the threat that killed them all is supposedly a dragon, that can be taken care of with only a single intermediate level mage.
@Jadian
That may be true, but Brantark says the guild was opposed to him instructing the party because he was taking orders from the king/nobles, and that doesn't have to do anything with decision making within the guild. (At best monitoring it/the guild haveing less influence on the party)
I don't agree, Luknar also said it was agreed upon beforehand that the guild takes a 20% cut.
Also, you just can't do business like that, you can't just not pay the promised amount and call it a day, there'll be noone doing business with them, tho we're talking about the king here, his reputation would/should still take a considerable amount of damage from this.
As I wrote at the beginning the task was assigned to Brantark alone, not to their party, also from what I understand he's supposedly alone stronger then the previous expeditions.
Also while yes we didn't see anything provided to the party, it's literally them in the guild registering and in the next scene they are walking into the dungeon for the quest.
Tho I only supposed that the guild does anything at all, we know almost nothing about the guild.
My fear is that these things wasn't clear because they wasn't properly thought trough by the author.
Also, based on how Branstark comments on the guild representatives as being spineless, these plot points probably won't have any further consequences. (except the petty noble drama)
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2019
- Messages
- 1,132
@Kaarme
Let's say they kept the dock and ships.
Do they have personnel to use them, connections to recruit them from , reasons to keep them and some way of actually using the ships without any connections to use routes inbetween?
Let's say he has some of those, does he have any interest in it?
Let's say he does, would the nation actually allow it ? Letting one noble control a large airfleet and an airport near the capitol ?
Let's say they do, would the other nobles think him to be way more of an upstart then and try to cause more trouble for him?
So yes. He could maaaaaybe keep the ships and dock. To maybe make some money at the cost of being hated by many other nobles or the nobility in general. Which you already mentioned he doesn't care much about.
As for the workshop, he currently has no needs, interest or reason to use it.
The golems ? Allowing one noble to control a golem army, especially at his young age ? There would be a lot of people who would be annoyed, jealous and afraid of him, especially in connection with the dock and ships, if he became angry, he could rebel and send that army out towards the capitol very quickly, meaning he would seriously became a possible destabilization factor.
The notes ? He's no researcher, and he hasn't shown any interest in becoming one yet, so unnecessary.
As for paying him a pittance... are they idiots ? Do that, and within a few years they will move to the neighboring empire or leave on their own never supporting the nation again.
And what of when that knowledge becomes public ? Who the hell would ever accept designated quests or exploration quests from the guild or nobility again ? And even if they do, why in the nine hells would they accurately report their findings, when there's history of the greatest find ever not being rewarded properly, and they could just instead report little findings and either pocket or sell the actual findings on the black market, which might become another destabilizing element if there are dangerous artifacts found.
So sure, they could pay a pittance and save money in the short-term. At the cost of much of their credibility, a large chunk of loyalty amongst the adventurers, the likely desertion of one of their currently strongest magicians (and still becoming stronger) and instability due to future artifacts being unknown to the authorities in the long-term. Choice?
That being said...
And the increase loyalty & morale for actually paying what it's worth would go a long way to boosting the adventurer profession's attitude towards the nation and thus lead to increased efforts by the adventurers, which would improvethe financial system.
Let's say they kept the dock and ships.
Do they have personnel to use them, connections to recruit them from , reasons to keep them and some way of actually using the ships without any connections to use routes inbetween?
Let's say he has some of those, does he have any interest in it?
Let's say he does, would the nation actually allow it ? Letting one noble control a large airfleet and an airport near the capitol ?
Let's say they do, would the other nobles think him to be way more of an upstart then and try to cause more trouble for him?
So yes. He could maaaaaybe keep the ships and dock. To maybe make some money at the cost of being hated by many other nobles or the nobility in general. Which you already mentioned he doesn't care much about.
As for the workshop, he currently has no needs, interest or reason to use it.
The golems ? Allowing one noble to control a golem army, especially at his young age ? There would be a lot of people who would be annoyed, jealous and afraid of him, especially in connection with the dock and ships, if he became angry, he could rebel and send that army out towards the capitol very quickly, meaning he would seriously became a possible destabilization factor.
The notes ? He's no researcher, and he hasn't shown any interest in becoming one yet, so unnecessary.
As for paying him a pittance... are they idiots ? Do that, and within a few years they will move to the neighboring empire or leave on their own never supporting the nation again.
And what of when that knowledge becomes public ? Who the hell would ever accept designated quests or exploration quests from the guild or nobility again ? And even if they do, why in the nine hells would they accurately report their findings, when there's history of the greatest find ever not being rewarded properly, and they could just instead report little findings and either pocket or sell the actual findings on the black market, which might become another destabilizing element if there are dangerous artifacts found.
So sure, they could pay a pittance and save money in the short-term. At the cost of much of their credibility, a large chunk of loyalty amongst the adventurers, the likely desertion of one of their currently strongest magicians (and still becoming stronger) and instability due to future artifacts being unknown to the authorities in the long-term. Choice?
That being said...
considering the other reasons to make sure the MC has enough money to to effectively colonize the south would within time return the money over time.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 18,204
@Robbini The MC is still young. Unless he's going to waste all of his life gathering a harem and entertaining the girls, drinking and doing drugs, he should become a proper magician and get interested in notes, research, workshos, and such. I admit running the dock and the ship might be more trouble than worth unless he has real interest in such things. The same goes for the golems.
The financial minister just said reimbursing for the stuff found would hurt the nation's finances. Then they went forward to tell the guild to suck it up and accept not receiving anything. Kind of difficult to miss the trend here. The point is that the MC already has all the money he needs, if he's not planning to become a wastrel, so unless they paid him an astronomical sum, which they don't want to do, it won't mean much to the MC and will only be symbolic. Of course you could be correct and they will empty nation's coffers to stay on the MC's good side, but as far as I look at the big picture, it's totally unnecessary.
@DsfSebo
Welcome to an absolute monarchy!
The financial minister just said reimbursing for the stuff found would hurt the nation's finances. Then they went forward to tell the guild to suck it up and accept not receiving anything. Kind of difficult to miss the trend here. The point is that the MC already has all the money he needs, if he's not planning to become a wastrel, so unless they paid him an astronomical sum, which they don't want to do, it won't mean much to the MC and will only be symbolic. Of course you could be correct and they will empty nation's coffers to stay on the MC's good side, but as far as I look at the big picture, it's totally unnecessary.
@DsfSebo
Welcome to an absolute monarchy!
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2019
- Messages
- 1,132
@Kaarme
Basically, the MC has 3 different statuses which currently work well together.
1. Adventurer
2. Leader of his own Noble Household
3. Magician
As for the guild... in this situation they pretty much did jacksquat for MC's party, and it was very lucky that they actually survived due to the members of the party (think it was mentioned in the novel that they had actually planned for a novice swordsman to be the veteran guide, so Brantark just decided to replace him). And well, paying 20% of that amazing discovery to them... let's say it just irks a lot of people due to their lack of actual contributions.
Let's say they pay them a large sum immediately (no reason they have to do it immediately though). Pretty quickly, they would be able to put the entire fleet and dock into usage, and those new ships would vastly increase the traffic and financial flow throughout the nation. The notes could be used by researchers, which could lead to discoveries. The workshops could be used in research or production, which would boost the economy. The golems themselves are very valuable, made of refined metal, especially the two dragon golems. So they would even have a scrap value if things go that far, but they would be way more valuble for research on how to produce more or just how to maintain those they just got. Think about it. An army of over 10k metal golems, with no problems in morale, loyalty, logistics and other things related to humanoids. Assuming that war doesn't start with their neighbors, if the royalty has that army, it would provide a safety guarantee against a rebellion. But not having it, would either make a rebellion easier to happen or be used as a pretext for someone to deal with the one controlling them as them plotting for a rebellion.
So, financially they might be making a loss, especially if they give the entire reward in one go, atleast short-term. But long-term, the gains will likely be larger financially, and then militarily, scientifically and for their stability, they will be making gains.
Basically, the MC has 3 different statuses which currently work well together.
1. Adventurer
2. Leader of his own Noble Household
3. Magician
As for the guild... in this situation they pretty much did jacksquat for MC's party, and it was very lucky that they actually survived due to the members of the party (think it was mentioned in the novel that they had actually planned for a novice swordsman to be the veteran guide, so Brantark just decided to replace him). And well, paying 20% of that amazing discovery to them... let's say it just irks a lot of people due to their lack of actual contributions.
Let's say they pay them a large sum immediately (no reason they have to do it immediately though). Pretty quickly, they would be able to put the entire fleet and dock into usage, and those new ships would vastly increase the traffic and financial flow throughout the nation. The notes could be used by researchers, which could lead to discoveries. The workshops could be used in research or production, which would boost the economy. The golems themselves are very valuable, made of refined metal, especially the two dragon golems. So they would even have a scrap value if things go that far, but they would be way more valuble for research on how to produce more or just how to maintain those they just got. Think about it. An army of over 10k metal golems, with no problems in morale, loyalty, logistics and other things related to humanoids. Assuming that war doesn't start with their neighbors, if the royalty has that army, it would provide a safety guarantee against a rebellion. But not having it, would either make a rebellion easier to happen or be used as a pretext for someone to deal with the one controlling them as them plotting for a rebellion.
So, financially they might be making a loss, especially if they give the entire reward in one go, atleast short-term. But long-term, the gains will likely be larger financially, and then militarily, scientifically and for their stability, they will be making gains.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 18,204
@Robbini You have some excellent points there, from the nation's pov. If they could make the MC agree to 10 smaller payments, spread over 10 years, instead of all at once, it would also mean the MC would patiently wait for 10 years without disappearing anywhere.
Nevertheless, from the MC's point of view, I still very much think he shouldn't settle for money alone. If he does, I hope he uses the money for strategic investments.
Nevertheless, from the MC's point of view, I still very much think he shouldn't settle for money alone. If he does, I hope he uses the money for strategic investments.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 1,072
While the comments seem to be an interesting discussion on the economics and political advantages and disadvantages the newly discovered ancient research and magic tools created by this famous magician have caused but, I just can't read all of this. Also, who is this famous magician? I haven't been reading this for a while, like 7 months or something, so I don't remember him being mentioned before, and I don't really want to go back and read the 30-ish chapters I read before yesterday.
Similar threads
